What is the point of the grenadier?

[Scobee Doe]

The grenadier has the same traits as the guard except the guard has more so what is the point of the grenadier?

[Rewan]

i belive that as of this moment the grenadier is a place holder. there will be some changes to the class at some point.

[MiSFiT77]

The Grenadier does the same as the Infantry but in a spiffier uniform.

[Obed Marsh]

Yeah they should make all clases distinguish themselves. Grenadiers should have bonus in melee. Carpenters should be able to construct something etc...

[Rewan]

@zbynek that is the future plane mate

[WesternCitizen]

Zbynek původně napsal:

Yeah they should make all clases distinguish themselves. Grenadiers should have bonus in melee. Carpenters should be able to construct something etc...

I agree.

But why melee, grenadiers weren't the ultimate melee unit, from what I know they were using explosives such as grenades and due their physical strength ( only the strongest could become grenadiers ) they were storming positions as well. I would even change their appearance to be honest.

[Bertrand Sawa]

sudomaster404 původně napsal:

But why melee, grenadiers weren't the ultimate melee unit, from what I know they were using explosives such as grenades and due their physical strength ( only the strongest could become grenadiers ) they were storming positions as well. I would even change their appearance to be honest.

Grenadiers using grenades in 18/19th centuries???

Is it really to hard to look even on good plain Wikipedia to read about them?

"Grenade usage declined significantly in the early 18th century, a fact that can be attributed to the improved effectiveness of massive infantry line tactics and flintlock technology. However, the need for elite assault troops remained, and the existing grenadier companies were used for this purpose. As noted, above average physical size had been considered important for the original grenadiers and, in principle, height and strength remained the basis of selection for these picked companies."

[WesternCitizen]

rin9 původně napsal:

sudomaster404 původně napsal:

But why melee, grenadiers weren't the ultimate melee unit, from what I know they were using explosives such as grenades and due their physical strength ( only the strongest could become grenadiers ) they were storming positions as well. I would even change their appearance to be honest.

Grenadiers using grenades in 18/19th centuries???

Is it really to hard to look even on good plain Wikipedia to read about them?

"Grenade usage declined significantly in the early 18th century, a fact that can be attributed to the improved effectiveness of massive infantry line tactics and flintlock technology. However, the need for elite assault troops remained, and the existing grenadier companies were used for this purpose. As noted, above average physical size had been considered important for the original grenadiers and, in principle, height and strength remained the basis of selection for these picked companies."

Maybe you should follow your own advise! They did use grenades back then, but it's obvious that these worked differently, in fact just burning the wire, throw and wait!

Not sure what your problem is, you obviously have comprehension issues.

[Horcerer]

sudomaster404 původně napsal:

rin9 původně napsal:

Grenadiers using grenades in 18/19th centuries???

Is it really to hard to look even on good plain Wikipedia to read about them?

"Grenade usage declined significantly in the early 18th century, a fact that can be attributed to the improved effectiveness of massive infantry line tactics and flintlock technology. However, the need for elite assault troops remained, and the existing grenadier companies were used for this purpose. As noted, above average physical size had been considered important for the original grenadiers and, in principle, height and strength remained the basis of selection for these picked companies."

Maybe you should follow your own advise! They did use grenades back then, but it's obvious that these worked differently, in fact just burning the wire, throw and wait!

Not sure what your problem is, you obviously have comprehension issues.

Grenadiers in the napoleonic wars did not use grenades. Grenades were only used in naval warfare at the time.

[Bertrand Sawa]

sudomaster404 původně napsal:

Maybe you should follow your own advise! They did use grenades back then, but it's obvious that these worked differently, in fact just burning the wire, throw and wait!

Not sure what your problem is, you obviously have comprehension issues.

Sorry, but i dont understand your answer.
It is obvious that grenades were in use in those times, but they were not used by grenadiers as their common weapon.
It is really sad that you could not even invest 5 minute to read short article in wikipedia...
Especially when you disagree with with Zbyneks post about melee bonus for grenadiers. When as is common knowledge that greandiers were:

"Grenade usage declined significantly in the early 18th century, a fact that can be attributed to the improved effectiveness of massive infantry line tactics and flintlock technology. However, the need for elite assault troops remained, and the existing grenadier companies were used for this purpose. As noted, above average physical size had been considered important for the original grenadiers and, in principle, height and strength remained the basis of selection for these picked companies."

So what kind of bonus should have bunch of strongest and largest soldiers?

[MiSFiT77]

rin9 původně napsal:

sudomaster404 původně napsal:

Maybe you should follow your own advise! They did use grenades back then, but it's obvious that these worked differently, in fact just burning the wire, throw and wait!

Not sure what your problem is, you obviously have comprehension issues.

Sorry, but i dont understand your answer.
It is obvious that grenades were in use in those times, but they were not used by grenadiers as their common weapon.
It is really sad that you could not even invest 5 minute to read short article in wikipedia...
Especially when you disagree with with Zbyneks post about melee bonus for grenadiers. When as is common knowledge that greandiers were:

"Grenade usage declined significantly in the early 18th century, a fact that can be attributed to the improved effectiveness of massive infantry line tactics and flintlock technology. However, the need for elite assault troops remained, and the existing grenadier companies were used for this purpose. As noted, above average physical size had been considered important for the original grenadiers and, in principle, height and strength remained the basis of selection for these picked companies."

So what kind of bonus should have bunch of strongest and largest soldiers?

Extra rations ? bigger shoes ? First pick of the prostitues ? Like you and a few ppl have been saying Grenadiers (and guards) where defined by their physical stature and prowess rather than by what they carried with them. Grenadiers and Guards where (and still are in many cases) the troops you send in when things are going to get close up and physical. They are the guys you want your smaller men following in to a fight and the last ones you want to see running. Napoleon lost Waterloo when the Old Guard broke, the French had never seen this before and the entire army collapsed and hid in a bush as the Old Guard ran and cried for their mothers. When your biggest toughest soldiers are kicking arse the rest of the army will follow, when they run, you've lost. I don't care if the Grenadiers had grenades or not because they where much more than that.

[Horcerer]

MiSFiT77 původně napsal:

rin9 původně napsal:

Sorry, but i dont understand your answer.
It is obvious that grenades were in use in those times, but they were not used by grenadiers as their common weapon.
It is really sad that you could not even invest 5 minute to read short article in wikipedia...
Especially when you disagree with with Zbyneks post about melee bonus for grenadiers. When as is common knowledge that greandiers were:

"Grenade usage declined significantly in the early 18th century, a fact that can be attributed to the improved effectiveness of massive infantry line tactics and flintlock technology. However, the need for elite assault troops remained, and the existing grenadier companies were used for this purpose. As noted, above average physical size had been considered important for the original grenadiers and, in principle, height and strength remained the basis of selection for these picked companies."

So what kind of bonus should have bunch of strongest and largest soldiers?

Napoleon lost Waterloo when the Old Guard broke, the French had never seen this before and the entire army collapsed and hid in a bush as the Old Guard ran and cried for their mothers.

The Old Guard didn't break. The army was already retreating and the Old Guard was simply holding off the British and Prussians while it retreated.

[MiSFiT77]

Horcerer původně napsal:

MiSFiT77 původně napsal:

Napoleon lost Waterloo when the Old Guard broke, the French had never seen this before and the entire army collapsed and hid in a bush as the Old Guard ran and cried for their mothers.

The Old Guard didn't break. The army was already retreating and the Old Guard was simply holding off the British and Prussians while it retreated.

Depends which account of the battle you read

"A devastating volley tore into the ranks of the advancing Old Guard like a scythe. French soldiers fell in heaps, and flanking fire intensified. In seconds, the 1st Foot Guards took advantage of the shock effect, charging directly into Napoleon’s Old Guard with fixed bayonets. The soldiers of the 52nd Foot moved to the right and smartly down the side of the ridge, then wheeled to their left and poured heavy flanking fire into the enemy. The Old Guard tried to deploy to no avail, wavered, broke, and fled in disorder back to Napoleon, who waited at La Belle Alliance."

There is also a reference to the old guard breaking in the film Waterloo.

And


" The shocked French soldiers watching the attack from all around the battlefield agonizingly shouted the never before heard cry of "La Garde recule!" "The Guard is retreating!"

But to be honest thats all just nitpicking over one word. The point was that the Guards and Grenadiers where big tough guys who had a physical influence over the rest of the troops (and their enemy) when they where beaten (and the old guard where beaten) that influence disipated. Furthermore this entire thread was about "what is the point of the Grenadier" and then became a discussion about physicality of larger men on the battlefield and how that physicality could be translated into Holdfast.