New Malaise system feedback

[rockman_97]

So, at first glance it seemed like an interesting idea. Much better than the original iteration where you could avoid being infected entirely by simply not getting hit, which was something that you had to do anyway because on higher difficulties you never really afforded getting hit too many times. In practice however, this current Malaise system really doesn't work with the current mechanics and balance of Dead Cells.

The Malaise bar constantly rises, even after supposedly clearing out the majority of the enemies in an area. No matter how fast you play, eventually it gets to a point where it's outright impossible to avoid the higher tiers of Malaise.
To make matters worse, the random spawning of enemies (which can be picked from any biome) and random elites which give absolutely no meaningful reward won't always work with the current situation you're in.
The elites themselves are the biggest problem due to their extra effect that could potentially lead to cheap hits just because one happened to appear out of nowhere.
Currently only flasks, a very limited resource of healing in 4BC and 5BC are the most effective way of clearing the bar. Killing elites also drop it by a tiny amount but it won't really help in the long term as the Malaise tier will rise back up shortly after.

Now, this new system could still work given that one or more of the following changes are implemented:
-Upon clearing the infection from the area the bar should also reset completely, drop by a certain percentage or at the very least make it so it doesn't continue rising even after clearing the infection
-Offer more ways to clear the Malaise bar at a fixed rate, such as eating food that's not infected and killing regular enemies. Having an active speed buff while killing enemies could also decrease it at a slightly higher rate.
-Change how the elites work. Currently they're just regular enemies with a larger sprite and an effect that seldom meshes well with the current enemies. This kind of elites was never really fun to deal with but now the current Malaise system further cements that elites are in a dire need of a rework. Instead of trying to add a new attack or effect, consider taking already existing attacks and try to change them up a little bit.
-Make enemies turn into elites at higher tiers. Currently you can see that happen as early as tier 3 or pretty close. Point is, enemies turning into elites happens way too early,
-Spawning enemies should be picked ONLY from the current biome. Random enemies from any biome completely ruins the idea of choosing your path and some enemies really don't mesh well with certain biomes, leading to some awkward encounters or straight up broken enemies.

[rockman_97]

Random enemies spawning is fine. I just think the game should not spawn enemies from other biomes. Yeeters don't really work outside of the Arboretum where they have their mushroom bois and the spiked walls. And like I said, having random enemies from other biomes spawn in the one you're currently exploring completely negates the whole idea of choosing your path.

Enemies that become elites also gain a random elite ability like the green crystal or the electric cage. The only thing different about these elites is that they don't give any reward an elite normally does. By that I mean no extra amount of cells and no chance of getting a weapon or active item.

I am aware of the Frenzy mutation but that doesn't really count as another way to decrease the Malaise bar given that it's there just to refill your flask. If I'm given the choice of 3 max mutations per run, I would very much prefer to make use of whatever 3 mutations I want. Having to always sacrifice a slot for Frenzy just to keep the bar at comfortable levels is limiting build variety needlessly and I should stress out that making more dual color items single color in this update is already limiting enough.

[Leviathan]

Originally posted by Mediocre Dunce:

malaise should not be rising once you clear out most (90% I think) of the enemies in an area. If it is it's a bug or something.

Not necessarily. I have gotten the malaise cleared in a biome, then I start exploring, and everything is fine. No malaise increase.

Then I enter into a room with enemies and malaise starts increasing again. After I kill most of the enemies in the room it the malaise cleared message appears again. I'm not sure that message reduces the malaise, tho.

Originally posted by Mediocre Dunce:

or wait, do those particular Elites have elite effects? I thought they didn't but i thought I just fought that did. I don't know.

Not sure. I may be lying if I say they have effects, but I think that's the case.

Originally posted by Mediocre Dunce:

Random enemies is good I think because well, it's a roguelite.

Yes, and, seriously, no. You don't want rng in a game to be a cheap way of increasing difficulty. It being a roguelike or not. When you enter the shop or drop something it's okay, since you can reroll, there are multiple weapon choices, and you can think for a while on how to adapt to not getting what you need. Ultimately you can choose custom mode and reduce the randomness to something you can manage (like the 20 items you like the best). Something appearing while you're about to attack an elite is just dumb.

Being able to control the randomness or make up for it is also what a roguelike is about. That's why things like Merchandise Categories, the Advanced Forge and the Legendary Forge are there.

Originally posted by rockman_97:

-Upon clearing the infection from the area the bar should also reset completely, drop by a certain percentage or at the very least make it so it doesn't continue rising even after clearing the infection
-Offer more ways to clear the Malaise bar at a fixed rate, such as eating food that's not infected and killing regular enemies. Having an active speed buff while killing enemies could also decrease it at a slightly higher rate.

The bar actually drops upon clearing the infection. That's how it is supposed to work. Otherwise it's a glitch. Also killing regular enemies reduces the bar a little (not too fast but it's noticeable if you can watch the bar while you fight, which is not something I usually do), and killing elites reduces the bar almost 1 tier (not sure if converted elites reduces it too, but I think it does).

[travistotle]

Yo guys, I'm glad that everyone is very explicitly sharing their thoughts on the changes, I happen to agree with a lot of the points made. But if you really are voicing these opinions because you want them to be taken into account by the developers, TAKE THEM TO THE DEAD CELL SUBREDDIT! There is an official Alpha feedback thread that was posted by Motion Twins themselves; if you really want the dev team to hear your voice in what you like and don't like, the feedback thread that they themselves started would probably be the best place.

There's no guarantee that the devs are looking through individual threads on the Steam forums, in fact, posters have noted that feedback threads here largely went ignored. While there's no guarantee that they're going to read each individual post, their own Reddit thread is much more likely to catch their eyes and have a chance at getting your feedback noticed. Also, post in French if you can, apparently Motion Twin prioritizes French replies.

[Enoby]

Not necessarily. I have gotten the malaise cleared in a biome, then I start exploring, and everything is fine. No malaise increase.

Then I enter into a room with enemies and malaise starts increasing again. After I kill most of the enemies in the room it the malaise cleared message appears again. I'm not sure that message reduces the malaise, tho.

- "Infection cleared" is counted separately for rooms. So like, if you clear infection from the level but enter a door with enemies malaise will go up until you kill most of the enemies in that room.

Not sure. I may be lying if I say they have effects, but I think that's the case.

- Yeah, I'm pretty sure they don't. That would be ridiculous.

Yes, and, seriously, no. You don't want rng in a game to be a cheap way of increasing difficulty. It being a roguelike or not. When you enter the shop or drop something it's okay, since you can reroll, there are multiple weapon choices, and you can think for a while on how to adapt to not getting what you need. Ultimately you can choose custom mode and reduce the randomness to something you can manage (like the 20 items you like the best). Something appearing while you're about to attack an elite is just dumb.

Being able to control the randomness or make up for it is also what a roguelike is about. That's why things like Merchandise Categories, the Advanced Forge and the Legendary Forge are there

- I think it's still fine. elites are just something to treat more carefully now, which is what you should have been doing before. If there is concern an enemy might spawn during an elite fight, wait a bit near an Elite so that right before you fight them you kill the enemy spawn.