So is malaise rework basically killing the slow playstyles?

[MaxBedlam]

Apparently coming next update the malaise bar will no longer fill from getting hit, but will continuously fill up as you play. So instead of punishing you for getting hit the game is going to punish you just for daring to play it, which is quite a bs way to go about this.

Furthermore higher malaise will increase enemy damage, movement and detection speed.

All of that together seems like developers want to kill slow playstyles and force everyone to play fast which will probably make me not want to bother with this game anymore.

[travistotle]

I was of a "wait and see" mindset when I read about the new malaise mechanic to keep an open mind about. Now that I've been able to try it out in the alpha... I kinda hate it. It's absolutely true, it DOES force you to play fast as you don't want the malaise bar to keep filling up, since new enemies and elites will keep spawning in until you clear the infection. Apparently the previous malaise system wasn't popular (?) but I never had a problem with it. At least previously malaise was a punishment for making a mistake and getting hit; now I can be playing perfectly and the malaise will still rise.

It seems like this new mechanic was introduced to reinforce the feeling that you're never safe until the biome is clear and they want you to play fast, which doesn't jive with me at all. When I play fast, I make mistakes. I understand that there were rewards for playing fast already with the timed doors, but at least previously playing fast was OPTIONAL, now it feels mandatory and I'm not a fan of that at all.

I'm really hoping Motion Twin takes this feedback into account quickly and can make some malaise changes by the next DLC. At least have the malaise start filling WHEN YOU GET HIT, not right away for absolutely no reason. I'd be interested in hearing others thoughts though, but I'm not feeling it so far.

[MaxBedlam]

This whole update feels like they just want to kill variety in the game. Not only forcing you to play fast but also lowering the amount of weapon combinations you can use due to color scaling change.

I don't know what to think, but I feel like I might end up hating the game after this patch and stop playing.

[travistotle]

Originally posted by MaxBedlam:

This whole update feels like they just want to kill variety in the game. Not only forcing you to play fast but also lowering the amount of weapon combinations you can use due to color scaling change.

I don't know what to think, but I feel like I might end up hating the game after this patch and stop playing.

Let's all calm down a little bit lol there's another major update coming in a few months, and Motion Twin seems to listen to the community a lot. I would imagine if enough people voice their displeasure over the new changes (and they already are) they'll be fixed pretty quickly.

It's not ALL bad: the new katana is supposed to be pretty dope, and I really like the new backpack change-up. On top of that, the new mutations which let you attack with the weapon you have in the backpack is pretty awesome; it almost makes it feel like you have a third weapon in the kit, which is really cool.

[DoppelGangster]

Braindead cells: the bad update DLC, where you either go fast and forget about your basic human needs because you'll be too busy mindlessly mashing your controller to clear the map or get swarmed by monsters like an alt-right post on twitter.

[kermat_]

Originally posted by travistotle:

there's another major update coming in a few months, and Motion Twin seems to listen to the community a lot. I would imagine if enough people voice their displeasure over the new changes (and they already are) they'll be fixed pretty quickly.

I would urge you to go through the reactions that were posted when update 1.9 came out.
Specifically, this thread with its 74 replies where multiple players voiced their complaints with the update and the replies to the official announcement when 1.9 arrived where one of the devs acknowledged the many complaints that were voiced there. There were more threads than that but those are the two big ones. Many complaints were voiced, very few of those have been addressed.

Having said that, when I browse through their feedback thread on reddit almost everyone is mostly optimistic with a few people explaining why they don't like certain aspects of the update. Whereas the Steam community is the only place where opinions are less positive. Well that and the Twitch community. This makes me wonder whether the game has changed so much that its audience has shifted completely.
Or maybe the devs listen to people whose opinions vary greatly from those here.

I am writing down my own opinions about the update to post them in the 2.1 alpha announcement (I don't want to use reddit). Whether they do anything with it is up to them, I'm not expecting them to cater to my tastes. But let me say these two things:
1) Throughout all of the latest patches where I've tried the alpha (1.5 and onward), the features in alpha mostly carried over to the live patch. I have never seen them releasing an alpha and saying "Well, that was a horrible idea" and completely undo that. This is why my concern is even bigger after having played this alpha.
2) In my honest and personal opinion there has been a downwards trend in how much fun it is to play Dead Cells since several (5 or 6) patches now. With every patch it feels like we're moving 2 steps forward and 3 steps back. Every patch has to change the meta of the game to make it feel "fresh" up to the point that I don't even know what game I'm playing by now. Again, I'm seeing many people like the changes so it might be just me.

As a side note: the game is being developed by Evil Empire while Motion Twin are working on their next game. It's not a huge difference, just that Evil Empire consists of 2 devs from MT who are working on updating Dead Cells. They used to be in the same office (no idea how they're working with the pandemic and all)

[OverRide]

Originally posted by kermat_:

Originally posted by travistotle:

there's another major update coming in a few months, and Motion Twin seems to listen to the community a lot. I would imagine if enough people voice their displeasure over the new changes (and they already are) they'll be fixed pretty quickly.

I would urge you to go through the reactions that were posted when update 1.9 came out.
Specifically, this thread with its 74 replies where multiple players voiced their complaints with the update and the replies to the official announcement when 1.9 arrived where one of the devs acknowledged the many complaints that were voiced there. There were more threads than that but those are the two big ones. Many complaints were voiced, very few of those have been addressed.

Having said that, when I browse through their feedback thread on reddit almost everyone is mostly optimistic with a few people explaining why they don't like certain aspects of the update. Whereas the Steam community is the only place where opinions are less positive. Well that and the Twitch community. This makes me wonder whether the game has changed so much that its audience has shifted completely.
Or maybe the devs listen to people whose opinions vary greatly from those here.

I am writing down my own opinions about the update to post them in the 2.1 alpha announcement (I don't want to use reddit). Whether they do anything with it is up to them, I'm not expecting them to cater to my tastes. But let me say these two things:
1) Throughout all of the latest patches where I've tried the alpha (1.5 and onward), the features in alpha mostly carried over to the live patch. I have never seen them releasing an alpha and saying "Well, that was a horrible idea" and completely undo that. This is why my concern is even bigger after having played this alpha.
2) In my honest and personal opinion there has been a downwards trend in how much fun it is to play Dead Cells since several (5 or 6) patches now. With every patch it feels like we're moving 2 steps forward and 3 steps back. Every patch has to change the meta of the game to make it feel "fresh" up to the point that I don't even know what game I'm playing by now. Again, I'm seeing many people like the changes so it might be just me.

As a side note: the game is being developed by Evil Empire while Motion Twin are working on their next game. It's not a huge difference, just that Evil Empire consists of 2 devs from MT who are working on updating Dead Cells. They used to be in the same office (no idea how they're working with the pandemic and all)

Agree. Feels like every update/patch is trying to make the game different, but not much playable. What's the point changing major things about the game without any serious "plan" about it? Community will tell you? Well... maybe, maybe not. Doesn't feel like things needs changing were addressed with recent updates.

I love Dead Cells, and love Motion Twin (Evil Empire), but when I see what was changed about my game is really sad. And doesn't feel like devs knows what they're doing either... With every major patch released, I don't want to launch game more and more... because IT'S NO FUN. Feels like a big downgrade in terms of gameplay/replayability. Which is what makes DC so fun in the first place??

[Gatebase]

You can always roll back. So far for me the game peaked around 1.8. Since then the weapon rework changed most of my preferred loadouts, the scroll rebalance made the game less fun in my opinion and now it seems my preferred playstyle (slow and methodical) is also on the chopping block. Really strange why they keep narrowing the viable strategies. I also played around 1.0 release and compared to 1.7/1.8 (when I returned) it seemed like the game had been hugely improved, making it more accessible and fun. Now they're going back in the other direction. A bit of a shame, but it's hard to be up in arms about the changes as long as they keep offering the old versions via the beta branches. If you don't like the changes, just don't play them.

I guess I mostly don't understand their motivation. What they're doing here reminds me a lot of what happens in competitive multiplayer games - devs endlessly tinkering with balance because the community always discovers some cheese or exploit or a certain meta takes over everything. And for a competitive multiplayer game those are really bad things. But Dead Cells is a singleplayer game. There's nothing wrong with some combos being overpowered or some playstyles being safer than others. Yes, one-handed crossbows combined with shields were overpowered. And you know what? That combo was awesome and really fun to play!

[MaxBedlam]

Originally posted by Gatebase:

You can always roll back. A bit of a shame, but it's hard to be up in arms about the changes as long as they keep offering the old versions via the beta branches. If you don't like the changes, just don't play them.

Oh cool, had no idea that's a thing since developers don't usually do that on steam.

Any idea does playing on older versions have any negatives like not being able to get achievements anymore or something?

[Cruduxy Pegg]

I think the Malaise is way overtuned in its current form [the moment you hit 3 bars it is way harder than everything in current live version]. The monster speed constantly change speed which is super annoying to reliably dodge\parry, I had a shielded skeleton spawn with EXTREME turn speed. fast enough that he could block attacks after his missed attack after turning against a super fast weapon (the daggers that crit every 3 attacks). Bosses also seem to get faster and faster and I don't think I want to see Time Keeper or Hand on a full bar.. well not when I am the one currently playing.

I can't even imagine trying to seriously get past areas with smokers or protectors with a slow weapon like scythes (5 BC). Running past monsters will just end up with some super sonic elite rampager \ huge horde of monsters ending your run.

[travistotle]

Originally posted by OverRide:

Originally posted by kermat_:

2) In my honest and personal opinion there has been a downwards trend in how much fun it is to play Dead Cells since several (5 or 6) patches now. With every patch it feels like we're moving 2 steps forward and 3 steps back. Every patch has to change the meta of the game to make it feel "fresh" up to the point that I don't even know what game I'm playing by now. Again, I'm seeing many people like the changes so it might be just me.

I love Dead Cells, and love Motion Twin (Evil Empire), but when I see what was changed about my game is really sad. And doesn't feel like devs knows what they're doing either... With every major patch released, I don't want to launch game more and more... because IT'S NO FUN. Feels like a big downgrade in terms of gameplay/replayability. Which is what makes DC so fun in the first place??

I definitely understand the frustration, it seems like they keep making major adjustments to keep the game feeling fresh, but at times if they're changing TOO much in an update it'll start feeling too different from the game you loved. It seems like most all of the changes (at least in this update) are changes that are making the game harder. I'm starting to wonder if that's because the dev team is playing the game over and over again, trying to find things to tweak, and because they're playing it constantly it's starting to feel naturally too easy for THEM. So therefore,they start making changes that adjust the core gameplay to make it harder. Problem is, not everyone is playing the game as frequently as they are, so not everyone is going to enjoy changes to the game that only make it harder or more tedious to play.

It seems kind of similar to what happened when Doom Eternal's DLC dropped a few months ago, and so many people were commenting on how brutally difficult it was, and how much of a jump in difficulty it was from the main campaign. Hugo's kind of let on in interviews that because his team has to play the game so much, they basically have to play it on Ultra Nightmare to feel even a smidge of challenge. That very well could have influenced them to make the new content so much harder, because the development team themselves were craving a greater challenge than what they were getting in the main game.

Point is, maybe Evil Empire is a little TOO closely attached to this game lately, and it's getting difficult for them to figure out changes that could make the most people happy, rather than just adding more challenge.

[zzenn]

This is annoying. Now I'll have to run cheat engine on the side, because the game is punishing me for playing how I like. There is _already_ incentive to move quickly, to get time locked rewards. The new malaise mechanic is just anti-fun. Just make it optional - so all those who enjoy the whip can get it, while the rest of us can have still have fun.

[MaxBedlam]

Originally posted by zzenn:

This is annoying. Now I'll have to run cheat engine on the side, because the game is punishing me for playing how I like. There is _already_ incentive to move quickly, to get time locked rewards. The new malaise mechanic is just anti-fun. Just make it optional - so all those who enjoy the whip can get it, while the rest of us can have still have fun.

As far as I'm aware the rewards for getting to timed doors and to doors that require XX amount of kills without being hit are the same. So currently the game rewards both fast and slow playstyles, but after the malaise change slow playstyle will probably no longer be viable.

[breversa]

Originally posted by MaxBedlam:

As far as I'm aware the rewards for getting to timed doors and to doors that require XX amount of kills without being hit are the same. So currently the game rewards both fast and slow playstyles, but after the malaise change slow playstyle will probably no longer be viable.

I wholeheartedly support your opinion.

I remember when Motion Twins added the timed bonus. I felt "Well, too bad I don't play fast, I'll never get this bonus". And since some blueprints were hidden behind timed doors, I had to set up for some "speedrun playthroughs" (which I didn't like) just to get them, then start anew with my slow and careful playstyle.

Then when Motion Twins added the "Kill X enemies without being hit" bonus, I thought "YES ! Now my slow & steady (tactical) playstyle is being rewarded as well ! Motion Twins REALLY care about their players playstyles ! They're awesome ! ^^".

And now, not only do they take the "slow" bonus back, but they even punish such a playstyle with more and more difficult enemies. It feels to me like "♥♥♥♥ you, slow players ! Now you gotta play the hard and fast way or stop having fun." :-( :-( :-(

[Sticky White Stuff]

I haven't played this game in some time, and this seems so FREAKING STUPID. I love to play slow and methodical most of the time. Unless i speedrun games. Of course, if i played a game multiple times, i can be faster. Like i don't know, Sekiro or Bloodborne? I can pretty much not even lit Bell/Statue until i am done with the first area. I don't even level weapons up until i have beaten the first major boss that holds me back, then i kick into normal mode. But this, this is beyond stupid. I already played pretty fast, but sometimes i just wanted to slow down a bit, explore everything, etc. There is already an in-game reward for playing fast. The timed doors. They serve as something that rewards you in a similar fashion if you played the slow way. You get cells either way. I don't know if i like this. I don't. Noita is also one of those games that is being changed constantly, but usually for the better. I mean, this won't stop me from buying the DLC and enjoying the game more. But still... This isn't freaking Ninja Gaiden, i don't play Dead Cells to play Ninja Gaiden. If i wanted to play super fast and sleek, i would just boot Ninja Gaiden Black and be done with it.

[Local Jerk]

Originally posted by GLUE:

I mean, this won't stop me from buying the DLC and enjoying the game more.

And that is why you'll keep being screwed over by bad devs your whole life.