"The game is too hard" Yeah, right...

[PySickle]

Opened up a new save slot and played through literally the entire game. Died in the last phase of the Watcher fight (after completing all the tentacle phases. This is supposed to be a rouge-like, and one can just finish the game from ground up with no previous gold and equipment.
Please don't get me wrong, I have no problem with people coming up with suggestions to improve the game or sharing their thoughts about the difficulty of the game. It is just that I have been seeing a lot of posts where people just complaining with no arguments or constructive criticism ("Toxic sewers is too hard" -Uhm, why exactly?, "Inquistor gives me GAMER RAGE" -Did you try rolling?)
Practice makes perfect and I feel like this is a major focus of rouge-likes. Expect to die a lot while learning the game, some of those deaths will be bad luck, some of them inexperience, and some of them imbalances. When it is because something was unfair, just say why you felt this way and either it will be fixed or someone will suggest you a way to deal with it and you will realize it was due to inexperience.

Two screenshots right before The Insufferable Crypt:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=965135402
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=965135480
The route had no options but for those curious it is Prison Cells-Promenade of the Condemned-Ramparts-Black Bridge-Fog Fjord-Graveyard-Insufferable Crypt.
I was able to purchase all scrolls from the shops, and unlocked 3 money doors (2 for scrolls 1 for a ice grenade). Also bought a Nutcracker at Ramparts and a Sturdy Shield at Graveyard (~14k). I unlocked oiled sword and fire grenade through blueprints after the Incomplete One.
Obviously you don't have to believe that was a 'from zero' run, but I was just messing around with resetting and this happened. I will be attempting this again, so I can hopefully provide a video as well.

Thanks for reading everyone, have nice runs.

Edit: Beaten it again from scratch with even worse lock with blueprints as well as entering the final fight with a curse. Will upload the video about tomorrow. Here are two screenshots after the fight:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=965313676
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=965313512

Edit: The video is finally here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/deadcells/comments/6lzhj2/darkness_patch_deathless_run_from_reset/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff035stbt9c
Took forever to edit & upload, so hope you enjoy.

[Nishven]

Just after i said i've never had a weapon on a elite, i got two out of 3 elites >< (and a wonderful nutcracker who saved me from dieing in the sepulchre ><)

[choovy]

How the ♥♥♥♥ did you find an oiled sword that does 2k damage, 100% damage on a burning target, a fire grenade, a normal grenade that also does 100% damage on a burning target, and a shield that makes enemies burn on death.

HOW THE HELL CAN YOU BE THAT LUCKY ON A RUN LIKE THAT?!?!?!

[PySickle]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kuku ~ Kun:

How the ♥♥♥♥ did you find an oiled sword that does 2k damage, 100% damage on a burning target, a fire grenade, a normal grenade that also does 100% damage on a burning target, and a shield that makes enemies burn on death.

HOW THE HELL CAN YOU BE THAT LUCKY ON A RUN LIKE THAT?!?!?!

Shield was useless other than the +1 Health (I bought it in Graveyard just for health).
Damages of the weapons have very little to do with your luck or weapon level. It mostly (almost entirely) depends on Strength points (Stats give exponentially increasing buffs).

Finding both oiled sword and fire grenade blueprints both in the same run was very lucky tho, fire sinergy was good too. I didn't finish that run tho, I finished the one with far far worse luck. Still trying to upload the video...

[PySickle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff035stbt9c
The run is finally here, took forever to edit and upload.
Check it out on reddit too:
https://www.reddit.com/r/deadcells/comments/6lzhj2/darkness_patch_deathless_run_from_reset/

[Pagan]

I feel that after logging 61 hours of playing experience, game is going to feel easy for you. I'm still struggling to get through the Old Sewers. But, I'm learning all yhe enemy's movesets and it's becoming easier and easier.

[PySickle]

You'll get way better, even with around ~20 hours. Gaining exp. is a part of this game, but all these people with 5 hours in the game are complaining about everything and call you a douche when you tell them to practice more.
Good luck.

[Guizmoyo]

Honestly i think its normal to think the game is easy after some few hours. You know all patterns, you know all mechanics. I dont have problem to buy all stat scroll + weapons in shop and the difficulty will come from the new level after the watcher fight i hope ^^

I completely agrea with your point of view and i think this patch is way better than the "elemental update" where you had an overflow of item gold and skills.

Now the most thing that kill me is the "edge combat action" , the edge waffle is horrible. i have some "one second freeze" , around 20 of them each run , kinda boring too.

Cheers.

[WereChicken]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von 4-zakken:

Honestly i think its normal to think the game is easy after some few hours. You know all patterns, you know all mechanics. I dont have problem to buy all stat scroll + weapons in shop and the difficulty will come from the new level after the watcher fight i hope ^^

I completely agrea with your point of view and i think this patch is way better than the "elemental update" where you had an overflow of item gold and skills.

Now the most thing that kill me is the "edge combat action" , the edge waffle is horrible. i have some "one second freeze" , around 20 of them each run , kinda boring too.

Cheers.

This is what annoys me when people moan about how dark souls 3 is too easy, after they've played 100+ hours of both dark souls 1 and 2. Of course it's going to feel easy to you after you've spent that long getting yourself familiar with that style of gameplay!

[sleepy_worm]

So I like this original post and think it's a good thing.

The developer seems to take time investment into account when judging the appropriacy of user feedback regarding gameplay meta-level. A new player complaining about what frustrates them means something different from a high end player doing the same. These two people could even be saying the same thing with the same words, but it means something different, and intelligent people with game design experience can probably navigate that particular maze.

Getting upset or crabby about it doesn't do the community any favors, so if you have any investment in the game, you should avoid over-stirring the pot. If you want to be good at the game and get recognized for it, you don't need to worry about how you send your message, but if you want to be an unofficial ombudsman, you absolutely need to check your tone constantly. It's very easy to do more harm than good defending someone else's product. I think the original poster did a fantastic job of presenting a counter-argument without getting nasty.

It's not a fair fight. People who have no interest in the game can use scorched earth tactics when you cannot. Negativity becomes a strategy. Thank you for making your case positively.

I live in a country where Reddit is blocked, so here is the youtube link if you are lazy and don't want to use workarounds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff035stbt9c

[ChaosSabre]

The problem with new changes is not that the game is harder it's more that the game is just way more boring for me since variety doesn't exist at all. Stat scroll purchase is always the best choice. No need to ever buy weapons if you can't afford them which you won't most of the time. I have unlocked hayabusa boots at the start of darkness beta after the watcher. Haven't seen them once since then. I got no clue if they are good or bad.
http://imgur.com/a/ropI2
My finishing build after the watcher fight pretty much all the time not picking up the gold bag. Usually rank 1-3 weapons that only dropped in first few stage and gear I can afford is usually at graveyard and it's most of the time something I don't want. And I obviously don't need it.
Shops used to be something to augment your run. Not something you need to hoard gold for to have some fun playing the game. As I want to show both sides of how a beggining player would feel compared to someone who can handle the game with somewhat decency.

[jods]

Congratulations for the winning run, it's easy to see that you have a lot of skill and you've maneuvered several tricky situations, like the elite pirate fight.

It's really nice to have this video, because it highlights the problems of the game as of Hello Darkness release.

It is not fun because you have no choice and no diversity, at least until very late in the game (fog fjord). Consider this:
- The game has not provided you a replacement sword at all! You still had the rusty sword at the end of the graveyard... damn!
- Until level 5 (fog fjord) shop items are "useless" as you always go for the upgrade and don't have money for anything else.
- You still had no skill at all until mid-level 3, where you found the grenade.
- Even with your excellent play, you objectively arrived under-powered at level 5.

Things get better at Fog fjord were you start having more money, more options.

But it's clear that up to this point the game is not well balanced.

When you have unlocked passive you start the game with more money and slightly better weapons and it helps, but still there are too few opportunities to switch gear.

[Franken Stein]

you have 61 hours in the game. That's, I think, 40 more than Destiny 1 had in content in singleplayer campaign. A new player wouldn't do that as they don't have 60+ ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hours in the game. This whole thread is pointless and stupid.

Edit: I only say this because the balance in the game is pretty much perfect as it is. Some stuff is stronger than others, granted but that should have to be carefully looked at and tweaked.

[PySickle]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Franken Stein:

you have 61 hours in the game. That's, I think, 40 more than Destiny 1 had in content in singleplayer campaign. A new player wouldn't do that as they don't have 60+ ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hours in the game. This whole thread is pointless and stupid.

Edit: I only say this because the balance in the game is pretty much perfect as it is. Some stuff is stronger than others, granted but that should have to be carefully looked at and tweaked.

I think you have a hard time understanding my OP, so it is really bold of you to just call it "pointless and stupid". I was saying that the balance of the game is fairly good as it is, unlike 50 other threads of people with 5 hours of gameplay saying it is impossible difficulty now. This post was meant to show that with experience, you get better at the game and it is part of the gameplay. Just because someone lost two runs in a row doesn't mean it is a bad game, it means they should learn from their mistakes.

It is funny how you say hte same thing as I do, yet call me names. In nowhere I said the game is "too easy". I only said it is not "too hard", meaning I thought it was mostly balanced.

[PySickle]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von jods:

Congratulations for the winning run, it's easy to see that you have a lot of skill and you've maneuvered several tricky situations, like the elite pirate fight.

It's really nice to have this video, because it highlights the problems of the game as of Hello Darkness release.

It is not fun because you have no choice and no diversity, at least until very late in the game (fog fjord). Consider this:
- The game has not provided you a replacement sword at all! You still had the rusty sword at the end of the graveyard... damn!
- Until level 5 (fog fjord) shop items are "useless" as you always go for the upgrade and don't have money for anything else.
- You still had no skill at all until mid-level 3, where you found the grenade.
- Even with your excellent play, you objectively arrived under-powered at level 5.

Things get better at Fog fjord were you start having more money, more options.

But it's clear that up to this point the game is not well balanced.

When you have unlocked passive you start the game with more money and slightly better weapons and it helps, but still there are too few opportunities to switch gear.

You make good points that I can agree with. The diversity of gameplay in runs dropped since the last patch, and that is something devs certainly should look into.

However, I don't think that should be through changing the economy. I wasn't able to purchase any goods other than scrolls early stages, since I had 0 starting gold (normally won't happen). And a lot of complaints about economy that I've seen are about the late stages and how it is impossible to buy anything with super high price tags. TL;DR: Making the player be able to buy anything he sees in a shop is not the way to solve this, it makes economy pointless to exist.
Also I missed extra opportunities of gear because of teleport mummies etc. And this run was particularly unluckier than most of my runs (The other run I couldn't finish had WAY better drops, and people are complaining that I got TOO lucky there). Also probably could've bought a weapon if I really wanted, but chose to spend money on skill more because my build. Weapon levels don't matter as much as Strength skills anyways. Probably worth noting that my route (which is forced because it is the first time) is not the best, generally consists of easy levels with a little less drops.
All that said, I still agree that drop system need revising, and I'm sure it will be revised too. I just don't want the devs to make us swim in money like elemental upgrade to fix that. They can do stuff like

1. Make sure the same wepon you have won't drop in Prison Cells (at least level 1 version)
   
2. Give elites more gear drops
   
3. Make sure to have every level (or every 'other' level) has a guaranteed free gear of level in it.

Thanks for sharing your opinions. As I said I agree that not a lot of choices of gear is problematic, but so was being able to pick up any gear without even thinking about it. They just need to find a middle ground, I am hopeful they will do so.

[Guizmoyo]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von アルティレッツォ:

1- However, I don't think that should be through changing the economy. I wasn't able to purchase any goods other than scrolls early stages, since I had 0 starting gold (normally won't happen). And a lot of complaints about economy that I've seen are about the late stages and how it is impossible to buy anything with super high price tags. TL;DR: Making the player be able to buy anything he sees in a shop is not the way to solve this, it makes economy pointless to exist.

2- Also probably could've bought a weapon if I really wanted, but chose to spend money on skill more because my build. Weapon levels don't matter as much as Strength skills anyways.

3- All that said, I still agree that drop system need revising, and I'm sure it will be revised too. I just don't want the devs to make us swim in money like elemental upgrade to fix that. They can do stuff like

1. Make sure the same wepon you have won't drop in Prison Cells (at least level 1 version)
   
2. Give elites more gear drops
   
3. Make sure to have every level (or every 'other' level) has a guaranteed free gear of level in it.

1- i totaly agrea with this , i think economy is fine and i love how is it now.

2- there is 3 ways to improve weapons damages. The strenght scroll , the item level and the upgrade at collector. But the stat scroll is much over powered than the other 2 option and many people choose to abuse of this fact. So i can understand that unexperienced player or player with mid skills can be annoyed if they often die and cant purchase a stat scroll and a weapon at same time. Missing a stat scroll should be less important and the improvement of this scroll should be revisited i think ( for me it doesn't matter, i can bypass stat scroll if i dont have many money for purchase a good weapon, but i have more than 95 hours in the game so ... )

3- I agrea with you on this point , i think there is too many amulet and they have pointless affix most of the time. Amulet should be more powerfull and much rare. If you get the YOLO heart , all amulet are pointless and all amulett drop are wasted.

Good idea here ^^