My fears and worries were correct

[Sgt. YippyYap]

I remember when I was looking forward to playing Dead cells.
Now? It's a chore.
I already started seeing the direction in which you're taking the game in the last update, with the random elite enemy attacks, which is just a horrible idea and I'm still not over how absolutely stupid that is

But I still wanted to love the game, I wanted to believe that you wont make a complete ****show of the game... But you did.
I saw it when I was looking at alpha and beta branch videos. BUT I STILL WANTED TO BELIEVE
And then the day came. I knew how horrible the game was, but I still wanted to try it out. And all my worries were confirmed.

The game, as I said, is a ****show. random projectiles, invisible fast moving enemies that can dodge you with no problem, spam, flashing lights (even though I turned it off in options you still can't see anything)
You even "rebalanced" some enemies to make them unnecessarily difficult
But some of these new enemies... Who thought some of those were a good design?
Oh, what's that? You hate how Inquisitors shoot you from off the screen? Good. Because we'll put an enemy in the game that shoots at you 5 times as much, from off screen, and drops a random thing that also shoots projectiles when it dies. HAVE FUN!
Or enemies that are just invisible that dodge you and then spam you with stuff. Enemies that can see you through walls which can fly, drop bombs, hit you from above AND hit you with melee. Also lets put tons of enemies into tiny space so you need to cheese the game. Or the enemies will just rush you and stun lock you with you being able to dodge anything and then just die from full hp in a matter of seconds.
And since there are so many projectiles and spam, you can't see when and where some enemies are attacking

Combine all of that and you get a "perfect" mix for a fun game.

Even design of how some enemies look is... weird. It feels like you tried too hard to make something "interesting". Even their animations are janky and weird and it feels like you just imported them from some other game (demons, arbiters and knife throwers are the prime example) when you compare them to other enemies from earlier versions of the game
Some equipment sprites (looking at you thunder shield) look like they were made in paint...
I mean, earlier artwork was beautiful and fun. Some of the newer stuff seems odd, to say the least.
But that's the smallest issue, basically no issue at all

You keep doing this, you're just gonna put people off.
I used to play on 3 boss cells regularly back before. I even started playing more regularly on 4 boss cells. It was fun, it was challenging, but most importantly, it was fair. Malaise was annoying, scaling was annoying, but it was more fair. I get it, you want to make the game challenging. But filling it up with stupid unfair things, making levels bloated with dumb enemies is not the way to make it fun and challenging. It's cheap, unfair challenging.
I can't beat the first level on 3 boss cells now. or if I do, I'm on super low health. Which would be okay if there was a way to heal. But you removed the small flasks after bosses as well on 3 boss cells.
The static enemy scaling (enemies regularly get harder as you progress unrelated of how many stats you get) is broken. One level I can basically hit them once and they die, while in the next level they get super tanky out of nowhere.
Some weapons are completely useless as well. There is no experimentation, no trying out new things, because you'll fail.
I wanted to use the new war javelin, I unlocked it, but it's hot garbage. the only times when it's on the more useful side is in Ossuary when you push enemies off of the platforms. But it does virtually no damage. even when you hit them against the wall. So I used it only once and I had to force myself to use it to try it out.
I was happy to use all sorts of weapons before and switch them up, try out new combos and what not. Not anymore.




But... Lets end it on a positive note!

-I like the idea of outfits/skins. It's more stuff to unlock and it brings some change.
-The new level, Cavern, is pretty fun. Some enemies in it are a bit unusual, but it's not that big
of a deal
-Giant boss is pretty alright. A bit too spammy sometimes, which is made worse by the
extremely bad hitboxes of the projectiles that he shoots from his fists, But they don't do that
much damage, so it's tolerable

And, you could say that those positive things I mentioned are a big part of the new update. Which is true. But it's just an alternate path you can take. And there is still a ton of bull**** before you reach it, IF you can reach it. At least on higher boss cells. Because the game on no boss cells is nothing. Picking your nose is more challenging than that.
So if you play the game for the first time and think to yourself "Oh, this is easy" You're in for a huge surprise

I think I'm finally done with this game. Was really in need of a new content for some game, I was really looking forward to this so I could play this game some more, but it just left a very sour taste in my mouth.
But a new Enter the Gungeon update is coming out tomorrow so I wont miss out on new content



TL; DR
Game is bloated with unfair, cheap "challenge"
Unnecessary difficulty - stupid enemies - the attacks (coming from off screen a lot of times), the amount of enemies, elites still having a random attack with them, all kinds of spam
Difficulties have been reworked, no boss cells is nothing and 3 boss cells is impossible (didn't even get to try more boss cells)
Useless weapons, no experimenting with builds, so you'll always use the same thing and make the same build, picking up same mutations as well.
Scaling and progression is broken. One level you can almost one hit enemies, level after that they get super tanky.
Art design for new enemies/some equipment is weird. Animations are choppy and janky, art itself seems unusual, and overall design of some things is just weird. But that's not really an "issue". It just doesn't fit the game sometimes, and it's not as good as it could be

But there are some good things. A new alternate path - the cavern and eventually guardians haven is pretty alright. Giant boss fight is okay, even though it can get a bit spammy, and the hitboxes of his projectiles are really bad, but they don't do so much damage so it's tolerable.
And the new outfits/skins you can get are pretty nice as well. giving you more stuff to unlock and switch it up a bit by having a different outfit. It's not necessary, but it doesn't hurt the game

[OverRide]

What kind of content is blocked. One biome and one boss. The rest stuff which has been added recently is open (completing the run on at least 0BC),

Difficulty level... when, that's the main aspect this kind of games. Crazy difficult. It's funny when I see in the web some players and game reviewers - "Add easy mode into Sekiro Shadow Die Twice", cause "normal" player want finish and enjoy game as well. LMAO. Where making this game easy would change everything. It wouldn't be Sekiro game anymore. It's this thing, far, far away which we trying to catch/achieve. Look kinda impossible and pisses players off, but that's the point of such games. No challenge, no fun, where finishing boss/level, spending loads of hours, with close to heart attack and hands so sweat, it's difficult to hold a pad, gives you this feeling of success and Victory. Director of Dark Souls, Bloodborne and now Sekiro explain it in his own unique way..

Have to admit, changes in 1.2 in the beta were pissing me so much I was close to give up, but now I see it's not a game with major problems, but me, frustrating at the game.But If death is fair I try to accept i and carry on.

Remember playing my first runs and thinking how devs out difficculty cap so high, now I'm laughing about this, still getting owned on later biomes on 2BC.

[Sigurd]

Originally posted by override604:

What kind of content is blocked. One biome and one boss. The rest stuff which has been added recently is open (completing the run on at least 0BC),

Well, an ending to the game, for an example. Also we are not talking about some Bloodborne or Dark Souls level of difficulty, because these games are so much easier. They are only considered hard because dying is a part of a game mechanics there. There are still plenty of respawns, and the player doesn't really looses much by dying. After dying he can retry the level or the boss in a couple of minutes in most areas.
In Dead Cells, you die - you loose all of the progress and have to start from scratch. Enemies damage in here scales immensely, they are tightly packed in narrow areas, and if the player wants to be leveled appropriately, he should open all of the cursed chests, which will make him die in 1 hit.

Plenty of games has nighmarish difficulty, but in none of them insane difficulty is necessary to see the full ending. Also, there are mechanics to actually fight this difficulty, like in Devil May Cry 3 and 4 there are "Hell and Hell" difficulty, where Dante dies from 1 hit, and monsters are at full health, but by the time the player unlocks these, he has access to the "unlimited mana" skin that makes the challenge reasonable. Here, there's nothing like that, plus a random item factor in play.

Developers have went for an overkill and killed the joy from their game for their fans who loved the game as it was.

[Pawlogates]

Acceptance mutation + any grenade

[TheRuffLife]

Originally posted by krobloons:

Originally posted by AynE.blogger:

Here's my take - I played more than 150 hours before the DLC, loved every minute of it. Played a couple hours with the DLC version and I'm out.

The reasons in the OP are on point. I don't love playing with shields. I don't love creeping through the level at a snails pace.

3 cells used to be a hell of a good time. It took a great deal of skill, but you could turn into a badass God of War machine of death whipping through levels. At 4bc with the malaise this became impossible. You had to slow to a crawl, spam traps and try to approach every single enemy encounter as optimally as possible.

It's doable, but was not FUN. And I play games to have FUN. I could wait until my turrets are recharged before every enemy encounter. Take 20 min per level. Finish the game in several hours... Whoo.

Perhaps there is hope that they can make more changes to bring it more in line with their original build. Motion Twin has been receptive before. So if you read it guys, please bring back the spirit of the prior iteration and don't just kowtow the the Git Gud crowd that wants you to hang your hat on nigh impossible and truly unfun difficulty.

Check out the new Brutality mutations - Berserker in particular. Makes you immune to receiving Malaise for a couple seconds after killing an enemy. There are playstyles in the game that work that are focused around constant movement and constant killing with no downtime. Also, even moving at a “snail’s pace”, it takes me about an hour and 15 to make it to the Clock Tower unless I’m really distracted. So it’s not quite as bad as you say, and if you’re really taking that long in a level, you may not be using the optimal gear.

I do get the shield gripe though. I guess I just think shields are really fun; I know some people who run Brut builds with combos like Hokuto’s/Torch, though, and can confirm they’ve cleared 5BC with it. “git gud” sounds so mean, but there is no glass ceiling of skill in this game. People are doing 5BC cursed sword runs for fun. You can always do something to improve. I personally think the game has gotten easier since 1.1.

I could clear out a 3-4 cell run in about 45 min flat before the DLC. I may be overstated a snail's pace, but the reality is that I was enjoying playing a much more rapid clip - part of the fun was learning how to efficiently approach a pack of enemies or an elite while flying up walls and blasting through levels.

Again - please don't take this as a humble brag, but the difficulty isn't the issue. I've got a perfect game on Cuphead, had beaten the HOTK without a hit on 4BC, etc. I'm willing to put in the time if it feels like the balance is fair. It just feels like they have really nerfed the weapons too much and gave the enemies too many tools. The laser lines with elites are probably among the most annoying "features" I've ever seen. (Not to mention fighting them barely seems worth it - they often drop crap)

[TheRuffLife]

Originally posted by Insanitys Muse:

The game doesn't fulfill the metrics of being fun as a roguelike or a combat platformer. In roguelikes, you expect to be able to hobble through with most builds on even the hardest difficulties to a certain extent if you're experienced enough at the game interactions, whereas here there's not even a handful of actual crafted builds that are viable on high settings, and those ignore the entire roguelike aspect of the game as people use custom mode to get there.

In a combat platformer (or metroidvania-like, which this purports to be) you expect to be able to have maybe a few different strategies and playstyles to get you through, and can rely on your skills and your decisions to help carry you through. Here, those factors don't matter (except, again, in custom mode) because the sheer lethality of everything and the huge health pools / tankiness of later levels make it so your decisions only matter insofar as the right items and scrolls dropped, and your skills only matter insofar as you can utilize the exact playstyle that works on high difficulty.

I've put roughly 60 hours into this game, much of it post-early access, and if the damage, health, and other difficulty factors of BC 1-5 were halved right now I would still probably give up on seeing the rest of the content, because it's just not fun. The game doesn't respect my time, and with so many amazing games out, that's not excusable. They've had years to balance this and every difficulty they've added has been horribly balanced from the start. 0 BC is so easy it's almost pointless to play after the first couple times, 1 BC suddenly becomes mildly frustrating and restrictive, and it scales 4 more times from there, AND content is gated behind it.

I am glad I bought it when it was cheaper, and more fun to play. I used to recommend it, but would never recommend it to people now, $25 for maybe a few hours of fun content is a terrible deal and I don't think it's even worth the hard drive space to wait around for another year of patches IF they even take it in the direction of fun.

THIS IS SO TRUE!

Very well said! Any build should have the potential for victory through the endgame. It feels like now you have to figure out what the right answer/build is that the game designer had in mind. (Stupid shields!!!)

Bows are highly nerfed - lots of skills like grenades give less damage protection. The tonics used to have some with 35% heal on them, wiped that out. Many of the mutations are better for playing against malaise, but otherwise are a major step back.

[Malarraenaepcaleac'h]

♥♥♥♥ off, ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Darthzz]

Originally posted by Jabba the Wolf:

♥♥♥♥ off, ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Thank you for your input, we will consider this soon!

[OverRide]

One thing I have to agree, playing the game now, I have this strange feeling where devs trying to balance and make the game better, but not fully understanding how.. I have to agree with this, new skills, levels and a bunch of bigger and smaller changes. But whatever Twin Motion changed I feel this game wasn't touched by a team with a pad in hands, and playing the actual game. To check whatever has been changed/added, even a minor fix, is a good call. However game now, feels and looks like there is a bunch of changes, mostly visible in a difficulty level, but again, throwing literally 10-15 enemies on the screen with at least one Elite, just devastate this natural, almost arcade feeling of the game. We're not dealing with waves of enemies and other tower defence ♥♥♥♥...


Saying short - it feels like some team designed/programmed bunch of ♥♥♥♥, but some other guy, literally one person, when he got time, he launches the game like the casual noob who need to GIT GUD quickly, and just check. Check how the game response, how enemy vs you and overall balance feels, choosing various builds and mutation. And after playing his own style just give an honest opinion, fact. And if this is needed, go back to stock or just delete the whole asset if it doesn't work the way it should.

Generally, playing the game, It feels like, in devs studio, some guy is testing this bunch of upgrades, which suppose, make the game more demanding and challenging for hardcore, 4BC Cursed Sword Runners. AND IT IS, but only he can play this content and have some opinion, which is ridiculous, cause how you supposed to make a GAME BETTER without a chance to play it?

Feels like the cheap move from the devs side, where they added the bunch of new OP enemies, rather change the game style, or balance, for example, boost the player, but making enemies harder as well. And this set of new skills and weapons should be a tool in the hands of a player to deal with it.

Still, I love this game, and excellent chunk of gameplay, but as a dev, with such a commercial success, starting from the Early Acces - I would rather thinkmore about new players and community, not hardcore guys, staying in the room 24/7 trying to beat the record in speedrun over and over.

Game should be difficult, fair, where now I have more mixed feeling about it..., but what's the most important. It should be ACCESSIBLE for everyone who like this kind of games. I don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about last biomes, but changes made by Motion Team, they reflect on a whole game, starting from the first level first minute of gameplat, changing somehow drastically the gameplay. This should never happen, it'a not early EA for ♥♥♥♥ sake, right?

I know developers want the best for a game, I just don't like the way they update the game itself. As an additional content, it should be extra content, optional, besides standard version, where it's a total game overhaul. Why it's called DLC in the first place? Cause you HAVE to download it? :\ \

At least I hope it can be fixed/balance somehow. Maybe. One day. Rather sooner or later. Quit shocking, gameIMHO wasbetter inEA or just after release, than it is now.. Where's logic?

[Ai]

Starting with adding inv frames the same duration whatever or not you have a shield should be a good place to start imo...you just took a hit that took out 99% of your life, at less give the player a chance to *jump away* form mobs after that hit when not using a shield...or even let the player parry with his weapon but still take a tiny bit of damage (or a cooldown) unlike shields.

So you would not be forced to run a shield on high cell levels, opening up that slot for more goodies.

Also, enemies should stagger much more that they do right now while also following a constant rule. (Ex: First 3 hit form a fast weapon should always stagger a small enemy while larger enemies can only be staggered with slower weapons, up to 3 times in a row. Attacking an enemy form the back should always stagger the enemy, unless you use rapid attack weapons vs larger enemies.)

No need to be those exact numbers, but that would make combat have a better flow imo.

If you think it's op, remember that any enemy in the game can one shot you at any time, while tanking lots of hits.
Why do you think most people playing on the hardest settings stay clear of combat?
It's not worth the risk. If you could stagger an enemy at a constant rate you could control, i'm sure more people would be more willing to actually fight them.

[Phirestar]

I used this update as an opportunity to finally try out 4-cell difficulty for the first time, because I wanted to gain access to the higher-tier boss outfits, and hoped to eventually make it to 5-cell and reach the Astrolab. After investing around 12 hours or so into 4-cell, I have had four semi-successful runs that made it as far as the Time Keeper - two runs in Normal Mode, and two experimental runs in Custom Mode where I switched off Malaise, restored health fountains, and tried a specific build - and have since given up out of frustration.

My issue with 4-cell (and I've felt that this has been a problem in the game a number of times) is the way that just a single hit from certain enemies can seemingly end a run. As several people have pointed out, the higher stem cell modes seem to put a heavy emphasis on not engaging enemies, or at least not taking them on directly. Despite making it quite far with so little experience, I found 4-cell mode to be incredibly un-enjoyable to play, all throughout. I was turtling my way through the levels, playing extremely carefully and being afraid of enemies. If I were to describe it in one word, it would be 'anxiety'. The only way I could see myself attempting this run again would be to grind out elites in the Prisoner's Cells until I get an invisibility amulet, and then just run through the game and avoid enemies all together. Even though I think that defeats the point of the game's combat system, it's just not worth it.

Aside from that, the other major problem I currently see with the game is the placement of new enemy types. I think some people will agree that the Ramparts and Toxic Sewers ought to be avoided entirely on 3BC+, due to having Knife Throwers, Bombers, and Arbiters all spawning together in tight corridors. There's simply no reason to ever risk going into these areas, when going through Prison Depths -> Ossuary / Ancient Sewers will present a relatively easier challenge, and an additional 2 stat scrolls.

[Holly Berry]

How does someone manage to sound so butt-hurt and stuck-up at the same time? If you don't like the difficulty, just don't play on 3 boss cells maybe? It's your choice to make the game more difficult. And you have no idea of off-putting it is to call something "easier then picking your nose" to people who just want to enjoy a game.

[OverRide]

Originally posted by Elric of Melnibone:

How does someone manage to sound so butt-hurt and stuck-up at the same time? If you don't like the difficulty, just don't play on 3 boss cells maybe? It's your choice to make the game more difficult. And you have no idea of off-putting it is to call something "easier then picking your nose" to people who just want to enjoy a game.

lol, do you know what is opinion? A subjective thing. Can't critique anymore because... you just don't want to?

It's a forum. public place.Just helping devs isn't a crime.

[cyriak]

Interesting to see people's reactions to the new content. Before the DLC I mainly played 3 cell mode, but since they added stuff for malaise management I found 4 cell mode is now possible with some care.

The main negative difference I found since the DLC revolves around cursed chests. Pre-DLC if i found a cursed chest it was like "oh cool, if i stop playing like a maniac for a bit and take things carefully, I get a free stat upgrade. Now when i find a cursed chest, its like "oh cool, if i st.. *enemy/projectile appears out of nowhere and kills me*.

What this means, since those extra stats are kind of mandatory, is that the game turns into an enemy resource management operation, where I have to methodically take out any enemies that will cause such problems before going back for the chest. So I guess the problem isn't the cursed chests so much as the new enemy attacks, which can hit me without any warning in certain situations.

It's not impossible to deal with, and does add a bit of strategy to proceedings, but it also throws a bit of a wet towel on my cornflakes, if you know what I mean.

[InstableMonster]

Personally I find the game has been going downhill since they decided to put a damage cap on bosses and nerf the scrolls of powwer way back when it was still early access. The way it was when it just came out wasnt trying to impede player progression at every turn and felt way more fun to play.

[Gem of Temporarity]

With your(plural) reaction to current RotG enemies, I guess their versions from the first alphas would make you bleed internally IRL.