Scaling ridicule

[Arashi]

I have tried finishing the game with tactics build. I got to 21 tactics with 5 in survival and brutality but normal enemies were scale to the extreme.
I had I think 4.8k hp at that point and every single enemy in the level hit me for 2k minimum.

Why is this a thing?

[Psycho Pie]

because being a god that is able to kill everything with one shot and shrug off any incoming hits would be boring.

[Entropie]

Essentially the game scales enemy damage and hp with your picked up scrolls.

Since you picked up 21 tactics you got lots of scrolls which did not give you much hp and for each scroll the enemies get a nifty damage boost (which is not subject to diminishing returns).

And since the enemies also got an hp boost your damage did not even outscale them all that much.

On top of that bosses will have a damage cap per hit.

Bottom line:
You probably would have had an easier time by never picking up half of the tactics scrolls, just leaving them behind.

[Arashi]

Originally posted by Entropie:

Essentially the game scales enemy damage and hp with your picked up scrolls.

Since you picked up 21 tactics you got lots of scrolls which did not give you much hp and for each scroll the enemies get a nifty damage boost (which is not subject to diminishing returns).

And since the enemies also got an hp boost your damage did not even outscale them all that much.

On top of that bosses will have a damage cap per hit.

Bottom line:
You probably would have had an easier time by never picking up half of the tactics scrolls, just leaving them behind.

Even going half in Brutality and Survival I would end up with around 8k hp which would let me survive 2-4 hits and I would have to spend more time killing them...

I don't think it should be completely disabled but dmg enemies deal to you is scaled to the extreme while hp is kept on the level where I can't deal with them quick enough anyway.

[Rin D. Pryde]

Wait, what? Enemies scale based on your stats? What kind of idiocy is this? The game really gone to ♥♥♥♥ during EA =\

[Arashi]

Originally posted by Rin D. Pryde:

Wait, what? Enemies scale based on your stats? What kind of idiocy is this? The game really gone to ♥♥♥♥ during EA =\

They do but it gets crazy after 25-30 level ups. You die from 1-2 hits at final area...

[Supa]

I had 10-10-10 and one elite zombie that the boss spawned hit almost half of my health in one hit. Xd

yes I had only -15% dmg reduc but STILL. 0 cell.

[bobhome2]

I've played the game for a while now, and really hadn't heard about the scaling situation until fairrly recently (maybe a few months before release - the post that's still active here explained it). I beat the Hand several times without the strategies outlined in there, and it was tough, but not impossible. I DID make sure to grab all the damage reduction I could find, though.

I've also used the 8-7-13 spread in more recent times, with a new game file. In my experience, this meta spread is decent when you have less unlocked and are relying on luck: get a few legendaries that complement each other, and try your best to win. The extra HP can help smooth out one's play and keep our protagonist alive longer.

Is it crazy hard to beat the Hand/game otherwise? No, but it does require more experience. Less luck (for legendaries), more skill.

That's just my 2 cents, though, after 70 hours of play time.

[Arvandor2]

It becomes a kind of risk vs reward thing. Enemy damage keeps going up, but their hp does not. So after the meta 8 7 13 spread, you're increasing the damage you do while increasing the damage you take (of which there are several mechanics for in this game). It kind of raises the skill ceiling, which is fine for a game like this, but it would be nice if this kind of mechanic were a little more transparent or explained in the game somehow so that new players don't get wrecked in later stages because they unknowingly built poorly.

[bobhome2]

Yep, this game was designed around the player having some skill. Metagaming with an 8-7-13 spread is hardly required (I've beaten the game several times without that specific spread), and is likely unintended. But it can make a new player's life easier.

Higher level difficulties will reduce the viability of this spread by quite a bit. After a while, you just need to "git gud" as they say - eventually you'll only be able to take a small number of hits before you just straight up die, and this stat spread fails miserably.

[DarkTroZo]

Eh, I have seen some veteran players on Twitch. They go full red and can jump right into a Spinner and rip it into shreds long before it lets of the first atttack. On 4-cells difficulty. While on 2-cells I have to sit there and parry/freeze the guy two or three times and mash mash mash until his health bar is finally gone. Or one shot kill him with a Crusher, but I can think of funnier ways to play, hmm. So what's the difference? The cosmic skills of the veteran player? The unbelievable 200IQ modifier synergies he uses? Nah, the difference is he invested the 12k+ cells required to max out the forge and all the trash items that drop have insane DPS, with the crap he gets in the first levels having already far more DPS than any legendary gear I find right before the HotK. What can I say, this game's combat is spectacular, but these balancing decisions are souring the game for me.

[TreasureCat]

Originally posted by people:

8-7-13 meta

Sorry, could somebody please catch me up? Why is 8-7-13 (brutality-tactics-survival?) specifically so desirable?

[DarkTroZo]

Enemies actually scale with your scrolls. For every scroll you pick up they get like 7%/8% more HP and damage. Beyond the 8-7-13 scrolls will begin to give you less health than said increase, so actually you are weakening yourself with that +6%HP. You are probably very happy to hear this, but wait, there is more. The bosses, you know, the only actual hard part of this game, have their own scaling, and it is completely through the damn roof. We are talking going from killing you in 10 hits to killing you in 3, simply because you picked a few scrolls too many. It's a thing of beauty.

[bobhome2]

Originally posted by DarkTroZo:

Eh, I have seen some veteran players on Twitch. They go full red and can jump right into a Spinner and rip it into shreds long before it lets of the first atttack. On 4-cells difficulty. While on 2-cells I have to sit there and parry/freeze the guy two or three times and mash mash mash until his health bar is finally gone. Or one shot kill him with a Crusher, but I can think of funnier ways to play, hmm. So what's the difference? The cosmic skills of the veteran player? The unbelievable 200IQ modifier synergies he uses? Nah, the difference is he invested the 12k+ cells required to max out the forge and all the trash items that drop have insane DPS, with the crap he gets in the first levels having already far more DPS than any legendary gear I find right before the HotK. What can I say, this game's combat is spectacular, but these balancing decisions are souring the game for me.

Yep, those items play a big role in their success, too. Once you're playing higher difficulties and getting more cells, I imagine it's not AS bad to unlock all those item drop boosts - still a grind, though.

Personally, I enjoy the game even without the grind, and will continue to play it until I get better at it. The additional farming is acceptable to me. If it's not for you, well, I hope you still get enough for your money.

I've heard that the Dead Cells Doubled mod adds in a different variety of difficulty, so that may be worth looking into.

[bobhome2]

Originally posted by TreasureCat:

Originally posted by people:

8-7-13 meta

Sorry, could somebody please catch me up? Why is 8-7-13 (brutality-tactics-survival?) specifically so desirable?

As DarkTrozo explained, enemies scale as you pick up scrolls. Many people see this as unfair, and have determined the "best" stat spread, which sends you into the boss underpowered but with a lot of HP.

Basically, if you've spent some time getting good at the game, you don't need 8-7-13 to beat it. But it makes it easier for new/less skilled players.

And I apologize if that makes me sound stuck up or something. I beat the game several times with a "bad" spread (because this God spread wasn't found at the time), and it's completely possible to continue to do so. Apparently the game's just super unfair, or takes too long to beat any other way.

[TreasureCat]

Originally posted by DarkTroZo:

Enemies actually scale with your scrolls. For every scroll you pick up they get like 7%/8% more HP and damage. Beyond the 8-7-13 scrolls will begin to give you less health than said increase, so actually you are weakening yourself with that +6%HP. You are probably very happy to hear this, but wait, there is more. The bosses, you know, the only actual hard part of this game, have their own scaling, and it is completely through the damn roof. We are talking going from killing you in 10 hits to killing you in 3, simply because you picked a few scrolls too many. It's a thing of beauty.

Ah, thank you. I knew a little about the enemy scaling, but didn't know it was by specifically 7/8% per scroll. So you arrive at 8-7-13 by never taking scrolls that give you less than 7% HP. That makes sense, thanks.