Legendary forge drop rate?

[Dangeresque]

Quick question about the legendary forge please - once you've unlocked certain levels, do you actually have to play on a higher difficulty for the drop rates to change?

I've unlocked 100% +, 100% ++, and 50% S, and set them on custom mode. If I set to 0 boss cells, I keep seeing + rank items, instead of ++ and S. If I quit and look at the custom menu, the sliders have reset to show my + at 50%, and ++ and S set to 0.

I thought you only had to have boss cells active to improve the forge, and that the drop rates would still apply on lower difficulties?

Or to put it another way, if I want 50% S items, do I have to play on 3 boss cells and above?

It doesn't seem consistent on higher difficulties either. Just started a game on 4 boss cells with 50% S, when I quit and look at the custom menu the S slider is back to 25%. Hard to tell what I'm getting in-game, but it doesn't feel like 50%. Has anyone else seen this?

[bobhome2]

For current release (since I haven't messed with alpha/beta), your unlocked drop chances stay. So if you unlocked 100% S, you'll get basically 100% S on 0BC. I say basically, because it feels like your starting gear is lower "rank" than that.

That said, I have no idea what custom mode will do to those settings. I'd recommend just advancing the forge in game, without toying with it.

[Phirestar]

The Forge upgrades should apply correctly regardless of BC difficulty.

The only items that seem to be affected differently (from what I’ve seen) is the starting gear - the non-sellable items you pick up in the beginning. All items acquired through shops / chests / drops / etc. will retain the approriate upgrade levels that you have set. Ergo: if you have 100% ‘S’ tier enabled, then all gear beyond the starting gear in 0-5 BC will spawn at ‘S’ tier.

(Sidenote: colorless items, dropped by Cursed Chests, are always ‘++’ tier, regardless of any and all Forge upgrades.)

[Gem of Temporarity]

Unlocked stay, it's unlockable that differ.
Starting weps don't quite obey the legendary forge.

[FlintX]

I bring a disscussion about it before with an annoying guy who refused to understand it.

Forge Quality ranks are capped by difficulty, the same way you can't max S quality forge upgrades in 0BC because the cap won't allow you to do so, the item drops of that difficulty will only reach the max quality cap avalaible to that respective difficulty. It just how it works.

Item quality is balanced to individuals Stem Cells. Maxing S quality ranks in the forge on 4 or 5BC won't have an impact when you go back to 0BC. 0BC drops will be locked to the max quality avaliable to that difficulty. You might not notice that in normal mode, and custom mode only allows you to see it better.

[bobhome2]

Originally posted by FlintX:

...SNIP... 0BC drops will be locked to the max quality avaliable to that difficulty.

If you're saying that you won't see S rank drops in 0BC if you've unlocked 100% in 4/5BC, you're incorrect. My last run through 0BC, I had ALL items at S except the starting room's items.

You're otherwise correct that you can only unlock up to a certain rank of drops on each BC, however.

If I'm misunderstanding you, I apologize - that's how I am interpreting what you've written.

[Dangeresque]

Thanks all! I didn't realise the starting gear was slightly different.

I think I started a custom game for the first time, saw the + starting gear, and assumed that I needed to manually set the forge rates in custom.

I just tried turning off all forge and BC options in custom and, apart from the starting gear, got my current max (50% S) in 0BC.

[FlintX]

Originally posted by bobhome2:

Originally posted by FlintX:

...SNIP... 0BC drops will be locked to the max quality avaliable to that difficulty.

If you're saying that you won't see S rank drops in 0BC if you've unlocked 100% in 4/5BC, you're incorrect. My last run through 0BC, I had ALL items at S except the starting room's items.

You're otherwise correct that you can only unlock up to a certain rank of drops on each BC, however.

If I'm misunderstanding you, I apologize - that's how I am interpreting what you've written.

I didn't said it won't drop S tier. I've said it is capped to the drop chance that the difficulty allowed you to upgrade in the first time. If you have S tier quality drop chance maxed out, the maximum bonus will not be aplied to the 0BC. It is confirmed.

You will never start a run in 0BC and there will be a S item for pickup at the start. That doesn't happen ever. Also S ranks itens hardly drop in the first 3 areas of the game at 0BC, save by the legendary altars, drop from mobs and maybe in time and killing spree doors.

You said that in your last run you had all itens at S rank but I doubt they were all drops. You probably upgraded them to S tier. Or bought them in a store at the LATER areas. If you have done the second, that just proves the chances are lower. Now if you play at 2BC and on you already can get S itens right at the start, even the Rusty Sword can appear like that. The cap won't aply for obvious balancing reasons, otherwise you would be one shooting most mobs and maybe even bosses with maxed quality and S itens at 0BC.

This is the wiki text about the forge ranks:

When the player upgrades the Legendary Forge, items that drop or appear in shops have a chance to be of +, ++, or S quality. The player can invest cells up to 100% drop-rate in any rank, but cannot invest in a rank if the previous one isn’t at 100%. Some ranks are also locked based on the current difficulty setting.

Normal
+ rank up to 100%, ++ rank capped at 50%.

Hard
+ and ++ ranks up to 100%.

Very hard
+ and ++ ranks up to 100%, and S rank capped at 25%.

Expert
+ and ++ ranks up to 100%, and S rank capped at 50%.

Nightmare
All ranks up to 100%.

Hell
All ranks up to 100%.

https://deadcells.gamepedia.com/The_Blacksmith

[LiteYear]

Well, for normal mode, if you have a higher cap because you've invested when you've played on higher difficulties, those drop rates will translate to any difficulty. If you have a maxed out legendary forge, you will have a 100% S-Rank drop chance on any difficulty you play. The only exceptions right now are the three items you can choose from at the start (which are based on the difficulty and your drop rate), items from cursed chests (always ++ regardless of drop rate or difficulty), and items from timed / kill streak doors (again, dependant on difficulty).

However, it does seems like Custom mode does play under different rules, and looks like it only plays to the forge investment maximum (a quick browse on 0BC seems to be ++ 50%, no S-Ranks). I don't know if that's a bug or not.

[FlintX]

Originally posted by LiteYear:

Well, for normal mode, if you have a higher cap because you've invested when you've played on higher difficulties, those drop rates will translate to any difficulty. If you have a maxed out legendary forge, you will have a 100% S-Rank drop chance on any difficulty you play. The only exceptions right now are the three items you can choose from at the start (which are based on the difficulty and your drop rate), items from cursed chests (always ++ regardless of drop rate or difficulty), and items from timed / kill streak doors (again, dependant on difficulty).

However, it does seems like Custom mode does play under different rules, and looks like it only plays to the forge investment maximum (a quick browse on 0BC seems to be ++ 50%, no S-Ranks). I don't know if that's a bug or not.

It won't. Drop rates for S gear in 0BC is capped at 15%, you can check this in game at the forge and confirm by yourself.

Actually is a very high chance anyways, so starting a run with S gear drops is not something complete impossible, but the chances for that to happen is very low. I take back what I've said about just being able to buying or find them at special circunstances. It is plausible to get to the end of the run collecting S drops. But still, everything being tunned down for balacing is a real thing. Gear found at the start of 0BC after maxing the forge upgrades will be at best of I++ to II+ or II-S quality. It won't start already at higher numbes like it does on higer difficulties.