Dweller health

[s0laris]

Hey,

Had some suspicion before, but yesterday went through some testing and wiki reading:
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_Shelter_SPECIAL

Problem: If you level up your dwellers that are below the max achievable Endurence, they will have lower max HP than the ones you train at level 1 to max endurence before sending them out for quick leveling.

This makes rare or legendary dwellers crippled on the longer run as they always come higher level.

Is there any way to correct this? Or should i just train new folks and throw away the legendaries?

[Luzilyo]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Raptor:

Still not an acurate comparison, as he doesn't have 1 dweller. He has multiple dwellers.

A correct comparison would be that you have 2 cars. 1 is slow and 1 is fast. If I wanted to go fast, I would not use the slow car, I would use the fast car, and leave the slow one at home.

but then if you complain about your slow car being slow, and someone tells you to just use the fast car, it still doesn't make your slow car faster. and your initial problem of having a slow car that is simply too slow for you would still persist. you would just avoid that problem by simply using the faster car instead of the slower one.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Battleseed:

You need better analogies, or just stop using them to try and make your points.

yes, sometimes i cannot find good analogies. but just writing one simple sentence seems a bit too short and easy for me, and then things might not be explained correctly and there will be misunderstandings. so i always try to use analogies even if i can't think of a good one.

[Tetsuri]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Luzilyo:

Diposting pertama kali oleh packor:

LOL, that's not a defect. How many games have you played? How many of them actually let you get perfect stats? How many of them actually let you min-max? Just because it doesn't work the way you want, doesn't mean it's a defect. When gamers complain because they want everything(that makes the game more convenient and less difficult for them) they thought would make the game better(and are probably want), it's called whining.

or maybe some people just want things to make a bit more sense. what is "legendary" about a dweller who will be weaker than normal people in the end? it would make more sense if they were stronger or at least equally strong to normal people with good training. but no, instead they are weaker. there is nothing "legendary" about something that is weaker/worse than "common" or "regular". think about this: maybe you find a legendary weapon but it only has 7 - 8 dmg. would you think it is allright? probably not. either they should not call such a weak weapon "legendary" or they should make it stronger. very easy and obvious concept.

how many games have you played? You really think just because something is rare or legendary in a game, it's the strongest? That's often not the case. In one of my favorite games, disgaea <3, generic swordsman is pretty much the most powerful, and all the special chars don't have a skill that trumps this class. It's also an early class. In Disgaea 2 <3, the highest damage class, is once again, a generic class known as sword knight, which is the only class that can attack "twice" on a basic attack. In Final Fantasy VII <3, Aerith's unique weapon, the umbrella, has no f-ing materia slots and is one of the hardest items to get because #$%^& minigame, and all the utimate weapons have 0 materia growth. I'm pretty sure that's a defect, right?

Also, you're assuming that optimization is required. Most games don't expect you to min-max your character(s). The rares/legends here are "stronger", but everyone here just wants to compare to 17 end just because it's possible to get it; but how many of you ACTUALLY 17 end level EVERY dweller? If you don't, then aren't you being hypocritical?

[Raptor]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Luzilyo:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Raptor:

Still not an acurate comparison, as he doesn't have 1 dweller. He has multiple dwellers.
A correct comparison would be that you have 2 cars. 1 is slow and 1 is fast. If I wanted to go fast, I would not use the slow car, I would use the fast car, and leave the slow one at home.

but then if you complain about your slow car being slow, and someone tells you to just use the fast car, it still doesn't make your slow car faster. and your initial problem of having a slow car that is simply too slow for you would still persist. you would just avoid that problem by simply using the faster car instead of the slower one.

No, but my slow car is perfectly fine for going to do the shopping.
A weak dweller is perfectly fine for working in the vault, not going on quests:- that is what strong dwellers are for.

[Battleseed]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Luzilyo:

yes, sometimes i cannot find good analogies. but just writing one simple sentence seems a bit too short and easy for me, and then things might not be explained correctly and there will be misunderstandings. so i always try to use analogies even if i can't think of a good one.

Better to not use one at all than a bad one. You just confuse and annoy the reader.

Look, the legendary are fine at the start of the game. Just because they are not ideal for late game quests or vault defense or some other criteria of yours, that doesn't mean they are 'defective by design'. On top of that, they are very rare so you are not exactly filling up your vault with them anyway.

[Unseen]

Diposting pertama kali oleh RockTheShoulder:

Short answer: You want to throw away your starting dwellers, but you don't need to.

Longer answer: It doesn't really matter once dwellers hit lv30+. If they stay in the vault, you can easily have them deal with any vault threat provided they have good weapons (16+ damage). So, no, you don't need to replace your old dwellers or throw away legendaries. The only time it will matter how much health they have is defending the vault door from death claws on higher average dweller level and sending dwellers on quests.

For quests, you want 17E dwellers, as the toughest quests in the game are pretty damn crazy, especially if you're playing on survival. Bosses can one-shot even 15E, lv50 dwellers if you're not prepared. For defending the vault door 10E is about as much as you would want. I generally take the 15E dwellers, that I sent on quests and later replaced, to guard the door, the first level, and the second level. The rest don't really matter and are up to you if you want to replace or not.

16 damage plus weapons deal with all threats BESIDES fires, fires you might as well max tons of endurance specially survival cuz they'll just wipe out everyone. I even think the fires should be nerfed in an update honestly.

[Der Hexer]

i see nasty fires .... all over

[Piloticus]

thanks

[s0laris]

Diposting pertama kali oleh packor:

Diposting pertama kali oleh s0laris:

=I shouldnt cheat to correct a defect by design.

LOL, that's not a defect. How many games have you played? How many of them actually let you get perfect stats? How many of them actually let you min-max? Just because it doesn't work the way you want, doesn't mean it's a defect. When gamers complain because they want everything(that makes the game more convenient and less difficult for them) they thought would make the game better(and are probably wrong), it's called whining.

You can max a normal level 1 dweller assuming you got the necessary training rooms and an E7 suit. You cannot, however max a rare or legendary dweller because it comes with a defect, namely the HP gain is not retrospective. If you are unlucky, you even paid for the box which makes it a scam. There is no indication that rare or legendary dwellers are subpar, there is no indication that HP gain is not retrospective.

[Tetsuri]

say wat? Again, 17 end * 50 levels is not a natural occurance. Dwellers that come to your vault do not suffer from hp deficiency, they have wat hp their end gave them. Their hp is fine. You can't get them maximum POSSIBLE hp, that's a personal problem.

Furthermore, now you're contradicting yourself. You claim every dweller should be able to get 17 end * 50 level's of hp. However, you start off the game with imperfect dwellers. You're undoubtedly going to level at least one of them at one point or another without TEN end. This is further complicated by the fact that you must wait to do 17 end leveling while you do not have a 7 end suit. Which in itself is another dilemma, because you MUST send people out to find said suits, which would also directly cause said imperfect hp leveling.

So by your logic, dwellers are defective the moment you started the game, yet somehow you only care about these "special" dwellers that you got from a luncbox, which aren't even "special" in the first place, except for their gear, which has nothing to do with end training.
^
Again, "unique" dwellers are just GENERIC dwellers with unique GEAR attached to them. Unique gear that can be equipped on another GENERIC dweller. There's nothing "unique" about legendary dwellers. It's just a name and some extra starting stats. No matter how stubborn you want to be, it doesn't change that fact.

.....so, wake me up when your argument doesn't consist of nitpicking. If I recall correctly, your whole problem in the first place was about not wanting to throw away dwellers. So tell me... wat are you doing with all those not 10 end and 10 end trained dwellers that you've leveled up...?

[Symatrix Hill]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Battleseed:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Luzilyo:

if the problem is that you can't use them on quests, then not using them at quests is simply avoiding the problem. even if you don't send them on quests, the initial problem of not being able to send them on quests still persists.
maybe you have a problem with your car and it can't drive as fast as it should. then you complain and tell that your car is too slow. and people tell you "just don't try to drive so fast then", it is still not a solution. better solution would be to either get your engine repaired or upgraded or buy a new car that can drive faster. it is the same with everything else.
if your problem is "i can't do the thing that i want to do" and someone says "then just don't do the thing that you want to do" it does not solve anything, because you will still not be able to do the thing that you want to, and your situation will be exactly the same as it was before and not changed at all. the problem will still be there.

You need better analogies, or just stop using them to try and make your points.

Dude he just make a point and he make a good ones, you only need to understand it ,-)

[Piloticus]

р

[s0laris]

Diposting pertama kali oleh packor:

So by your logic, dwellers are defective the moment you started the game, yet somehow you only care about these "special" dwellers that you got from a luncbox, which aren't even "special" in the first place, except for their gear, which has nothing to do with end training.
^
Again, "unique" dwellers are just GENERIC dwellers with unique GEAR attached to them. Unique gear that can be equipped on another GENERIC dweller. There's nothing "unique" about legendary dwellers. It's just a name and some extra starting stats. No matter how stubborn you want to be, it doesn't change that fact.

Okay, i try again, though i think it is pointless:
Level 1 normal dweller comes with no defect. You can max them out to E17. Rare and legendary dwellers come gimped while being a REWARD. Do you understand the concept? You work to get them and you get something that is irreversibly damaged.

Besides, WTF is wrong with you? What can you lose on actually being able to repair a damaged asset? What would it change in the game?

[Tetsuri]

Diposting pertama kali oleh s0laris:

Diposting pertama kali oleh packor:

So by your logic, dwellers are defective the moment you started the game, yet somehow you only care about these "special" dwellers that you got from a luncbox, which aren't even "special" in the first place, except for their gear, which has nothing to do with end training.
^
Again, "unique" dwellers are just GENERIC dwellers with unique GEAR attached to them. Unique gear that can be equipped on another GENERIC dweller. There's nothing "unique" about legendary dwellers. It's just a name and some extra starting stats. No matter how stubborn you want to be, it doesn't change that fact.

Okay, i try again, though i think it is pointless:
Level 1 normal dweller comes with no defect. You can max them out to E17. Rare and legendary dwellers come gimped while being a REWARD. Do you understand the concept? You work to get them and you get something that is irreversibly damaged.

Besides, WTF is wrong with you? What can you lose on actually being able to repair a damaged asset? What would it change in the game?

you're right, you're pointless.

UNIQUE gear=REWARD. GENERIC dweller=GENERIC dweller.

WTF is wrong wit you? wat is wrong wit throwing away a GENERIC dweller, which you already do anyway? I mean besides the fact that you want to act liek a spoiled brat and throw a tantrum over nothing.

And here's another thing. Legendary BABIES get great stats, are easier to get, AND they start at level 1. QQ moar about et.

[s0laris]

Dude, are you retarded or someone is paying you to be ♥♥♥♥♥? You get a defective reward and you are trying to tell me that it is okay? Its not a generic dweller, a generic dweller comes at level 1 and no defect. And no, the reward is not the gear, you got separate card for that.

[Symatrix Hill]

Diposting pertama kali oleh s0laris:

Diposting pertama kali oleh packor:

So by your logic, dwellers are defective the moment you started the game, yet somehow you only care about these "special" dwellers that you got from a luncbox, which aren't even "special" in the first place, except for their gear, which has nothing to do with end training.
^
Again, "unique" dwellers are just GENERIC dwellers with unique GEAR attached to them. Unique gear that can be equipped on another GENERIC dweller. There's nothing "unique" about legendary dwellers. It's just a name and some extra starting stats. No matter how stubborn you want to be, it doesn't change that fact.

Okay, i try again, though i think it is pointless:
Level 1 normal dweller comes with no defect. You can max them out to E17. Rare and legendary dwellers come gimped while being a REWARD. Do you understand the concept? You work to get them and you get something that is irreversibly damaged.

Besides, WTF is wrong with you? What can you lose on actually being able to repair a damaged asset? What would it change in the game?

Dude i know about a nice solution who can deal whit this issue on a very easy way : We just ask the devl to make a "Reboot Room" and the Reboot should only affect the lv and not the stats :-)