Unfortunate Game Performance...

[TheOofertaffy]

This unfortunately seems to be a recurring theme with Derail Valley. Each update brings awesome new features, at the cost of FPS (Frames Per Second). For the curious individuals, here are the basic specs of my rig:
CPU: Ryzen 7 3700X
Mem.: 32GB DDR4 3600MHZ
GPU 4060ti (8GB)
Storage Device Game Is On: 2TB NVME 3500MB/S SSD (7200MB/S if I had PCIE Gen4)
Monitor Resolution: 1920x1080p

Now onto the meat of this thread...
Derail Valley is in my opinion the best train simulator on the market. No other train simulator really does what Derail Valley does, nor do they simulate their games at the level seen in Derail Valley. However, there is one looming issue that seems to plague Derail Valley. Performance.

For the unaware, in the past decade, it's been made popular for game development studios to brush over game performance, by letting hardware do the job. Letting hardware catch up is the name of the game. We can see this in some popular games, and while I know there are a few triple A games that do this intentionally, I don't usually keep a list of them fresh in my mind, but I do know of games that have had performance issues plaguing them. Ones like:
1. Cities Skylines 2, which mind you, is still plague by said issue.

or

2. Cyberpunk 2077, which a lot of said performance issues seemed to have been fixed (don't quote me on the CBP2077 though, I'm only like 70% sure performance issues were a thing on launch, I only started playing a couple weeks ago.)

I don't want to list anymore as I rather this thread not to reach character limit too fast. But these are some examples of games that have, or had performance issues. Now whether or not Derail Valley's performance issues are ignored or not, is completely unknown to me. However, there seems to be a concerning theme with each update Derail Valley gets.

With each update, Derail Valley on my personal machine, which is still well above min spec mind you, gets worse, and worse performance with each update. For your reference, when DV Overhauled was still the main build. I would more or less consistently achieve 80+ FPS in all scenarios, even the most demanding, like pulling monstrous trains. Now with B99.4, pulling out of the harbour with just 2 job orders, causes my game to bog down to an average FPS of below 30! This isn't even the worst performance either. Just today I figured out the Steel Mill is some of the worst performing area(s) of the map. When I was there servicing my locomotives, going through the yard with a locomotive, I got FPS numbers as low as 16!!! It could have been lower when I wasn't looking, but 16 was the lowest number I consciously made a mental note of. The kicker is that all of this, seems to be completely uninfluenced by the graphical settings chosen. I can crank, or minimize them as much as I want, and the FPS stays the same within about a 5FPS error.

Derail Valley is slowly getting to a state where I just cannot play it anymore because I cannot immerse myself because it feels like I'm just playing a powerpoint presentation. Yes, it's that bad. I love this game to death, and want it to succeed. But what will it take for this game to see meaningful performance improvements? At this rate, in Build 100, I will be lucky to get a frame in time before each one of my paychecks.

Game performance isn't something you just leave to the player. It's not something you say "Just upgrade your components." Because the simple fact of the matter is, is that people, myself included, just don't have the money, or time, or both to upgrade, or reinstall parts. Performance is up to the developers to make sure the game is stable enough to play.

The fact that I can play Cyberpunk 2077 at maxed out settings, with medium raytracing, at more FPS natively in 99% of the time without frame gen, is an absolute joke. Derail Valley is more physics based, yes, but that is not the point. The point is the game clearly needs optimization. Whether the game is more graphically intestive, or vice versa, optimizations can be done.

Now I love this game, and want it to thrive, but I can't see it truly thriving unless performance is addressed. This thread isn't me coming here to throw shade at the developers. I truly think they are doing wonders and making a masterpiece of a game. But the game needs to be stable, and honestly, I think it's the games number 1 priority right now. I honestly could say with confidence, that I would say to hell with Build 100 being a big anniversary update with cool new features, if the condition is that the update was a full optimization update that took my 16 steel mill FPS to say a 60-80 steel mill FPS. Stability is king in games like this, and if it isn't there, you start to alienate some of your playerbase.

Even if the game has hit an optimization wall, at that point, give options to reduce simulation fidelity to achieve better FPS, because frankly, I think I'd be willing to trade a bit of accuracy here or there. Or maybe even turning off certain features that aren't necessarily required.

Overall, I think the game needs a lot of work in the performance department. I'm not sure if performance similar to what I've been experiencing is more of a use case scenario with very specific hardware, but it seems like other people experience it too. I'd be curious to hear what you guys think.

[Crunchy[Daz]]

When i bought this game, it looked way worse then it does now, had much less features and detail and it ran so much worse then it does now. It is getting better.

The game is Early Access. Optimization typically comes at the end of the process for many reasons. Beacause they have to provide a working product, as its in Early Access, that means they have to at least to some work on the performance.

You don't seem to understand the differences between game engines and how they interact with hardware, that might be something to look into.

[TheOofertaffy]

Originally posted by CrunchyDaz:

When i bought this game, it looked way worse then it does now, had much less features and detail and it ran so much worse then it does now. It is getting better.

The game is Early Access. Optimization typically comes at the end of the process for many reasons. Beacause they have to provide a working product, as its in Early Access, that means they have to at least to some work on the performance.

You don't seem to understand the differences between game engines and how they interact with hardware, that might be something to look into.

It really doesn't run better. Overhauled era, I cracked 80+ and sometimes up to 90 FPS. With 60+ consistently. Now I get 20-30 FPS average when running trains. If that's our standard for good, then I have no faith for games anymore.

I do somewhat agree with you on the optimization comes later point. It is true, but there also is a point where performance is so bad that optimization is somewhat a given, and really should be looked at. Especially when a rig such as mine, which is well above the min spec of the game, can't even crack 45+ FPS gameplay with minimized settings.

On your third point, yes I agree, I don't know the intricacies of unity and how it interacts with hardware, but I can't see why my setup, which aren't overtly niche parts, would performance so bad in any game really.

[pitty3878]

Personally since b96+ I've had performance issues aswell. Low fps when I used to get 60+ in most areas. Not sure if it's a hardware problem or something in unity itself. But I still play regardless on lower settings get about 40-50 on medium settings.

[kommadieb]

Same here. After starting the game I get around 80-110 fps. (Say mid-to-high settings; the settings generally don't matter too much). Over the course of 1-2h the FPS constantly drop to the 60s, then 40s, then 20-30s at which point I usually restart (going back to title screen is enough). Not ideal :/ (RTX 2070 SUPER, 1080p, Linux)

[Bobby]

Well i have:
RTX 4060 TI,
32 GB DDR5 4800,
MSI MAG Tomahawk Z790,
I5-13400f (13th Gen)
MSI MAG 850 850GL PSU
PCIE5, 2TB Corsair MP600 Pro NH Gen4 PCIe x4 NVMe SSD. (Nearest the CPU utilising the CPU Express lane)

I play on max settings @1440 and i'm over 100fps.

Something is wrong or conflicting in your system OP -drivers? CPU? especially at 1080. If i played at that i would be 130-140fps

[whisper]

IME b99.4 performs better than b99.3. I 100% agree that improving performance and eliminating stutter should be a major goal for the devs, especially given that the game targets VR.

[BobKlobb]

Ryzen 9 5900x, 6700 XT, 64gb, easy 60+ on highest settings.

[Winged Wolf]

Same thing with a Ryzen 5800X and an RTX 3080. When it runs well, it runs beautifully well, when it doesn't it dips to low 20s, moreover when the bad framerate starts to hit, neither my CPU nor GPU go above 20% usage, which is a clear sign that the game is it's own bottleneck: better hardware cannot really fix this.

I run massive cities in Cities: Skylines at 5760x3240 at 50-70 FPS, yet when this game runs well it peaks my GPU at 100% at 1920x1080. It's ridiculous.

Love the game, I also think it's the best train simulator in the market and I understand that there are a lot of internal systems and physics going on in the background but to be frank, that's no excuse for a game running so badly using near top-of-the-line hardware, specially when the game graphically looks like it was made in 2012...

[Winged Wolf]

Originally posted by CrunchyDaz:

You don't seem to understand the differences between game engines and how they interact with hardware, that might be something to look into.

Understanding how any of that works is not the responsibility of the player, what even is your point here?

[TheOofertaffy]

Originally posted by Bobby:

Well i have:
RTX 4060 TI,
32 GB DDR5 4800,
MSI MAG Tomahawk Z790,
I5-13400f (13th Gen)
MSI MAG 850 850GL PSU
PCIE5, 2TB Corsair MP600 Pro NH Gen4 PCIe x4 NVMe SSD. (Nearest the CPU utilising the CPU Express lane)

I play on max settings @1440 and i'm over 100fps.

Something is wrong or conflicting in your system OP -drivers? CPU? especially at 1080. If i played at that i would be 130-140fps

I don't see how this is physically possible. Granted I'm not well versed in intel CPU's so it's quite possible that your CPU is much better than mine, but I really don't think my game is struggling because of graphics card capabilities. Like I explained, I can minimize or maximize graphics, and the FPS will still sit generally around the same area. It really seems like a CPU bound issue to me that this game has.

I have a quick question for you. Are you getting this 100+ FPS when just standing around upon loading a game, without getting into any locomotives and moving cars around? Because I will say, my machine gets around 60-90 FPS when nothing is going on, but the dip in framerate happens when I actually play the game. Curious if this is the same for you or not.

[Altfuture]

Hey guys, rest assured that we're aware of the performance issues and sorting them out is our top priority right now.

Our current understanding is that there is a bug in B99.4 that makes train moving physics a lot more computationally heavy than they should be. Ironically, the bug came from heavy optimization work done on train physics in this build, with the intent to improve performance. While it does that, this issue that negates it slipped through by the time of release.

We should be able to address this in a patch in a few weeks or sooner.

Going forward we'll take longer cycles to make builds, B100 will take many months to do but will also allow for better testing and ensuring that it performs as well as possible.

[pitty3878]

Out of curiosity what is the rigs you guys use at alfuture?

[Winged Wolf]

Originally posted by Altfuture:

...reassurances...

Thanks for the reassurances, communication is key in early access! <3

[JuniorToo]

i just upgraded to to system, i9-14 and 5080; vive pro2. right now, with out playing with steamvr, i am getting fps' in high 60s in fpsVR. the difference from before is that when i went into the station i would lose some 20-30fps; right now, no difference. still trying to get this new system up and running, so see how it goes when i get a long train put together.

[Ampage]

Originally posted by Altfuture:

Hey guys, rest assured that we're aware of the performance issues and sorting them out is our top priority right now.

Our current understanding is that there is a bug in B99.4 that makes train moving physics a lot more computationally heavy than they should be. Ironically, the bug came from heavy optimization work done on train physics in this build, with the intent to improve performance. While it does that, this issue that negates it slipped through by the time of release.

Glad you are on the case. Im hoping that it will translate to better VR performance because for a while, this game was a top VR sim for me, but the most recent version starts stuttering out of NOWHERE and becomes close to unplayable even on medium settings (Reverb-G2/3080/i9-12900k)