S060 restored Demonstrator: Ingame Tutorial problem

[Bresslaw]

I've restored the three Diesels and now I'm plucking up courage and trying to learn steam (gulp)

I fully restored the S060, recoaled and rewatered, all seems ok - the water tank is full, checked with a torch.

Started the ingame tutorial but hit a snag...

Fill the boiler with water - ok turned the control, water sounds but nothing showing in the indicator, for ages - then

THE VEHICLE'S CONDITION DOESN'T MEET THE CRITERIA TO CONTINUE. PLEASE FIND ANOTHER.

(Presumably caused by running out of water and indeed the tank is empty from up top)

I figured out by checking the water level in the tank up top after starting the tutorial-pointer that water was full and now three notches down after a while, so water is indeed filling the boiler and eventually runs out causing the error message - run out of water...

So I'm imagining that the new indicator is either knackered (unlikely) or - it was full from the beginning - which does not make sense to me after being instructed to fill to nominal indication, in the ingame tutorial - just looks empty to me all the time (reasoning now on writing this that I could blow down to see if the water indicator drops... but farting about with this, run out of time tonight)

I'm dying to have a crack at the Mick I mean have a crack at steam but as a _total_ steam beginner can someone help please mayday mayday :)

Marvellous game, 163 hours, all licences, realistic mode and loving the new objectives.

[JoshBologna]

Refill the tanks and keep the injector on until you see water in the sight glass. The black and white background stripes will appears mirrored in the water column. The first fill of the boiler takes more than what fits in the tanks. This is the same for the S282 as well.

This question could be the free slot in a bingo game. Haha I'm glad I saw other people asking or I would have thought the same thing.

[TheLostPenguin]

Originally posted by JoshBologna:

Refill the tanks and keep the injector on until you see water in the sight glass. The black and white background stripes will appears mirrored in the water column. The first fill of the boiler takes more than what fits in the tanks. This is the same for the S282 as well.

This question could be the free slot in a bingo game. Haha I'm glad I saw other people asking or I would have thought the same thing.

Yeah whilst I'm yet to even find one of the steam locos to contemplate restoring so haven't seen the instructions (or lack thereof) given at this stage, the frequency of this question does suggest to me that some slightly better guidance may be required regarding how much water is required.

[Bresslaw]

Thanks Josh, that was it - took ages and used 7427.17 litres/gallons/units (I have the receipts :) ) when all filled (tank and boiler) and ready to go.

[Eldomtom2]

I hope that they eventually implement realistic direct filling of the boiler with water (the injectors will not work on a cold steam locomotive as they require steam to work).

[TheLostPenguin]

Originally posted by Eldomtom2:

I hope that they eventually implement realistic direct filling of the boiler with water (the injectors will not work on a cold steam locomotive as they require steam to work).

I had the same 'but that can't work' thought myself when I first saw this explained, but then the more I think about it the more I think it might just stay this way. Not sure if it's worth the time spent adding a different mechanic to fill the boiler from empty which (at present at least) is something a player might do twice, if at all, in a game, when there are plenty of other things that are just plain wrong already in the name of expediency in making a game.
For starters whilst I haven't driven steam for some time in DV, I think there's still the single magical control for the injector? I'd rather have separate steam and water controls before an almost one-off use mechanic just for cold boiler filling, since if you're running steam that's something you interact with all the time.

[Rittersporn]

Restored the S 060 and water was good for CS to FF. AS I was in FF the tank was empty and boiler water below the glass though.

[Your weakness is your own]

Ran into this myself, as I saved learning steam for the personal vehicles (don't do it, kids, steam is easy and fun). Small steamer went boom in the museum and took my DE2 with it.
Some simple changes would fix the tutorial up and avoid leaving people in a pit of confusion:

Change the reference of "fuel". The tutorial says the something like the loco does not have enough fuel. Fuel is diesel and coal; I can turn around and see the coal behind me, and there's no diesel to speak of... fuel isn't the problem.

If the tender/tank is out of water, the tutorial should say that it's out of water, specifically that the reservoir needs to be filled at a station. The player is currently trying to "solve the water problem" by filling the boiler, so there's room for confusion about exactly which water has run out. Be specific. Add a specific check for "boiler not sufficiently filled, but water supply is empty" to tie this into.

Filling an empty boiler takes ages, and in the case like I had where I'd never seen water in the sight glass, I had no idea how to tell what was going on (to make matters worse, there ISN'T a way to tell what's going on, other than blindly accepting that it's going to take a long time to finish waiting. I would add a readout on the tutorial to specify how full the boiler is during the "adding water" process. This dispels any confusion about if that annoying noise is actually accomplishing anything. I think this should only be necessary in cases where the water level is not visible in the sight glass.

I was impressed by how good the starter tutorial was (everything about the game was impressive at the start, I didn't have any complaints except performance, until I discovered the remote not working on my DE6). Starting up the steamers from full-zero is awkward enough to warrant some special treatment in the tutorials.

[Team Triss]

Originally posted by TheLostPenguin:

Originally posted by Eldomtom2:

I hope that they eventually implement realistic direct filling of the boiler with water (the injectors will not work on a cold steam locomotive as they require steam to work).

I had the same 'but that can't work' thought myself when I first saw this explained, but then the more I think about it the more I think it might just stay this way. Not sure if it's worth the time spent adding a different mechanic to fill the boiler from empty which (at present at least) is something a player might do twice, if at all, in a game, when there are plenty of other things that are just plain wrong already in the name of expediency in making a game.
For starters whilst I haven't driven steam for some time in DV, I think there's still the single magical control for the injector? I'd rather have separate steam and water controls before an almost one-off use mechanic just for cold boiler filling, since if you're running steam that's something you interact with all the time.

There's still just the one injector valve, no separate steam and water valves.

And you're right, they probably won't overcomplicate it. If they're going to make filling the boiler require steam, they'd need to add external airflow for firing up cold engines; as I understand it, coal-fired steam locomotives were very hard to start themselves using coal; you either needed external air from another engine or the shop, or if you were out in the world, some wood to get a fire/draught going before trying to burn coal.

[TheLostPenguin]

Originally posted by Team Triss:

Originally posted by TheLostPenguin:

I had the same 'but that can't work' thought myself when I first saw this explained, but then the more I think about it the more I think it might just stay this way. Not sure if it's worth the time spent adding a different mechanic to fill the boiler from empty which (at present at least) is something a player might do twice, if at all, in a game, when there are plenty of other things that are just plain wrong already in the name of expediency in making a game.
For starters whilst I haven't driven steam for some time in DV, I think there's still the single magical control for the injector? I'd rather have separate steam and water controls before an almost one-off use mechanic just for cold boiler filling, since if you're running steam that's something you interact with all the time.

There's still just the one injector valve, no separate steam and water valves.

And you're right, they probably won't overcomplicate it. If they're going to make filling the boiler require steam, they'd need to add external airflow for firing up cold engines; as I understand it, coal-fired steam locomotives were very hard to start themselves using coal; you either needed external air from another engine or the shop, or if you were out in the world, some wood to get a fire/draught going before trying to burn coal.

No need for air to 'start' a coal fired loco, nothing on the loco runs on air except perhaps the brakes, and if a loco is parked cold or at least out of steam it should be left with the brake system fully drained and the handbrake applied.
Getting the fire going technically starts the day before use if a loco is fully cold, but either way on the morning of wanting to use it you lay a bed of coal on the grate, then a few burning oily rags wrapped around whatever wood you're starting with, get a wood fire going on top of those then add coal on top of that without smothering everything. Yes it takes a couple hours to go from no fire → ready to roll under your own power, but that's the world of steam, at least so far as fire tube boilers are concerned.
I guess if you're stuck burning some of the awful 'is this stuff even flammable' coal prevalent in some places it may be beneficial to have some modest forced draft to speed things along, but if your coal is halfway decent forcing the fire like that comes at the cost of shortening the boilers life due to uneven heating. That's a situational 'may help' at best though, not a need.
Oil fired locos I presume actually do require some external help to fire up, I can't imagine they're relying purely on head pressure from the fuel tank to get it through the burners. Never been remotely near the footplate of anything oil fired in person though so maybe I'm wrong, just doesn't seem very likely.

[Team Triss]

I was under the impression you needed artificial airflow in order to start a locomotive coal fire from scratch; either an existing fire (wood), or blower from existing steam pressure (local or external). Just trying to light coal from scratch wouldn't produce enough.

Not to power anything, but just to get the air flowing in the right direction.