Derail Valley

Derail Valley

Team Triss Dec 12, 2024 @ 6:56am
What's the Trick to Shunting?
I mean, I know the basics; move the cars around to the various sidings per the job description. I mean in terms of preparation/order.

My first few shunting jobs were fine. I don't remember exactly where I was, but the sidings were open and I was able to just pull the entire consist into the siding, leave the cars there that were supposed to be, and pull the rest around, etc. I even got lucky a few times and the cars at the end of my consist were the ones I could drop off first.

Then I started doing freight hauls and leaving the engine connected so I could then do the shunt/unloading jobs. I've started to run into problems; most have been solvable, but my very first one I was pulling the consist from the front, and I encountered a siding full of cars. I've done some digging, and anecdotally I see that yes, there is enough room on the siding for the cars that are supposed to be there (I've seen some that get really tight between the siding signs), but in that case, there was no where/no way for me to get my engine behind the consist. All the sidings were full to some extent, so I couldn't leave the cars and cycle around them somehow to get behind them. In the case of that first siding, my solution was to just push the cars already into the siding out of the yard entirely, which then gave me an opening to get behind the consist for the rest.

If I plan on doing a shunting job after arriving, should I be turning the entire train around and backing the cars into the yard instead of just pulling forward? Is there some trick to which car in the consist I should be connecting the engine to (first or last listed)? My recent shunting jobs haven't been quite as bad as the initial one, with no way to get the engine behind the entire consist, but I'm wondering if I'm approaching the entire thing wrong.

Unrelated steam question: I know there's no in-game effect if I move the reverser or Johnson bar while the regulator is open, but IRL would you shut the regulator before adjusting the reverser, or is it possible to move the reverser while the regulator is open?
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Showing 1-14 of 14 comments
PlutoProductions Dec 12, 2024 @ 7:10am 
There are some steps and advanced maneuvers you could do to make things easier. First thing is to inspect the tracks where you want to go and what cars need to go where. If you get into a position where the loco is in the way, or it would be very taxing to send a loco somewhere, you can try Dutch Dropping or Kicking. Kicking is pretty simple, disconnect the chain and bottle your air, then apply throttle and break after reaching a speed. The cars will then roll on their own to their destination. Dutch Dropping is a bit complicated, while at speed you separate the consist then try to make distance so there is a hole in between. The usual goal is to try and throw a switch during this gap so you don't bury the loco with the parked cars.

And yes you can move your reverser while the regulator is open, infact it is preferred.
pugdogg55 Dec 12, 2024 @ 7:31am 
As far as I know, every location should have somewhere where you can run a loco to the other side of a set of cars. Because every station has a mainline that runs through it that's always empty and a loading track that's always empty there should always be somewhere to leave a set of cars and somewhere else to drive around.

One tricky spot I immediately think of is Steel Mill where the loading track isn't a runthrough but in that case it has a wye you can use to turn around just to the south of it.

Is anyone aware of a location with no realistic way to run the loco to the other side of cars, I'm curious
Team Triss Dec 12, 2024 @ 7:47am 
Originally posted by pugdogg55:
Is anyone aware of a location with no realistic way to run the loco to the other side of cars, I'm curious
I feel like it was the D sidings at HB, I pulled in at the front of the consist and had no way to get the engine out again, all the sidings were full. I don't remember 100% with certainty, though.
Autocoach Dec 12, 2024 @ 8:07am 
Originally posted by Team Triss:
Originally posted by pugdogg55:
Is anyone aware of a location with no realistic way to run the loco to the other side of cars, I'm curious
I feel like it was the D sidings at HB, I pulled in at the front of the consist and had no way to get the engine out again, all the sidings were full. I don't remember 100% with certainty, though.

D7L is the way to go normally. Can get caught the same at C if bringing a train in to the loader.
Schlappspaten Dec 12, 2024 @ 8:34am 
There are quite a few tricks on how to handle shunting manoeuvres. For the harbour load/unload jobs its generally best to push the cars into the loading track d7l. The easiest way to achieve this is by turning around the whole consist via the wye to c-yard. Most of the jobs start/terminate in d-, g- or e- yard. In the rare occasions you should take/deliver to c1s you can plan your turning move around that.

Other tricks in no particular order: use a second engine or the micro shunter, use remote dispatch mod to see car positions and targets in advance of activating jobs, use tracks for temporary parking a cut of cars, use kicking or dutch dropping as explained above.

Don't hesitate to move cars around that don't belong to your job consist. you can put them anywhere, you just need to remember where you put them if you want to do other jobs also. Passenger stations are usually a bunch of empty tracks that could well be used to build consists for other jobs or just move stuff out of the way.

If you want to do a lot of shunting you can always combine movements to deliever cars and collect ones for the next job.
TheLostPenguin Dec 12, 2024 @ 9:51am 
The locations with only small headshunts at one end of the yard like Harbor and City West where the passthrough line might be the only one clear when you arrive all afaik offer some way to work around the problem. At Harbor as has already been suggested you can use the C yard wye to turn your whole train assuming you have a 1 or 2 job consist that will fit in there, or alternatively could do a run-around in the passenger platforms. At City West the passing main effectively forms a wye with the yard, if working single engine I'd run the train past on the main then back in via the yard entrance from the opposite direction to the one arrived from.
In short, if you can't run around your train, turn the whole thing around.

Regarding steam operating yes it's normal to operate the reverser with the regulator open, whilst depending on the exact geometry of the linkage in use there can be some 'feedback' whilst doing so, it's something you can easily handle if physically fit enough to be operating a steam loco in the first place.
The only counter example I've ever seen cited is the Blue Peter incident in the 90s, and a locomotive that's heavily priming (liquid water being drawn through the regulator rather than steam) is a very different scenario to normal operation. The only superficially similar thing I've experienced IRL (granted I've only driven a few different locos/types) was a result of an incredibly poorly balanced Stephenson link valve gear, where even with the loco stone cold 0 PSI upon releasing the catch that holds the reverser in the desired position it would violently fly to full gear forward unless you had a VERY firm grasp and braced yourself with one foot against something not-the-boiler (there was a peg provided for this purpose). Again an exceptional scenario and the result of essentially a mechanical fault, rather than the action of steam pressure.
Knsgf Dec 12, 2024 @ 9:57am 
Originally posted by pugdogg55:
As far as I know, every location should have somewhere where you can run a loco to the other side of a set of cars. Because every station has a mainline that runs through it that's always empty and a loading track that's always empty there should always be somewhere to leave a set of cars and somewhere else to drive around.
Almost, but there is one place that hasn't. Steel Mill. Only one 1 free track through the yard, the rest are always occupied, making a run-around impossible without serious shuffling. Even worse, one of incoming tracks is a dead-end siding.
schutt Dec 12, 2024 @ 10:15am 
Steel mill has the y to cw/harbor nearby that can be used to turn around. Harbor and a lot of other stations have empty passenger yards, in harbor you can use the C-loading track to turn around pretty long trains (pull into C1L, push out the other way)
It doesnt matter in which order you assemble or park the cars, so if your loco is on the end that has the first cut of cars you just park the last cut of cars first.
Otherwise it is just as you figured: in the end you have to push the cars into the Storage tracks since they are often partially occupied, if the storage track is fully accessable from both sides you can just use the pass through and push them in from the other side. I usually go directly to the input track and directly to the unload and do any turning/maneuvering with the empty train, as it is much easier to accelerate.
Last edited by schutt; Dec 12, 2024 @ 10:15am
Duke Leto Dec 12, 2024 @ 4:23pm 
Originally posted by Team Triss:
I mean, I know the basics; move the cars around to the various sidings per the job description. I mean in terms of preparation/order.

Planning and Experience.

1. Planning:

Most people who play the derail valley pre-plan their jobs before actually confirming the job through the "order validator." Since all cars in the yards have their job designations, you can pick any job and find all the "cuts" of cars in the yard to see how difficult it will be to pick up the cars. Picking up cars can be difficult because they can be trapped, whereas dropping off the cars is just pushing them onto the track. In fact, I will push all the cars quite often instead of dutch dropping at the other end of the track.

Another reason to pre-plan is that you can actually start the job and take the cars to the loading track - this will give you more time to complete the job and get the bonus. In fact, this works for all types of jobs, and most people end up doing this in as they get comfortable with derail valley. However, be warned, sometimes the "order validator" rejects, either due to fee tolerance and/or license requirements, and depending on circumstances you may end up wasting some effort.

2. Experience

Not only in shunting, but experience maneuvering in each location, where the loading/unloading siding resides and what it loads/unloads, which sidings have dead ends and which ones you can pull through, etc.

For example, Steel Mill is one of the more difficult to shunt for a few reasons: 1) only one through rail by default, 2) a lot of dead end sidings including the load/unload siding, 3) cars are quite heavy, elevation changes at each end including the "wye" at the SW end.

Once you know these things, it can be pretty easy to plan, but it takes a bit of experience to learn the "challenges" at each location.
Duke Leto Dec 12, 2024 @ 4:33pm 
Originally posted by Duke Leto:
In fact, I will push all the cars quite often instead of dutch dropping at the other end of the track.

Since your new to shunting I might want to be a little clearer about "pushing." Generally I attach the cars that are in the way, hook up the cars and brake lines, undo the handbrake of the cars in the way... and repeat until I can push the cars i need to drop off far enough onto the siding. Then just turn on a handbrake on one of those cars and disconnect from engine.

BTW, you can turn on a handbrake on any car including those connected to the cars you need to drop off, as long as one handbrake is on, you will complete that step of the job.

This can be made a lot easier if you have the remote control and one of the engines that supports the remote control, de2 or dh4.
LTL King Dec 12, 2024 @ 6:29pm 
Originally posted by Team Triss:
My first few shunting jobs were fine. I don't remember exactly where I was, but the sidings were open and I was able to just pull the entire consist into the siding, leave

Always bring the train to the brakeman. Do as much as possible without walking by hopping on and off the train.
Back in the 50's you would see brakeman hanging onto ladders and handles. Grabbing them as the train goes by "slightly" above a walking pace.

Have the engine be on the side that the train can be pushed into the loading area.

Get the remote. This makes shunting 10x's easier. You can sit on the back of the last car and flip switches with the remote as your rolling by. When you get to the last switch.
Hop off and let the train roll by. Get to about 5-10.

Hop back on where you want to cut the train. Cut it and apply brakes on engine. 2-3 notches will do. Then wait till it slowly rolls into its slot and apply the brake just before.

Never hook up air. Makes it quicker to cut them loose.

Convince them to build in a hump
https://youtu.be/e0CUtE5-kKQ?si=JYrwHr_3Q9S4vV0n&t=460

See how the brakeman stands at the switch and the engineer brings the train to the brakeman.
If you have the controller you can do 2-3 loads at time with this method.
https://youtu.be/DvnRxsW0GzA?si=2yN3B-DM-R2SX7Q7&t=435


There some videos back in the early 1900's would show brakeman riding the cars to apply the brakes when the car got close to it's stop.
LTL King Dec 12, 2024 @ 6:40pm 
Originally posted by Team Triss:
If I plan on doing a shunting job after arriving, should I be turning the entire train around and backing the cars into the yard instead of just pulling forward?

For me it depends on the loading line and the yard layout in relation to the engine as I come in. If I can only go in from 1 side and the engine is on the wrong side.
I would pull the train into the yard and cut it loose. Pull into a different line and allow the train to pass. Back up and grab it from the other side.
Then just do the shunting as normal.
CW, SM, Harbor ect.

If it's a 2 way yard. IMW, FF, Farm. Just pull in and out the other side.

If there's cars already in the line I'm supposed to park on and I want to shunt them.
Then do the method in step 1.

The goods factory is a great place to start shunting and getting a process
down as, if need be, you can just flip a switch and go around the circle
Last edited by LTL King; Dec 12, 2024 @ 6:41pm
bolero3232 Dec 12, 2024 @ 6:43pm 
Originally posted by Team Triss:
I mean, I know the basics; move the cars around to the various sidings per the job description. I mean in terms of preparation/order.

My first few shunting jobs were fine. I don't remember exactly where I was, but the sidings were open and I was able to just pull the entire consist into the siding, leave the cars there that were supposed to be, and pull the rest around, etc. I even got lucky a few times and the cars at the end of my consist were the ones I could drop off first.

Then I started doing freight hauls and leaving the engine connected so I could then do the shunt/unloading jobs. I've started to run into problems; most have been solvable, but my very first one I was pulling the consist from the front, and I encountered a siding full of cars. I've done some digging, and anecdotally I see that yes, there is enough room on the siding for the cars that are supposed to be there (I've seen some that get really tight between the siding signs), but in that case, there was no where/no way for me to get my engine behind the consist. All the sidings were full to some extent, so I couldn't leave the cars and cycle around them somehow to get behind them. In the case of that first siding, my solution was to just push the cars already into the siding out of the yard entirely, which then gave me an opening to get behind the consist for the rest.

If I plan on doing a shunting job after arriving, should I be turning the entire train around and backing the cars into the yard instead of just pulling forward? Is there some trick to which car in the consist I should be connecting the engine to (first or last listed)? My recent shunting jobs haven't been quite as bad as the initial one, with no way to get the engine behind the entire consist, but I'm wondering if I'm approaching the entire thing wrong.

Unrelated steam question: I know there's no in-game effect if I move the reverser or Johnson bar while the regulator is open, but IRL would you shut the regulator before adjusting the reverser, or is it possible to move the reverser while the regulator is open?
Shunting really isn't that hard. I tend to do loading jobs before unloading jobs, but don't know if it really matters that much. IDK why you're having problems with it. I'm guessing you just got in a jam with a particular job. Don't overthink it. If you're worried about the bonus, do as has been suggested and find the consists before you validate the job, otherwise validating the job will tell you exactly where to find the consists.
Shunting is where the money is, so don't give up on it.
Team Triss Dec 12, 2024 @ 9:21pm 
How do you guys recommend cutting the consist loose on the move with the S060 and on realistic difficulty in VR? Kicking it seems doable, but the Dutch drop and disconnecting a trailing consist on the fly sounds wild if I have to move around to interact with everything by hand.
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Date Posted: Dec 12, 2024 @ 6:56am
Posts: 14