Brake cutout valve?

[AngryWallpaper]

On the DE2. I absolutely 100% do no understand this? I have 2 DE2's i push it down (not even sure what position is open or closed to be honest) on one and up on the other and brake pipe light goes off. Both up brake pipe light is on. Both up brake pipe light on, one down one up light off. My understanding of this whole situation is bleak. What is this lever for, how does it work, and why is my light on? But not,but then on, but not. I read the manual but its a little German to me. One DE2 and I just had it pushed down (just randomly) 2 now I have no train break and cant move 490 tons up a hill. I'm forked.

[Geoppolis]

This is the brake cut-out valve. Its position is consistent with normal quarter-turn ball valves in the real world. Meaning, handle parallel to the pipe is "on"; handle perpendicular to the pipe is "off".

When the valve is turned to the "off" position, the train brake valve (not the independent) in that specific locomotive is disabled. Meaning it does absolutely nothing: the handle positions is disregarded in that specific locomotive. (The independent brake lever continues to function normally, so make sure it's in the release position before attempting to shove or drag the locomotive anywhere.)

"Bypassed" would be another way to think of cut-out, if that helps. When the valve handle is in the perpendicular position, the brake valve it services is "bypassed" - meaning ignored.

This means that, on a multi-unit consist, you want all locomotives to have their cut-out valve in the cut-out position: with the handle perpendicular to the pipe the valve is in. The ONE locomotive from which you intend to operate the brakes is the only one that should have its valve in the cut-in position: with the handle parallel to the pipe.

The reason the brake warning light blinks if you have multiple locomotives and they all have their cut-out valves in the same position, is that either you'll have NO brakes (all valves cut-out), or you'll have multiple locomotives able to actuate the brakes (which can lead to all kinds of nonsense in the braking system.)

Does that help?

[Autocoach]

Hi , Horizontal is cut out (not in use) , vertical is cut in (in use) .

Your train should have one set of brake controls cut in and generally it's best to make that the one you are driving at the front. If you cut them both out you have no brake controls but on multi unit you could cut both in and the brakes would work (light would flash though)

The big problem comes (say) you are driving an S282 with non self lapping brakes and you are towing a dead DE2 for shunting , in this case the DE2 brakes must be cut out.

[AngryWallpaper]

I think so. Front loco cut in - down - and second out - horizontal. How do you guys get so good at this? Ive put hours into this and have never really wrapped my head around brakes. Havent figured out what the handle releases on the cars do either? I can get around but so much I still dont really get. Is this why im having an issue pulling 490 tons uphill? Before the update no issue but new mechanics im missing i think.

[crashcat]

Originally posted by AngryWallpaper:

I think so. Front loco cut in - down - and second out - horizontal. How do you guys get so good at this? Ive put hours into this and have never really wrapped my head around brakes. Havent figured out what the handle releases on the cars do either? I can get around but so much I still dont really get. Is this why im having an issue pulling 490 tons uphill? Before the update no issue but new mechanics im missing i think.

It's a general rule of thumb when using any ball valve or any valve with a handle. Across the pipe means the pipe is shut. Inline with the pipe usually means the pipe is open.

Think of the handle as pointing to where you want the air to flow. Across the pipe it's not going to anything. Put it inline and the air is flowing down the pipe

[AngryWallpaper]

ok yeah that makes sense. Still cant pull 490 tons with 2 de2's up an incline pretty sure its doable. Also what are the red rods you can pull on each car that release air?

[Autocoach]

Hi just that . If you want the brakes completely released and don't want to attach a loco - rolling downhill etc. You can safely ignore this TBH

[Neon Samurai]

Originally posted by Geoppolis:

When the valve is turned to the "off" position, the brake valves (both the independent and train brake) in that specific locomotive are disabled. Meaning they do absolutely nothing: they disregard the handle positions in that specific locomotive.

One correction, the independent brake works regardless of the cutout position, as it is limited to only that locomotive (you will notice the cutout is not connected to it), while the train brake works across the whole consist (assuming everything is connected), and that is what is bypassed or cut off.

[schutt]

Actually, since some people seem to know the technical details, i have 2 questions:
- i thought until now that on non self lapping brakes the lap position would do exactyl that: no change to brake pipe. So why, on the critical brake system where every valve is a possible problem source and needs to be of high quality, is there an extra cut off valve if the lap position would do exactly the same? I would not put a cut out valve on these brake types.

- On MU systems before B99 the MU synced the brake operation which meant both locomotives are braking when the individual brake is used and both compressors/main reservoirs were helping when you wanted to fill a train/repressurise brakes. Now i hear than in MU your supposed to cut out the other locomotives. Do they no longer help with filling the air tanks? or do you not cut out if MU is connected? On real mu capable locomotives i think they have an additional valve to help in that case?

[pugdogg55]

Originally posted by schutt:

Actually, since some people seem to know the technical details, i have 2 questions:
- i thought until now that on non self lapping brakes the lap position would do exactyl that: no change to brake pipe. So why, on the critical brake system where every valve is a possible problem source and needs to be of high quality, is there an extra cut off valve if the lap position would do exactly the same? I would not put a cut out valve on these brake types

Could be simply for redundancy. A safety feature. If the brake lever were to somehow move positions that would mess up the entire brake system. The cut-out valve would solve this issue.

Originally posted by schutt:

- On MU systems before B99 the MU synced the brake operation which meant both locomotives are braking when the individual brake is used and both compressors/main reservoirs were helping when you wanted to fill a train/repressurise brakes. Now i hear than in MU your supposed to cut out the other locomotives. Do they no longer help with filling the air tanks? or do you not cut out if MU is connected? On real mu capable locomotives i think they have an additional valve to help in that case?

I'm not entirely sure, but the brake pipe can only move so much air at a time and that may already be capped by the one air compressor on the driving loco. You can feed the brake pipe all it wants but it'll only move as much as the diameter of the pipe allows

[Geoppolis]

Originally posted by Neon Samurai:

One correction, the independent brake works regardless of the cutout position,

My mistake - I've gone back and edited my post accordingly.