Locomotive Catalog : Player Request.. Instead of a tonnage rating......

[Buzzzz]

I would like to see just a power rating listed for each Locomotive in the upcoming Locomotive Catalog. Why???

Copied from a reply to another thread I just posted...

Interesting that with the new simulator update, that people are asking for definitives on Loco pulling capacity when the new update adds quite a few new variables that will affect the maximum tonnage a single loco can pull efficiently or functionally pull. I have found that depending on conditions (Rain, curves, heat, loco condition, gradient and acceptable speed) the tonnage a loco can functionally and efficiently pull varies by quite a bit. As part of the game experience , I have enjoyed experimenting to learn what each engine is capable of and furthermore adds a bit of challenge to the beginning of the game and each time you unlock a new engine. When Devs handfeed the player base with too much info or too many "Cheats", it tends to dilute the gaming experience. Don't get me wrong, I would also like to see a loco catalog with very rough specs for each unit, but any definitive tonnage number is subjectively going to be wrong from player to player. So in a nutshell, I'm surprised how many players are vocally "Disapointed" in a "Missing" feature that literally takes a half hour of gameplay per unit to sort out for yourself. Personally, I would rather see a base power rating per loco included in the catalog versus an actual tonnage rating.

[Sanaro]

When Devs handfeed the player base with too much info or too many "Cheats", it tends to dilute the gaming experience.

It tends to dilute the gaming experience for who?

Hand feeding information to players via tutorials and game manuals doesn't dilute the experience for any player. If a player's idea of fun is to go into a new game blind so they can learn by their mistakes they can by-pass the tutorial, not read the game manual and refrain from watching videos on YouTube. Its their game and they can play it any way that gives them a smile.

Those players who want differing levels of help can use the tutorial, manual and videos as fits their idea of having fun. What they do won't affect your gaming experience at all. You'll still be able to enjoy the game the way you like to play the game.

One other thing to keep in mind is this: Train simulator games is targeted to a niche and somewhat saturated market for a game developer. Right from the get-go the devs are in a market where making a profit on their game given the huge investment of time and money that has gone into it (three year in the case of this game) means small mistakes quickly become big losses. Turning a train simulator that for three years was targeted at the medium difficulty market into a hard core gamer product, mid stream, is a road map to disaster.

[Talkingpeanut]

Just for the record, people are most likely oversimplifying what the vehicle catalogue is, based on their understanding of how the information was presented in Overhauled.

The devs have said in the past that each loco will have detailed stats pages, with performance graphs for different operating conditions. We don't know if that is still the exact plan, but noone else does either

[refshop]

What do you hope to gain by having the power rating ?

[RainmakerLTU]

Originally posted by refshop:

What do you hope to gain by having the power rating ?

I think people simply like to know what is top weight the locos can pull. Though I like general numbers of wiki - DE2 - 400 t, and so on. But these are numbers for ideal settings, I guess, because, sometimes and 150-200 tons while raining and uphill might be mission impossible.
With DH4 I had identical situation, a consist of 10 cisterns, just refused go over small gradient of height, and looking at wiki's weight "ceiling" set for DH4 800 t, I had about 300 t in reserve. But it needed just a small push from a side (one more loco) to get moving over that hill.
So, yeah, these numbers for general understanding what you can pull, are fine, yet they require you double check them by yourself, because they might be completely wrong because of different road conditions. And that is very cool, I suppose, because it's not like 800 t you can pull, and 801 t you can't, nooosir

[Buzzzz]

Originally posted by refshop:

What do you hope to gain by having the power rating ?

Horsepower and tractive effort are the metrics that are used IRL when they rate locomotives.

[schutt]

The point is that with the diffrent propulsion designs the tractive effort and the horsepower are meaningless due to the overheat dynamics. So while i would also love to have the tractiv effort and the hp per locomotiv it would still be misleading and the same players that complain now would still have problems.
in fact it is really simple in the game, unhook the train (apply brakes first of course), drive your loco to the next yard, throw the job away and get a new job.
Evryone can if he grabbed a job that is to heavy just leave it where the hill is and grab a new job, without ANY penalty other than the not so pricy maintanence, or if his copay is lower the copay.

I think the main problem is the game doesnt mention in the tutorial how to handle jobs you cant finish, its there but not explicitly enough.

[RainmakerLTU]

Originally posted by schutt:

The point is that with the diffrent propulsion designs the tractive effort and the horsepower are meaningless due to the overheat dynamics. So while i would also love to have the tractiv effort and the hp per locomotiv it would still be misleading and the same players that complain now would still have problems.
in fact it is really simple in the game, unhook the train (apply brakes first of course), drive your loco to the next yard, throw the job away and get a new job.
Evryone can if he grabbed a job that is to heavy just leave it where the hill is and grab a new job, without ANY penalty other than the not so pricy maintanence, or if his copay is lower the copay.

I think the main problem is the game doesnt mention in the tutorial how to handle jobs you cant finish, its there but not explicitly enough.

Or you can get out of loco and delete one car with radio. The job paper also disappear from your inventory.

[Johno]

Yes, play the game and gain experience on what you personally can expect to achieve.

[Azige]

I think as the simulation reworked, old numbers like "DE2 - 400t" are not suitable form for current version. Something like "DE2 - 200t 1% 20kph, 150t 2% 10kph, dry" is what I want. I really need such "cheat sheet". If devs don't provide this, I will search it on wiki or somewhere else. This is my lifestyle of playing simulation games. I like to make things right and do the research before the actual work, not trial and error, and I don't think it's "cheating".

For what causes "Disapointed" thing, I think it's the game called Derail Valley, not Stall Valley. It's possible to take jobs in SM which DE2 can't make the trip to the southwest of SM in a new game. This makes players extremely frustrating. If other train simulation games punish players for SPAD, players may load a save or restart the scenario and eventually succeed. If DV players get stalled with a DE2 hauling 400t, they may load a save and never succeed. They just chose a wrong "scenario" and it might be hard to figure out what a proper one is.

[RainmakerLTU]

DE2 is not meant for long distance delivery I think. It's a small shunter. It's the same as to go out to ocean with tug without proper refrigerators and holding space to catch fish. DE2 is for pushing things in stations. You can get familiar with station layouts and earn quick money, because of time bonus. Then you get license of something that can really pull things - DH4 or DM3. At least I started like this, I'm not that stupid to try to pull loads of cars with starting loco. Who does that either is crazy or does not think logically.

[Ash]

where can i find these upcoming locomotives?

[maxine]

Originally posted by Azige:

I think as the simulation reworked, old numbers like "DE2 - 400t" are not suitable form for current version. Something like "DE2 - 200t 1% 20kph, 150t 2% 10kph, dry" is what I want. I really need such "cheat sheet". If devs don't provide this, I will search it on wiki or somewhere else. This is my lifestyle of playing simulation games. I like to make things right and do the research before the actual work, not trial and error, and I don't think it's "cheating".

For what causes "Disapointed" thing, I think it's the game called Derail Valley, not Stall Valley. It's possible to take jobs in SM which DE2 can't make the trip to the southwest of SM in a new game. This makes players extremely frustrating. If other train simulation games punish players for SPAD, players may load a save or restart the scenario and eventually succeed. If DV players get stalled with a DE2 hauling 400t, they may load a save and never succeed. They just chose a wrong "scenario" and it might be hard to figure out what a proper one is.

The thing is, it's not that simple. You may get away with a certain amount of load when it's a short 2% grade and you go in with enough speed. Yet you won't be able to start from 0 on a 2% grade with that same load or you may stall when it's a long climb like to the coal or iron mine. And then dry or wet conditions are a complete different story.

[Skorj]

I want the "starting" tractive effort of each loco, so I can figure out what can safely stop on a hill (though maybe it's the adhesion that matters in practice, and the traction coefficients of the rails are all over the place in DV, but it's something) . I want the rated HP of the locos sustained at low speed w/o overheating, so i can figure out what they can haul up a given long slope.

These number's aren't secrets! They're the published specs of locos, just like you can look up the HP and torque of just about any passenger car.

Hopefully we get that in the next update, or someone just datamines the game for it.

[Azige]

Originally posted by maxine:

Originally posted by Azige:

I think as the simulation reworked, old numbers like "DE2 - 400t" are not suitable form for current version. Something like "DE2 - 200t 1% 20kph, 150t 2% 10kph, dry" is what I want. I really need such "cheat sheet". If devs don't provide this, I will search it on wiki or somewhere else. This is my lifestyle of playing simulation games. I like to make things right and do the research before the actual work, not trial and error, and I don't think it's "cheating".

For what causes "Disapointed" thing, I think it's the game called Derail Valley, not Stall Valley. It's possible to take jobs in SM which DE2 can't make the trip to the southwest of SM in a new game. This makes players extremely frustrating. If other train simulation games punish players for SPAD, players may load a save or restart the scenario and eventually succeed. If DV players get stalled with a DE2 hauling 400t, they may load a save and never succeed. They just chose a wrong "scenario" and it might be hard to figure out what a proper one is.

The thing is, it's not that simple. You may get away with a certain amount of load when it's a short 2% grade and you go in with enough speed. Yet you won't be able to start from 0 on a 2% grade with that same load or you may stall when it's a long climb like to the coal or iron mine. And then dry or wet conditions are a complete different story.

"DE2 - 200t 1% 20kph, 150t 2% 10kph, dry" means, when hauling 200t load entering a 1% slope, DE2 can climb at 20kph stably, in dry condition. (These are random numbers for example, don't follow it.) This works as a safety guidance. It keeps things right if players follow it. It's possible for DE2 to pull 400t load leaving HB but it's not stable. Players should take their own risk in such case.

[Buzzzz]

After a few hours in each loco, you should have a pretty good feeling of what loco is needed to get that load over there in that weather.