Need to be able to 'bail-off' Independent Brake

[NoahBlueRidge]

I've noticed so far that in all the locomotives, you cannot 'bail-off' the independent brake when using the train brake. This does not at all reflect real life, because in real life, when using the automatic/train brake, locomotive engineers are taught to 'bail-off' the independent/loco brake for reasons of slack control, and in-game, plays a major part in preventing sliding the wheels in wet weather.

[Metallos]

Independent "indy" brake = train / automatic brake, controls also the loco brake.
Direct brake -> controls the loco brake directly. Is always set to "release" except you want to use only the loco brake (for example if you have the loco alone). There's no "bail off" (as far as I understand releasing loco brakes while train brakes are kept applied).

What you can do (not in this game) is giving higher pressure than 5 bar onto the brake pipe for qicker release but if you overcharge (reservoirs are getting above 5 bar) and you set the indy brake back to "release" (5 bar brake pipe pressure) then the brakes are applying (because reservoirs are higher than brake pipe pressure) and you have to run along the train and release the brakes manually.

Edit: It was late, I meaned the indirect brake in the first line, not the independent brake (which is the loco brake).

[maxine]

Independent brake is NOT the train brake.

[NoahBlueRidge]

Originally posted by maxine:

Independent brake is NOT the train brake.

I know, I was taking about releasing the locomotive's brakes separately while keeping the brakes applied on the cars you're hauling.

[maxine]

Originally posted by NoahBlueRidge:

Originally posted by maxine:

Independent brake is NOT the train brake.

I know, I was taking about releasing the locomotive's brakes separately while keeping the brakes applied on the cars you're hauling.

I thought it was clear, but I wasn't replying to you. It was a reply to the person above my comment saying that Independent brake = train brake.

[bolero3232]

Yeah I don't understand either. The loco brakes are controlled separately from the train brake. Why can't you release the loco brake and keep the train brake applied?

[maxine]

Originally posted by bolero3232:

Yeah I don't understand either. The loco brakes are controlled separately from the train brake. Why can't you release the loco brake and keep the train brake applied?

The train brake applies ALL brakes on the train, including the locomotives.

[bolero3232]

Originally posted by maxine:

Originally posted by bolero3232:

Yeah I don't understand either. The loco brakes are controlled separately from the train brake. Why can't you release the loco brake and keep the train brake applied?

The train brake applies ALL brakes on the train, including the locomotives.

Are you sure? I didn't realize this, figuring the independent brake was 'independent'. LOL.

[Geo]

I noticed the same 'missing' functionality...
Never really missed it in overhauled but now it's an issue if using dynamic breaks and applying the train brake: Wheel slip on the loco... I have to reduce dynamic breaks to recover - if I could bail off the loco breaks that would work better...

Side note: The old trusty MSTS allowed to bail off the Loco brakes and I used that quite often...

[maxine]

Originally posted by bolero3232:

Originally posted by maxine:

The train brake applies ALL brakes on the train, including the locomotives.

Are you sure? I didn't realize this, figuring the independent brake was 'independent'. LOL.

The independent brake is independent. It applies the locomotive's brakes only.

[Metallos]

It was late when I made the post above, I meaned the indirect brake in the first line and not the independent (loco) brake.

Originally posted by Geo:

Side note: The old trusty MSTS allowed to bail off the Loco brakes and I used that quite often...

The simulations of MSTS were based on US locos, that's why you needed only to drive against a wagon slowly to get it coupled (like the Janney coupler if you have it already opened before or SA-3), in real wou would need to connect the electrical cables and pressure hoses (MSTS was much simplified tue to age and engine, also it go no updates quickly).

What matches most to MSTS is the European DAC4EU (is in test phase, should replace the screw coupler in future), it will also connect power and air automatically (like several Scharfenberg couplers on modern passenger trains or trams), this new coupler has also intelligent electronics in the wagons and will for example tell the loco about brake pressure and status of each wagon so it will improve the braking tests or it can uncouple the wagons electronically without needing to walk to the coupler.
The DAC4EU would be also the first automatic coupler in the world for connecting different units, the Janney or SA-3 are only semiautomatic (they're called automatic but they aren't because the connections have still to be made manually).

[Skorj]

Originally posted by maxine:

Originally posted by bolero3232:

Yeah I don't understand either. The loco brakes are controlled separately from the train brake. Why can't you release the loco brake and keep the train brake applied?

The train brake applies ALL brakes on the train, including the locomotives.

Maybe on some equipment? That's not the norm, at least on Western locos. Here's a quote from an 1974 Western Pacific operators manual.

Another feature of the braking system is the "Independent Release". Using this feature the engineer can hold off or release the automatic application on locomotive units only while leaving train brakes applied. This is also known as "bailing off" the locomotive brakes

[bolero3232]

Originally posted by maxine:

Originally posted by bolero3232:

Are you sure? I didn't realize this, figuring the independent brake was 'independent'. LOL.

The independent brake is independent. It applies the locomotive's brakes only.

So you are saying that the train brake overrides the loco's independent brake application. OK, I guess that makes sense.

[Skorj]

Originally posted by bolero3232:

So you are saying that the train brake overrides the loco's independent brake application. OK, I guess that makes sense.

In the game, yes. In reality, well, it's hard to generalize across every locomotive ever made, but AFAIK the usual thing for airbrakes is

• When you apply the train brake, it also applies the independent brake.
  
• The independent brake can then be released if desired (or in some cases held off while applying the train brake)

Vacuum brakes are a mystery to me, but not relavent here.

[Metallos]

Also bailing off is not relevant here because you speak about US trains and the game plays in a fictive country in Europe based on Serbia.

[NoahBlueRidge]

Originally posted by Metallos:

Also bailing off is not relevant here because you speak about US trains and the game plays in a fictive country in Europe based on Serbia.

In European freight trains, do drivers not normally release the locomotive brake when using the 'train/automatic' brake, for say when using dynamic braking?