New player criticism

[thekins]

So i got this not long ago had a good bit of fun with it.
Overall its pretty fun just wanted to say a couple things

Early game is fun the DE2 feels strong enough to be useful but weak enough that you want the DE6/steam train.

Mid game is pretty bad tho (progression wise) if you buy the wrong/weaker licenses you get punished HEAVILY when you slightly bump the wrong thing
As an example i took a shunting job which basically made me say NO to shunting ever again I put the signals in the wrong order and bumped into a blue tank at like 15? kmh i had all breaks on and such and it costed me 56k instantly.... That was a massive set back considering if you dont have multi unit and personal repairs unlocked you end up in a loop of just barely making profit on a run and heaven forbid you slightly cause any damage in any way shape or form thats gonna cost a mint.

This is where the problem lies tho because once you have multi unit and personal repairs you start making astronomically more money you go from barely making a few thousand to raking in near 100k on a good stack of jobs.

The time bonus is bad and honestly should be removed in favor of higher pay over all this way you could set up a route such as A-B-C-A
Right now hands down it makes more sense to just go A-B-A that being FF-HB-FF
I set up a route that went GF-MF-CSW-HB but one of the cars wanted to go GF-HB That was a lot of fun I had to break the train down to different jobs so I could drop off trains in the right order and such but it would have been more economically smart to just go GF-HB and stack as many jobs as possible to get the time bonus. This is kind of a fun killer it promotes overly simple A-B gameplay and punishes A-b-c-A-D you cannot break down a bigger train AND deliver it in time for the bonus which is basically the only way to pay for the exorbitant fuel costs even if you coast 90% of a journey you are going to pay out the wazoo in fuel.

Lastly This game desperately needs a stopgap between the DE2 and the DE6 the steam train just did not interest me in the slightest and running the same de2 for 40 hours without any form of upgrade besides now getting to run 2 DE2's was boring and killed the game for me a little. When I finally did get the de6 i didnt care anymore and of course the de6 is ludicrously expensive to run even further punishing you for doing anything other than A-B to get a time bonus to pay off the insane diesel price.

End game I honestly dont have much to say I dont care to grind hundreds of thousands of dollars to get the military contracts I know how to do it go back to the DE2 and run HB-FF all day and stack money like crazy till i can afford it.

All that said I did have fun with the game its not bad in any way just could use some tweaks in the economy/upgrade path

[Zeibach]

Breaking it down a bit:
1) 15 kph is too fast for shunting. 10 kph is a risky but feasible maximum. 8 kph is a better target.

2) Your insurance copay is your defense against expensive mistakes. It's important to only buy licenses that allow you to make more money immediately to make up for the increase in insurance copay that comes with the licenses.

3) The time bonus is just that, a bonus. It is quite possible to make a reasonable profit never getting any time bonuses. As you noted, there are different ways to setup the jobs, either carrying a single job A->B at high speed, or carrying lots of jobs on shared track for less payout for each individual job. You didn't mention the hazmat licenses, but these open up much more valuable cargo and make it much easier to make a sizable profit even without a time bonus, assuming you don't damage the cargo.

4) The Multiple Unit license is the intermediate step between the DE2 and the DE6. Put 2 or 3 shunters together to haul larger, heavier loads.

5) The military jobs are tremendously lucrative, even more than the hazmat jobs.

6) As a sandbox style game it's really up to the player to set their own challenges. Once having gotten all the licenses I like to take 4x DE6s and bring a 100 car train around the map dropping off and picking up jobs at each station.

[thekins]

15 is absolutely not too fast for shunting i was on the last leg IE dump this off in this empty track as i said i hit the points wrong and went left not right. and 56k for a slight bump is a bit excessive considering it set me back 2-3 hours of grinding

2 insurance rarely actually helps unless you make a SIGNIFICANT error the little boops and bops you might do during the last portion of a run will set you back 20-60k which you are required to pay even with a few licenses

3 the time bonus is objectively bad considering how it completely negates fuel costs/slight repairs. On top of that like I said carrying a bunch of loads a-b-c-d is worth significantly less money than just ripping down track a-b with 3 jobs stacked it just doesnt make sense early/mid game to do anything else late game do whatever you want but mid early slamming down time bonuses is all you can do to turn a decent profit.

4 multiple unit is a step like i mentioned but its a bad step i think a new train something to work towards and look forward to is WAYYYY cooler that hey know that train youve been using for 20 hours? now you can GET THIS drive TWO of the same one! yay! its not great honestly.

5 I know its just so much grinding i dont even care to bother at this point

6 yeah i get that and i agree with ya

[IZHN3000]

I think your dissatisfaction will be mostly resolved with the March "Simulator" update or later update.
The devs plan to implement improved manuals, revamped job system, add many rolling stock.

Publicado originalmente por thekins:

15 is absolutely not too fast for shunting i was on the last leg IE dump this off in this empty track as i said i hit the points wrong and went left not right. and 56k for a slight bump is a bit excessive considering it set me back 2-3 hours of grinding

15 kph is a appropriate or a little slow speed for shunting. However, it's too fast for couple or collision. I think it's speed enough to do 56k damage to the tanker.

Publicado originalmente por thekins:

3 the time bonus is objectively bad considering how it completely negates fuel costs/slight repairs. On top of that like I said carrying a bunch of loads a-b-c-d is worth significantly less money than just ripping down track a-b with 3 jobs stacked it just doesnt make sense early/mid game to do anything else late game do whatever you want but mid early slamming down time bonuses is all you can do to turn a decent profit.

I don't think DE6's fuel consumption is ludicrous. Because making a profit without any time bonuses is not too difficult for me.
Are you using manual maintenance properly?
I don't know ​how you operate the loco, so it's a shame that I can't give you proper advice.

[thekins]

The whole point of this post wasnt to "ask for advice" I know how to make tons of money ive figured the game out. It was simply to point out how weak the game is in the early/mid game which really wear you out if you happen to make mistakes early IE buying the wrong licenses which raises your insurance rate to a ridiculous amount when you have no real way to make money but then the game makes an insane 180 and you cant help but make insane profit. Also to point out how the game is extremely weak in terms of route planning because the time bonus is so high and objectively the best choice rather than actually travelling around the map and picking up/dropping off loads as you make your rounds.
Lastly the lack of a train between the DE2 and DE6 excluding the steam train which feels odd considering the time period this looks to be representing. moar DE2's isnt interesting when you are already bored of driving that train but the DE6 is locked behind a pretty excessive grind. I derailed 1 train and had 1 accident and it set me back MILES which is silly.

[GHKtruc]

Didn't read the whole thing but I'm also going to give some advice for shunting because that's the best way to make money mid/early game. You mention hitting a blue car at 15 mph and getting to pay 56K repair bill. But what was your copay at the time ?

56K bill seems coherent given you hit a hazmat going at 25 km/h instead of 15km/h max. The tanker probably got like 10-15K damage, but then you got hit with the envronmental fine when the content of said tanker started leaking.

There's no "wrong licenses" imo all of them have something worth it. Be it from the cash you'll save from manual maintnance, the huge gain of money from shunting, The long trains of Hazmat you can get from the oil wells...

As far as the DE6 goes, it doesn't use that much fuel. The fact that you don't mention it's also a toaster means you probably didn't try to push it into it's weight limits.
The best way to make cash endgame isn't always getting the bonus for everyjob. Try taking a long train from HB to Steel mill, Oil well central, CSW and Factory.

How much jobs have you been doing to FF-HB ? I find it odd you mention derailing only once, the food factory area and the wye near the loop is one of the worse curve in the game. with cars popping off the rails if you're too slow/too fast or put to much trottle or even for seemingly no reason.

As far as more train for mid game: http://www.derailvalley.com/unlocks/ there's multiple trains in the works, including a few mid games one. In the mean time we can't do anything but wait.

[thekins]

Reading comprehension is strong with this group........ Sometimes I wonder why I even bother

[GHKtruc]

Also please say the licenses that you think are "wrong" ? I never had really too much trouble even before the game put safeguards to force you buying licenses in a specific order.

[schutt]

Yes, i agree on the time bonus part. Its a pain when you have all licences the time left for some routes is incredibly low.
But the devs already said the whole economic will be diffrent in the end, so the time bonus will change then as well.

[Altfuture]

I feel the gang is a bit too defensive here. I have to say that for the most part I agree with thekins feedback. Thanks for the feedback, by the way!

Please have in mind that Derail Valley is in Early Access, so a lot of things are still to be improved and added. Regarding the licenses and collisions - there are no major changes planned there, but the other planned improvements will indirectly affect it:

Namely, mid and late gameplay will be drastically changed later this year (after Simulator). This change will resolve the issues you're describing, such as making shunting punishing, making time bonus OP, and incentivizing A-B-A runs. It will also make planning a lot more interesting and hunting licenses won't be the only player's goal. The more you play, the more engaging the experience will be, rather than less. I don't want to provide too much info just yet however, as any of this won't come anytime soon.

Also coming after Simulator are around 6 new locos, which will fill the gap between DE2 and DE6.

[IZHN3000]

Publicado originalmente por Altfuture:

Please have in mind that Derail Valley is in Early Access, so a lot of things are still to be improved and added. Regarding the licenses and collisions - there are no major changes planned there, but the other planned improvements will indirectly affect it:

Namely, mid and late gameplay will be drastically changed later this year (after Simulator). This change will resolve the issues you're describing, such as making shunting punishing, making time bonus OP, and incentivizing A-B-A runs. It will also make planning a lot more interesting and hunting licenses won't be the only player's goal. The more you play, the more engaging the experience will be, rather than less. I don't want to provide too much info just yet however, as any of this won't come anytime soon.

I find devs plans very attractive! Making money is not the only fun! :)

However, I don't think it's a good idea to reduce the impact of penalties, because it is natural that the amount of damage caused by damage to the rolling stock or cargo caused by the accident will put pressure on the player's finances. Especially, if the people suffer damage during passenger job...
I personally think that the biggest feature of this game is that we can play with a moderate sense of tension to pay attention to prevent accidents.
Perhaps it will be difficult for buffers to safely absorb the kinetic energy of trains that collide at speeds above 10 kph. In other words, I think that the player should bear the appropriate responsibility for the accident that occurred during the shunting.
My opinion may seem conservative and defensive, but I'm purely worried that the horror of the accident (especially, Derail) will diminish.

That said, I know that devs plan to change the difficulty setting drastically, so I expect it will be accepted by a lot of people.

(Of course, I have in mind that Derail Valley is in Early Access. This is something we should never forget.)

[Altfuture]

Collision damage will remain intact.

[IZHN3000]

Publicado originalmente por Altfuture:

Collision damage will remain intact.

I understood it. Thank you!

[Bing987]

I started playing this game a week ago and have put many ten hours playing it. I have to agree with the OP and a few other that the game is way too difficult.

It's very easy to make mistakes that cost a lot of time and money, mostly time (although I hear that later it will be lots of money, too). I am very frustrated with the game. I am a bit bullheaded, so I pressed through the derailments, loose couplings, brake lines, steep grades and whatever. Sometimes it took two hours to make a simple delivery.

Casual players will be thoroughly frustrated with this game. There's just gotta be an easy mode where many of the details can be done for you. Like, auto-coupling. Or automatic route setting. Or auto-driving.

Yeah, I realize that the details are the whole point of the game, but it's just going to turn off all but the hard-core gamers.

[Staines]

Also agreeing with some of the new players here. Mistakes are far too punishing.

I feel like this would be a stronger game if it had a similar feeling to Kerbal Space Program. KSP tricks you by introducing you to orbital mechanics in a casual way at first, and doesn't overly punish the player for learning unfamiliar concepts.

It doesn't much of a deduction in funds for a player to want to avoid the mistake in the future. Let players make a couple of mistakes here and there without having to lose hours of progress.

[Altfuture]

Thanks Bing987 and Staines.

One bit I'd ask if you both could clarify is, in what way do mistakes cause loss of time and money? At the start of the game insurance cost is $100. That's the maximum cost you need to pay, no matter what happens. Sure it's a bit higher after buying some licenses, but not tremendously so (and this will be reduced in Simulator). And at any point you can just abandoned a derailed train and take another job.

So, I'm curious what mistakes, costs and overall situation occurred that caused you the frustration?

Thanks!