Sorry to find out, but this is the only train sim with decent physics.

[Unster]

Lately I've been kind of desperately looking for another train sim because I want more content (more trains, other maps & scenarios, signalling etc.), so I was looking at other games like Run8, Train Simulator, Train Sim World and Trainz, mostly on YouTube as well as forums and I even tried Train Simulator 2020 but I wasn't impressed. None of these games have decent derailments, often none, and sometimes the cabin sway is way off. Diesel Railcar Simulator is another I tried, actually before I even found DV, but the graphics are dated and while it has decent sway and driving physics, again no derailment is possible. It's not that I really wish to see horrible train accidents on my screen, but I want that to be the consequence for reckless driving.

Basically, no consequence = no danger = no fun. That's how I look at it. So kudos to Altfuture for developing this masterpiece (even with the occasional false derailment), and I really look forward to the big update as well as more content.

[Big Red]

As a fan of both DV and Run8, I have to say that DV’s physics are fairly arcadey. It’s very easy to detail in situations where it probably wouldn’t happen in real life. Run8 is very realistic in terms of the physics of its train handling, including breaking knuckles if you pull to hard. Though, at the end of the day, the two games are filling different niches. Run8 is a much more serious simulator made for a realistic simulation. While, on the other hand, DV is essentially an arcade train simulator. If you put Derail in the title and tout them as a big feature, the game can’t be that realistic.

[Unster]

Like I said, there is that occasional false derailment, say a middle car derailing on a turn at low speed, but that's getting fixed in the next update. Otherwise I'd say the derailment is pretty realistic. Run8 seems to be a serious simulation, but without the ability to derail, I don't see how you can call it a simulation. That's like a racing / driving simulator where you can't crash. I'd call that a big fail.

[Metallos]

On many train simulators with licenced stuff the companys can make "no derails" as requirement, especially in times where players make derail videos on Youtube. That's why you can't derail the CSX trains in TSW, for example.
But in MSTS you can derail your train if you're too fast.

In Run8 I managed only to break a coupler while geetting the train to move uphill after a signal. Ok, it was on my first ride...

DV will get an overhaul so you don't derail too much.

[Unster]

@Metallos I've read that too (train sims not being allowed to derail licensed locomotives) but I think that's mostly speculation, as it is actually possible to derail in games like TS and TSW (per YouTube videos), it's just unrealistically difficult to do so.

It's actually quite puzzling that even a "sim" like Run8 that tries to take itself seriously can't at least pop up a message and end the scenario in case of an imminent derailment. That would be enough for me to call it realistic. I have a hard time believing that the locomotive manufacturers would demand games to portray their product as invincible, and I don't think that's what's happening here. On one of the Run8 forums I actually saw some people being happy that you can't derail, as if the possibility could mess up their day. OK, then maybe they shouldn't be playing with trains.

[Altfuture]

It's interesting to read this. Idea to create Derail Valley actually came from realizing that there's no train simulator out there with decent physics, gameplay and business strategy. I'm glad it's now used as a measure of what the genre should include.

Couldn't agree more on the aspect that no danger = no fun. Really the purpose of derailing in our game is to give your good driving value. You avoid derailing because there are consequences, and that fear is something that train drivers deal with too, on a daily basis. It must be simulated in a train simulator, how can something that important be neglected just because "it never happens"? Let us understand and appreciate why it never happens.

I remember being amazed by MSTS back around 2002. Later that same year Trainz blew my mind. It was just unbelievably good. And then nothing new happened... for nearly two decades.

Since then I'd been growing as a game developer, and somewhere around 2014 have been developing my first standalone game Switchcars, when a couple of friends and I decided to try out one of the latest train simulators. We played and concluded that it was so bad, we could make a better one ourselves. Mind you, at this point we had no money and were random three people somewhere in Serbia. At the same time Dovetail and N3V were making millions.

It's insane what these companies could have accomplished with their resources, if they cared to do anything useful.

In 2016, when Switchcars was released and VR happened, we gave the next-gen train sim idea a second thought. It made a lot of sense and we just started doing it.

We started literally from nothing, and I'm proud of what we were able to accomplish. Can't wait to get Overhauled out there.

[BroJo]

I agree that the physics in this game makes it more fun. I recently got Train Sim World 2020, which runs in the Unreal engine, and it is beautiful to look at, but the physics are poor. There is no slack in the consist, the air brakes are poorly modeled, and the traction is unrealistic.

[Unster]

BroJo, yeah I've looked at TSW as well, almost bought it because the graphics were quite good, but the physics are bad, even worse than TS (by the same company) from what I've seen. Shame.

Altfuture, good story and glad to see we think exactly the same way. You said it even better when you said that the danger gives your good driving a value. Absolutely. Otherwise what's the point? In other train sims like Diesel Railcar you may get penalized for breaking the speed limit, but that's it. That's hardly a danger and it's boring. That game would be good if derailment was possible.

You know one game I haven't mentioned, because it's not a train sim but it has really good physics and you can actually drive a train as a mod, is BeamNG. You know a game has great physics when it accurately simulates an object that it was never meant to simulate like a train. The only problem there is that it's not a train sim and placing a train on tracks is a pain and train-related content is very limited, since it's primarily a car driving sim. But I love it as much as DV for the same reason: realism & consequences for bad driving. One thing that it has that DV doesn't is trains flipping on their side when taking a turn too fast. I know Altfuture mentioned in the past that this was experimented with in DV, but it would be nice if it could be made to work.

[Unster]

I'm actually giving Diesel Railcar Simulator another try. Like I said the physics are quite detailed & authentic. You can't derail yet, but it's on the wishlist and may be added later. I might keep it this time, and it could be a good complement to DV (mostly old passenger trains as opposed to cargo).

[SpiritFire]

the main thing for me is the expressive feeling i got when i first donned my VR headset and walked around the shunter the first time... then climbed into it. a huge grin was on my face the whole time like a cat with a mouse or a cheshire cat. i wondered if my wife heard my crazy laughter. a feeling of excitement i just didnt get when i played my Run8 or the others because it just felt so real. only time ive had that thrill was when i actually got to go on board a GP santa fe engine when i was a kid. that alone makes it quite different for me. as a long time train simmer, my negatives were not the same some that were said here... i felt the the derailment and such here is WAY over the top, but it is my understanding these things have been fixed, we just have been waiting for the update.

the only thing the other sims have over this one in MY book is I cant use my train controller (RailDriver) on this title yet, but its been mentioned that may come. oh boy - watch out if it does. were talking angelic singing. i know some may wonder how you would use it with a vr on your head.. but it doesnt stop me from using my hotus for flying, or from ray charles from playing crazy things on a piano. touch and feel. some would use it who dont play vr im sure, but this has nothing to do with the physics being discussed here.
other than xplane and dcs - this title is the only other one i find worth having a vr headset for.

[Unster]

Update regarding Diesel Railcar Simulator. I like it now a lot, and the current lack of derailment isn't a big issue if you play it as intended. Anyway, speaking to the dev it sounded like derailment will be added. It's actually quite challenging to drive those trains properly and on schedule. That and DV are now my favorite and only train sims.

[SpiritFire]

yea i looked that title up after i saw it in the othert thread. looks interesting.

[Unster]

Publicado originalmente por SpiritFire:

yea i looked that title up after i saw it in the othert thread. looks interesting.

On this forum? I think this is the only thread where it's mentioned. It's another early access game with a small team from what I gather. A good companion to DV. The brakes work a little differently there. They build up & release vacuum slower and you can "lap" the brakes. I wonder if this feature is missing from DV, but I don't know since these are different train/loco models.

[Metallos]

Brakes in DV and other train simulators don't use vacuum brakes (except on some steam locos) because they aren't used since decades (and aren't reliable / safe), pressurised brakes are common (but you need pressure to release the brake).

[Unster]

These are British trains from the 60's so I figured they'd be different, though DV has some old locomotives too, even the shunter. In the case of vacuum brakes, as I recall vacuum is needed to release the brakes, so it's a similar concept where the brakes are on by default.

[Metallos]

Ok, GB had vacuum brakes in the 60's. America and Continental Europe at that time have used already air brakes (especially due to freight trains) since decades (for example the Knorr brake in Germany since end of the twenties).

So in DV even for the steamer the air brake is correct and the shunter is not as old as you think, the shunter is basing on the quite new ZS 621 (the interieur is fictive): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BDS_series_621
Ok, in the game it looks like pulled out of the junkyard...