Half circle motions are very tricky to do in a keyboard/hitbox: can they be reviewed?

[⭐alb3530]

In a keyboard or hitbox, it's very tricky to perform half circle motions (like HCB or HCF), because you must do the strict right motion without pressing opposite directions (i.e. left and right).


The correct motion (performed in a regular XBOX controller, for example) for a Half Circle Back (HCB) is:
right, down-right, down, down-left, left

but when using a keyboard, it's often performed as

right, down-right, down-left (while still holding right, due to finger placement), left


In Mame and FinalBurnAlpha emulators, you can do the motion without worrying about avoiding pressing opposite directions, and the move will come out easily. I suspect that's how a real machine would behave, as both emulators work in that same way.


The image below shows the game inputs when a HCB. (Note the down-left + right input)

https://imgur.com/a/Nyxbsxp


Example moves are Dhalsim's Yoga Flame in SFII: CE, and Guy's Bushin Muso Renge in SFA3 (this one requires two HCB motions)


Is there any way of ease things out? Newer games like "Street Fighter V: Arcade Edition" doesn't have this problem.

It's painful to perform those moves currently.

[Florence]

Half-circles are strict in 30th Anniversary because they're strict in the original games. It's a bit outside the scope of what this collection is about to ask them to simplify inputs for 19+ year old games.

As a keyboard Q player who routinely uses his command grab (HCB+K), it really is a matter of just practicing the motion; I can do it just as reliably on 30th Anniversary as I can on Fightcade (which uses FBA). Go into training mode, and "piano" the keys; right, right+down, down, left+down, left. If you practice that motion enough, muscle memory will kick in and it'll become second nature.

[ye]

I agree with this. I cannot execute half circle at all...

[Tyewhoppety]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von delatroy:

I agree with this. I cannot execute half circle at all...

+1 on that.

I've tested the game in a PC of a friend, and I can confirm I had the same problem, and just hope it can be addressed someway!

I'd like to buy the game, but this is a deal breaker for me.

An option to fix that should be implemented to give keyboard users a better experience.

Not everyone is willing to waste hours training to adapt to something arcade (and even console) emulators already do.

Of course, the original arcade could be like just this, but this collection should be flexible once it's available in many platforms, given the mixed kind of controllers players can use.

We already have filters to make more people happy (arcade didn't had filters), people are already asking for 3P and 3K mapping (arcade didn't had this as well), and giving keyboard users such a option would be cool.

[Florence]

It's worth mentioning that if your keyboard doesn't have NKRO, you may have difficulty doing certain inputs that require you to press multiple buttons at once. Half-circles would fall under that, since a player who hits punch/kick while they're currently on D+B (holding two keyboard keys) would trigger 2KRO on a bad membrane keyboard.

I can record videos of half-circles working just fine on my end, and unlike controllers that rely on dinput/xinput there shouldn't be any driver issues preventing all keyboards from functioning correctly.

Try doing the input slowly in training mode with input display on.

• Hold towards.
  
• While still holding towards, start holding down.
  
• Release your finger from towards.
  
• Start holding back.
  
• Release your finger from down, and at the same time, hit P/K, whichever is relevant for the move you're trying to do.

This piano motion lets you do half-circles 100% of the time, and it works perfectly here as well. If you do it any other way in a fighter and it still works, it may be because you're relying on that game's input leniency to compensate for imperfect execution.

[⭐alb3530]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Flotilla:

As a keyboard Q player who routinely uses his command grab (HCB+K), it really is a matter of just practicing the motion; I can do it just as reliably on 30th Anniversary as I can on Fightcade (which uses FBA)...

I tried Q command grab, and also Dhalsim's Yoga Flame, and I can reliably do them on SF 30th by doing: (Yoga Flame example)

Back, down-back, down, then down, down-forward, forward + P

For HCF and HCB, it's doable for me (now that I find that way), but still, doing an SPD or SFA3 Guy's super (mentioned before) is a no go for me....

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Flotilla:

...Go into training mode, and "piano" the keys; right, right+down, down, left+down, left. If you practice that motion enough, muscle memory will kick in and it'll become second nature.

I'm trying, but I see no way of succeeding. For the SPD, I get it sometimes if I look at the keyboard, but I can't do that in a match. I tried to play World Warrior with Zangief, but finished the game only hitting two SPDs :(

Whenever I can apply a SPD, I always think it won't come out, and in fact, the move doesn't come out :(

In Hyper Fighting and ST, it's worse, due to faster game speed.

Let alone 720º and SFA3 Guy's command grab super....

I wish I had your ability, but it's frustrating not being able to do moves that come out so naturally in MAME.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Flotilla:

It's worth mentioning that if your keyboard doesn't have NKRO, you may have difficulty doing certain inputs that require you to press multiple buttons at once. Half-circles would fall under that, since a player who hits punch/kick while they're currently on D+B (holding two keyboard keys) would trigger 2KRO on a bad membrane keyboard.

I can record videos of half-circles working just fine on my end, and unlike controllers that rely on dinput/xinput there shouldn't be any driver issues preventing all keyboards from functioning correctly.

Try doing the input slowly in training mode with input display on.

• Hold towards.
  
• While still holding towards, start holding down.
  
• Release your finger from towards.
  
• Start holding back.
  
• Release your finger from down, and at the same time, hit P/K, whichever is relevant for the move you're trying to do.

This piano motion lets you do half-circles 100% of the time, and it works perfectly here as well. If you do it any other way in a fighter and it still works, it may be because you're relying on that game's input leniency to compensate for imperfect execution.

NKRO here.

The worst part for me is:

Release your finger from towards.

All the times I miss the move, is because I keep holding towards when pressing back, and so the move won't come out.

As I said before, I tried sometimes and succeeded, but a 720º or SFA3 Guy's command grab super is just impossible at the moment.

I'll keep trying, but I see no way of being consistent with the inputs....

[Florence]

It's just a matter of muscle memory in that case; the act of releasing your finger from towards before moving on to back is just something you need to get used to.

It took me a decent amount of time to get it down myself, since I did it in Guilty Gear #Reload (which has very unforgiving half-circles), but you have nowhere to go but up so long as you keep practicing.

[joeriley121]

It works perfectly in Third Strike, but every other game seems to have issues with it.
And I don't really buy the 'It's strict in the original games thing.' SNK pulled the same thing
with their rerelease of KoF on Steam, yet players pointed out that the Arcade Emulation available in the game had zero issues with the input. The fact that they're not nearly as strict in Third Strike (I can pull off Alex's Power Bomb with Zero issue in that game) kind of makes that hard to believe.

[⭐alb3530]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Joseph:

It works perfectly in Third Strike, but every other game seems to have issues with it.
And I don't really buy the 'It's strict in the original games thing.' SNK pulled the same thing
with their rerelease of KoF on Steam, yet players pointed out that the Arcade Emulation available in the game had zero issues with the input. The fact that they're not nearly as strict in Third Strike (I can pull off Alex's Power Bomb with Zero issue in that game) kind of makes that hard to believe.

Interesting.....

Just tested, and I also can do the Power Bomb 100% of times.

However, I can't say the same for Q's command grab (HCB + K).

As a side note, Power Bomb move can be done with Forward, Down, Back and Punch: you don't even need diagonals for that move, differently from Q's move.


As for the arcade-like inputs, I don't have a real machine to test it. I just find it weird both MAME and FinalBurnAlpha register the moves the way I do (still overlapping opposite directions). It could be that input layer in those emulators are above the emulated machine, so that they control the input: whether the real machine accepts or not doesn't matter, 'cause the emulator that handles the inputs.

Anyway, I'll continue training, but I'm not very optmistic about doing the moves consistently.

[Liam Neeson Punching Wolves]

The game has major stick issues on PC.

Sometimes inputs will outright stop. Sometimes it won't even reg the stick.

[Brandon]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Liam Neeson Punching Wolves:

The game has major stick issues on PC.

Sometimes inputs will outright stop. Sometimes it won't even reg the stick.

Have you proven this by going into training mode and checking your inputs?

[Florence]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Liam Neeson Punching Wolves:

The game has major stick issues on PC.

Sometimes inputs will outright stop. Sometimes it won't even reg the stick.

There should be zero keyboard issues unless your keyboard has some wonky extra driver acting as an unnecessary middleman between it and the game. I've tried 3 different keyboards, they all register diagonals just fine.

[RKZA]

It seems to be character specific

Half circle moves I can input 100% of the time: Yun Zenpou Tenshin, Yang Zenpou Tenshin, Hugo and Alex command grabs, Oro's command grab

Moves that don't come out at all: Q's CNDB, Makoto Karakusa

[⭐alb3530]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Arczer:

It seems to be character specific

Half circle moves I can input 100% of the time: Yun Zenpou Tenshin, Yang Zenpou Tenshin, Hugo and Alex command grabs, Oro's command grab

Moves that don't come out at all: Q's CNDB, Makoto Karakusa

Alex Power Bomb = You don't need diagonals
Makoto Karakusa = You need diagonals


I currently can do the Half Circle moves that require diagonals by doing:

F, DF, D, then D, DB, B

The problem is it's not the fastest way to to them....