Why so much complaining about Super Turbo A.I (don't get me wrong)

[Dacaskos]

The U.S version super cheap A.I actually teaches a lot about game fundamentals AND about whichever character you're playing with AND against.
Don't know why people whine about it so much. It's not like you're playing on the arcade machine and you have to spend quarters on it. You can try many times you want. You can even save state in this collection.
I've been playing for so long and still only managed to 1CC (1 credit finish) on lvl 8 with Ryu and Guile (I guess with Vega once I don't know, I think it wasnt 1cc). Been trying with Dhalsim for some time now, no luck, and you know what... that's awesome, because shows a person can replay it like forever. It's that damn hard, but it actually teaches you a lot. It's such a fun game to lose because the enemy A.I is heavily scripted, but so overpower when it gets you that you really feel like playing a Tomo Ohira guy of some sort.

I guess it has something with achievements? Just pick Vega/claw. Vega is a cheap character to play against the A.I (well, vega is a cheap character to play against anyone). He has insane range (can beat the game using down strong/fiece), the special moves break some of the scripted A.I a lot, he has the backhandspring evade maneauver (three kicks). Against T.Hawk just use that and throw = Win, for example.

Super Turbo A.I taught me how to play the game, because in 1994 I was like, seven, and in my country/city didn't have much original Super Turbo boards to begin with (the CPS2 frenzy started with the Alpha series where I lived) so I started playing it far beyond its release. I'm no near of being good, but you can learn to survive some matches against players far more skilled, and that by ONLY playing against this "wonderful", cheap A.I

[Sweeper]

i dont think its hard. on the contrary it is super easy. all the fighters behave alike. just didnt fionish it because i do online arcade and whenever i beat a character it says here comes a new challenger

[Dacaskos]

it's not that hard. Some matchups are not good of course, and it gets worse if you don't know how to play with that character. The cheapness relies also on heavy damage, but that's okay I think because makes you more cautious. It's like playing Alpha 2 on Expert. The CPU damage is ridiculous (like, ken's shoryuken takes almost as a LVL 3 super), but if you play it on normal difficulty, the game becomes too easy because the A.I is not "exploit proof"
But overall, is fun. It's not a case of classic "Snk Boss Syndrome", which is ridiculous, and I don't see people complaining as much.

But I do think that 1CC this game is super hard. You can't make mistakes.

[Sweeper]

Originally posted by Dacaskos:

it's not that hard. Some matchups are not good of course, and it gets worse if you don't know how to play with that character. The cheapness relies also on heavy damage, but that's okay I think because makes you more cautious. It's like playing Alpha 2 on Expert. The CPU damage is ridiculous (like, ken's shoryuken takes almost as a LVL 3 super), but if you play it on normal difficulty, the game becomes too easy because the A.I is not "exploit proof"
But overall, is fun. It's not a case of classic "Snk Boss Syndrome", which is ridiculous, and I don't see people complaining as much.

But I do think that 1CC this game is super hard. You can't make mistakes.

try kof13 end boss. or the orochi saga lol

[Seven]

People are frustrated when they can't beat something and will complain about it as an "issue" instead of trying to get around it.
In the other side there are people which like hard difficulty as long as they can see that some people can beat it.
I'm one of them, as long as it's beatable, i'm fine with it, it doesn't matter the difficulty but maybe i'm selfish.
If i beat something too easily, i'm quickly bored, for example the ai in SFV bored me really fast even at lvl 8.
Also i'm not that good, i just insist and try over and over.
What i like with sf2x is like you said, the thing your learn vs ai can be usefull even for match vs human.

[seedmole]

pretty sure this game is broken because the AI formerly was gated by slow processing speed. now these AI get access to practically instantaneous processing power and cannot be overwhelmed by good play. the physics of microprocessors is at work, no amount of programming would offset this.

[Sp00kyFox]

Originally posted by seedmole:

pretty sure this game is broken because the AI formerly was gated by slow processing speed. now these AI get access to practically instantaneous processing power and cannot be overwhelmed by good play. the physics of microprocessors is at work, no amount of programming would offset this.

it's emulated. the game doesn't perform different when you throw more CPU power at it.

[mrrogers]

I dont get why the AI in modern fighting games is still so terrible and bad. The AI in super turbo is arguably as good as the AI in sf 5 almost 30 years later. Nothing evolved or changed. I guess its mostly about MP so they dont care, but after the community dies off the AI is always there. AI adds replayability. Id like to see AI that mimics a human and has to see and react like a person. Maybe learns from players to improve and adapt to meta.

[Sp00kyFox]

Killer Instinct tried to do that with the Shadow AIs. yeah but in general it's too much development investment for something that doesn't make the game sell more. basic AI script behavior is good enough in most cases.

[seedmole]

Originally posted by Sp00kyFox:

Originally posted by seedmole:

pretty sure this game is broken because the AI formerly was gated by slow processing speed. now these AI get access to practically instantaneous processing power and cannot be overwhelmed by good play. the physics of microprocessors is at work, no amount of programming would offset this.

it's emulated. the game doesn't perform different when you throw more CPU power at it.

maybe a perfect emulation would behave like you're suggesting. but however it's occuring, the game is not behaving the same under the hood.

[Tom Cruise]

Originally posted by seedmole:

pretty sure this game is broken because the AI formerly was gated by slow processing speed. now these AI get access to practically instantaneous processing power and cannot be overwhelmed by good play. the physics of microprocessors is at work, no amount of programming would offset this.

Please stop spewing this nonsense. Just stop it.

[#THE_THICCNESS]

Because their instant reaction times among other things rewards you for looking for ways to cheese the broken input-reading AI rather than actually play the game skillfully as you would against other humans. Also, I've heard numerous times that the AI is stuck at max-difficulty regardless of what setting it's on, which I definitely believe since I seriously couldn't see any difference at all between difficulty 1 and 8. That alone would be enough for me to consider it bad, but on top of that, they blatantly do more damage than you as well.

[R69NiX]

Originally posted by n'wah:

Because their instant reaction times among other things rewards you for looking for ways to cheese the broken input-reading AI rather than actually play the game skillfully as you would against other humans. Also, I've heard numerous times that the AI is stuck at max-difficulty regardless of what setting it's on, which I definitely believe since I seriously couldn't see any difference at all between difficulty 1 and 8. That alone would be enough for me to consider it bad, but on top of that, they blatantly do more damage than you as well.

This.

The AI blatantly "cheats" they can do charge moves without needing to charge. They can read your inputs in microseconds and react to them in microseconds. No player on earth can do that. So you just come up with strats to cheese/beat them which would never work against real players, so it teaches you nothing.

[Tom Cruise]

The game was never about teaching you anything. The games were about taking your quarters. These are arcade games from the 90's. Please have some perspective. I know most of you kids commenting were probably not even born yet.

[Dacaskos]

If the A.I could read the input at microseconds everytime, it wouldn't be possible to sweep spamming in a lot of cases. It wouldn't be possible to jump kick. It wouldn't be possible to hit Ryu or Ken because they would Shoryuken react your every move. It wouldn't be possible to beat Guile. It wouldn't be possible to beat Akuma either. It wouldn't be possible to throw your opponents.

The fact it is heavily scripted, and yes, the A.I will react according what you're doing but people make it up like if it were Karate Champ after your beat like 10 tournaments.
THAT's example of cheap, read on input A.I (in fact you can actually break it by cancelling any move youre doing and just front flip to the back of the A.I and back kick them on that game)
or take Mortal Kombat 3 for example. That's also hella cheap A.I right there.

ST's AI is cheap, but it's not impossible. You have to know the move properties of your character as well opponents. If fact, it makes a lot of mistakes, but still teaches you a lot when it gets you. You don't learn by beating the A.I. You learn by losing to it.

The problem is, yes, the difficulty settings doesn't do much, that's a well documented issue on this version. But at LVL 1 the cpu does less damage afaik. And yes, about their damaging being so High, it's cheap to drain your quarters, but any Street Fighter game on Hard will do that and that makes you more cautious.

Charge moves are indeed non-buffered when performed by the A.I, but that happens on every Street Fighter game.

The japanese version (which is easier) is also hard. Probably most people would complain about it anyway.

[R69NiX]

Originally posted by Dacaskos:

If the A.I could read the input at microseconds everytime, it wouldn't be possible to sweep spamming in a lot of cases. It wouldn't be possible to jump kick. It wouldn't be possible to hit Ryu or Ken because they would Shoryuken react your every move. It wouldn't be possible to beat Guile. It wouldn't be possible to beat Akuma either. It wouldn't be possible to throw your opponents.

The fact it is heavily scripted, and yes, the A.I will react according what you're doing but people make it up like if it were Karate Champ after your beat like 10 tournaments.
THAT's example of cheap, read on input A.I (in fact you can actually break it by cancelling any move youre doing and just front flip to the back of the A.I and back kick them on that game)
or take Mortal Kombat 3 for example. That's also hella cheap A.I right there.

ST's AI is cheap, but it's not impossible. You have to know the move properties of your character as well opponents. If fact, it makes a lot of mistakes, but still teaches you a lot when it gets you. You don't learn by beating the A.I. You learn by losing to it.

The problem is, yes, the difficulty settings doesn't do much, that's a well documented issue on this version. But at LVL 1 the cpu does less damage afaik. And yes, about their damaging being so High, it's cheap to drain your quarters, but any Street Fighter game on Hard will do that and that makes you more cautious.

Charge moves are indeed non-buffered when performed by the A.I, but that happens on every Street Fighter game.

The japanese version (which is easier) is also hard. Probably most people would complain about it anyway.

No one said it does it everytime. But it does do it. And you can see it a mile away. Are you saying you've never seen it do that?

Dude, come one, we've been playing games for years, we know when AI is being cheap af and this AI is doing exactly that. There's a difference between something being really hard, but fair in a fun way and being really hard and cheap in an annoying way.

It's not impossible, many people have beaten it, myself included, but when I finished it I just felt relieved it was over rather than the satifsfaction of beating something hard (ooh err! ^_^)

Originally posted by imfuraisoth:

The game was never about teaching you anything. The games were about taking your quarters. These are arcade games from the 90's. Please have some perspective. I know most of you kids commenting were probably not even born yet.

So were all the other games that came before AND after and we're fine with it.

ST AI is a pain in the ass, that's all we're saying. It shouldn't be that bad. And it's pretty much accepted in the SF community that it sucks. Why do you guys have a problem with people acknowledging that?