I'm a new player, but it feels like Susano'o needs a bit of a rework.

[Firaeveus Carron]

First off, me being new to BBCF means – right off the bat – that I don't possess the expertise required to faithfully and accurately judge new characters. However, as a BB console vet, I have played the last few games and sunk a few hundred hours into each of them.

My sentiment concerning Susano'o seems to resonate well with the general public, according to what I have been reading at least. The problem with Susano'o, in my opinion, is that the character starts off with a very limited moveset. Having to evolve a character from scratch with each game is an interesting concept, but the problem I'm seeing is that Susano'o doesn't even feel extremely powerful when you end up unlocking the rest of his moveset.

I don't think ASW should scrap the evolution / unlock mechanic for Susano'o, I am merely of the opinion that Susano'o should at least start with all of his abilities unlocked right from the begining but the special move upgrades should remain unlockable. Furthermore, more special move upgrade levels could be added to compensate for the special moves that only have one base level at the moment.

Starting the game off with only 236A as a special move feels rough, especially when Susano'o doesn't even become an extremely powerful character after several of his other special moves have been unlocked.

Thoughts?

[edger]

he needs removing entirely

[Krono]

The only issue with that idea with him unlocking all of his seals from the get go is that he would feel too easy in a sense. You can easily pull off 4K combos without even breaking a sweat with his 4th , 5th and last seal. They all can combo into each other and do waaay too much damage for the amount of effort you’re putting into using them.

[FlyingTorcensoredWhale]

Susanoo is clearly a snowballing character. His matches go either extremely well for him if he gets early initiative or extremely bad if he is forced to get defensive. But to be fair.

His buttons are good.

5B? On of the best normals in game, amazing neutral potential, great hit and hurtboxes, short recovery.
6B? Great pressuring and frametrapping tool.
And so on. After they've fixed his prorations, bringing him some good and proper UNGA damage, he is not half-bad. I'd even say, he is in a fairly decent spot, mid-high in the roster. And online Susanoo is just UNGA galore with delay favouring him quite a lot.

Notice how incredibly FAST he can snowball out of proportions if he can start swinging. He can unlock multiple seals in one combo, he can dish out 4k+ damage consistently (and that's not something to dismiss, considering healthpools in this game).

He just struggles in some MUs, mostly against high tiers of this game. But who doesn't struggle against a good Izayoi or Nine? But because he has a tendency to snowball and fail/win IMPRESSIVELY, that's why it feels that when match goes badly for him, it goes super bad. On the other hand, when match goes as planned, it looks just as one-sided.

[D'style]

Susano'o problem imo is his lack of tool to open up the enemy. his seals when unlocked mostly offer more damage in form of combo extention and only few that has uses other than in combo like the DP or aerial sonic roll (this overhead is sucks btw). also his dash has a startup so microdash into a grab is a no go, and with the big hurtbox, closing the gap between you and your opponent is quite hard, especially againts zoner

So yeah.. it's a matter of land a hit, unlocked the seals, and destroy your opponent EZ PZ Hakaishin style. or your opponent get the upperhand and you lose horribly while playing "the strongest character in BB" (by role, at least)

[Firaeveus Carron]

Originally posted by FlyingTorpedoWhale:

Susanoo is clearly a snowballing character. His matches go either extremely well for him if he gets early initiative or extremely bad if he is forced to get defensive. But to be fair.

His buttons are good.

5B? On of the best normals in game, amazing neutral potential, great hit and hurtboxes, short recovery.
6B? Great pressuring and frametrapping tool.
And so on. After they've fixed his prorations, bringing him some good and proper UNGA damage, he is not half-bad. I'd even say, he is in a fairly decent spot, mid-high in the roster. And online Susanoo is just UNGA galore with delay favouring him quite a lot.

Notice how incredibly FAST he can snowball out of proportions if he can start swinging. He can unlock multiple seals in one combo, he can dish out 4k+ damage consistently (and that's not something to dismiss, considering healthpools in this game).

He just struggles in some MUs, mostly against high tiers of this game. But who doesn't struggle against a good Izayoi or Nine? But because he has a tendency to snowball and fail/win IMPRESSIVELY, that's why it feels that when match goes badly for him, it goes super bad. On the other hand, when match goes as planned, it looks just as one-sided.

I've been using Susano'o a bit more today and I feel a little bit better about him. However, I am still of the opinion that he should have more special moves available for use at the start of a battle. It seems quite easy to kite and bait Susano'o at the start of a match because his only quick and reasonably safe means of approaching at that point are via air dashing and 236A. His ground dash has a very obvious tell and start up lag; I almost don't even use it unless my opponent is airborne and retreating.

I find myself usually aiming to unlock 214B (4th unlock), 236B (5th unlock) and 236D (8th unlock) in no particular order before anything else. I like unlocking 214B early because it gives me access to another much needed gap closer, one that can dodge many crouch-level attacks. 236B is a nice combo extender in accordance with being a good gap closer. 236D has ridiculous range and appears to reliably wallbounce opponents when it is a counter hit.

I am able to deal out very good damage when I can reach my opponents, but I'm still struggling against characters with numerous projectiles and long range attacks (edit: in the early game, IF they can keep me from unlocking and upgrading). However, I plan on getting decent with Susano'o in order to switch things up for a change, as I have almost exclusively played Azrael in BBCP.

[FlyingTorcensoredWhale]

Don't dismiss his hitscan projectile as a mean for safe unlocks or ensuring your approach. 6A that is.

Also, importance of his unlocks depend on MU. For instance, if you aren't fighting a zoner, you might want to get his DP unlocked ASAP. It might be a game changer in some scenarios, where you either allow your opponent to reign free on his turn with no fear of reversal or hinder his pressure just by throwing it out there.

And learn wich MUs favour 5B roundstart. For instance, 5B roundstart against Nine is suicide, she knows about that (most likely) and that puts you in a position where it is hard to gain early momentum. But when 5B is a danger for opponent, it is them who has to guess, not you. And you can play from there.

For instance, Kagura is likely to up back and roundstart, because he has no way of beating 5B except for YOLO flashkick and his hurtbox is too big to back away and make 5B wiff - it will be blocked.

Give Sus more time, basically, yeah.

It's not CF1.0 Sus, who was absolute trashcan.

[Bikko]

Give him some time to learn him. He snowballs hard whenever he gets his seals off, heck, even without seals his buttons are pretty decent.

[Shaniril]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp7gqDkmyk8

Two susano'o players in top 8. Character is fine.

[Urufi faux champion]

Every character has their own drive move/play style and if you don't like unlocking moves pick someone else.

[Firaeveus Carron]

Originally posted by Urufī Chanpion:

Every character has their own drive move/play style and if you don't like unlocking moves pick someone else.

This thread isn't about enjoying Susano'o as he is or picking someone else if you don't. This thread is concerned with discussing whether or not he needs a bit of a change.

[Solemen Wolf]

I think he is fine because...

• He has the second most HP in the game
  
• He hits like a truck even with or without locked specials
  
• His DP is the second locked skill and can be easily unlocked if desired
  
• His OD ables him to use locked specials (at MAX level) without them being unlocked which helps him
  
• His buttons can hit once or twice which can help you unlock certain abilities
  
• Another note about his buttons is that they have really good range
  
• Once he has momentum, he can seriously rekt you if he keeps at it.
  
• Many of his locked special covers almost every situation he needs for certain match up

Honestly, he is a very hard character to play because you have to be aware of the situation and be very knowledgable on what leads into what to unlock specific specials (and what to unlock is very match up dependant). However, once you have some general ideas and practice, he is VERY rewarding to play and these tourney matches show that. You don't need to unlock every special, just some that are required to help you win.

You have to be very commited to this character to be better, prepare to lose a lot and learn as you go. If you don't like it, just play a different character because not every character requires that amount of work.

[Urufi faux champion]

Originally posted by Forest:

He's the weakest character.
That's all.

Unless he gets off his seals then it gets scary as heck

[Shazbot]

ignorant thread

[Calcifer]

Originally posted by Shazbot the Brave:

ignorant thread

Calling others ignorant, while adding nothing to the topic.

OP: Susanoo is fine, he has pretty good normals.

[didgereedoodah]

The problem with this kind of discussion is that the way ArcSys balances games, huge "reworks" only really happen between games, not as a balance patch. Considering Susano'oh's role in the story, it's pretty much guaranteed that he won't be in the next game (whenever that is), and so we can dream of how we can fix Susano'oh but this is as good as he is ever going to be.

He's not the worst character in the game, but people generally accept that he's not getting any better, so they make the most of what they got.