I want to like this game....

[[1stA]Zap Rowsdower]

New to the wargame series but I've been playing RTS's for over 20 years. I picked this up on GOG on sale a few days ago. Firstly, I love the premise and execution of the game. It looks and plays fantastic, the scale is immense , but I can't say I love it. The scenarios are challenging, but not in the sense I would like. Having the AI be OP is not a challenge or fun. Neither is it fun that using real world tactics in this game simply don't work. (I was an abrams gunner in the USMC).

The best scenario that displays this is "1914 all over again" You're meant to be on the defensive on good ground, only you start further away from the defensive positions then the Russians. That wouldent happen in real life. Instead what it is is a giant game of rock paper scissors. Oh, you only have patton tanks? There's almost no chance agaisnt the AI with superior tanks and far more points. It's a game that seems to reward memorization of stats and using the best units you can get. Which is fine, if it also rewarded a well thought out strategy. Sure, T-80's are superior to pattons, that doesnt mean when my pattons ambush T-80's from the flank and get off a few shots the T-80's just turn and one shot my tanks.

An example of a game that I would say rewards proper use of tactics would be the combat mission series, and I'm hyped about the upcoming Combat Mission: Black sea.


Having said all that I like it enough to want to try more games in the series. How does red dragon compare? If I kind of like Wargame:EE would I enjoy Red Dragon?

[Roffe]

Rock paper scissor? 1914? Sorry but I got to tell you that you have no idea how this game works. It took me a while to undestand the basic for this game but once you get it the game becomes amazing.

Huge post below. Sorry if I ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up my grammar and if a sentence is half finished. I went up and down and changed a lot and I'm to lazy to clean it. Have fun.

(BTW WEE is dead. Everyone moved over to wab then wrd so the glory days of wee is over. Those 2 games are easier to play but at also worse in the sense that the plane and ships mechanics are so horrible compared to the ground combat. The maps are also ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ then ever.)


There is no rock paper scissor mechanic in this game. A helicopter can win over an AA unit and a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ tank can win against a modern tank. But in a 1v1 it usually ends in the superior unit wins over the smaller one.
This is a Strategy game. Use combined arms to bring down your foe. If he sends in T-80s send in a helicopter but what if he got aa? Use arty to try and take it out or use atgm to bring the T-80 or the aa down or why not both? This game has much higher skillcap then most other rts. You dont have to remember all the stats exactly. Just so you have an idea what it is capable off.

Heres some basics about the units in this game. Remember that a lot of things got nerfed, especially arty and cheaper tanks.

COMMAND VEHICLE (CV)
Command vehicles are the most important unit you got. They cost a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of money but if you can capture enough zones for enough time you will get back the money spent and if you got a higher income then the enemy you will outlast them. If all your cvs dies you lose the game. So keep them safe for flanking specs

(Recon)
Recon is your eyes. Without them you cant see ♥♥♥♥ and if you cant see ♥♥♥♥ you will lose.
ALWAYS have 1 recon heli. Recon helis have much greater view range then ground recon and they are also faster. But they are easier to spot then ground recon.
Use heli recon to spot where the enemy is and what hes doing before you make contanct in the game. You can see if hes heli rushing or spamming cheap ♥♥♥♥ at you in an attempt to just crush you under numbers moving fast on towards you on roads.
They are also really important for artillery. If you got sight on the location you want to aim you will get bonus accuracy.
Use ground recon to give your units sight on the enemy so they can target them or to have a more stealthy recon that your enemy wont notice instantly.
There are different tiers of recon but you can pretty much see which one is better by looking on optics.
Good optics = ♥♥♥♥ imo. Some buy a lot of them and put them every where but i think its a waste of money which you cant afford to waste on useless units.
Very good optics = This is what you should get most of the time.
Exceptonal = God tier. Get if you can.

(Anti Air) (AA)
AA is somewhat useless and waste of money if the enemy isn't using helicopters but if they aren't using recon helicopters they are playing this game so wrong that it's sad. Helicopter rushes are really deadly if you can't handle them. They are really common and deadly amongs new players. If you get rushed hide your units in woods and slaughter them when they fly over you.

(Infantry) (Inf)
Infantry are used to capture woods and towns. Put them in woods and you have locked it down for any enemy vehicle that values his life, even heavy tanks. It will be really hard for the enemy to get them out without flamethrowers, arty or rushing a lof of good anti infantry units into it. But you need at least 4 of them in there but the more the better. spread them out tho cause artillery will ♥♥♥♥ your day up. Arty is the only safe way to deal with them but you can counter this by pushing instead of digging yourself in like a ♥♥♥♥♥♥.
The classes of infantry.
Mainline/riflemen. They are the standard infantry unit. 10 man squad with an short range unguided anti tank rocket and a 1 HE rating on small arms.

Shock infantry. They are upgraded riflemen. More expensive but eats riflemen with their 2 HE small arms and faster movement speed.

Elite/spec. With a HE of 3 they eat every other infantry unit and can even damage light armored vehicles. They usually also got the best AT rockets but there are 2 exceptions.
Spetzans is the god amongs infantry. Instead of AT rockets they use napalm launching rockets thats like a hand held artillery. They are weak to tanks cause they dont have any AT.
Delta force is the your standard spec ops. With it's great AT rocket and 3 HE small arms it can both kill of lesser infantry units and destroy tanks.
FJB 40 is even better at multitasking then the delta but does everything worse. Its armed with a AT rocket and a manpad which gives it the ability to target helicopters beyond the range of their small arms but it's pretty ♥♥♥♥ though.

(Artillery) (Arty)
Artillery is the god in this game. It rains death from the sky killing everything without medium armor. They are pretty inaccurate though and really supply heavy.
Use them to kill aa, inf, atgm and/or supress them so you can move up. If the enemy is defending get more arty and force him to attack you or get bombarded to defeat. This only works if you can afford to buy and maintain artillery though. You need at least 4 arty for it to be effective and anything less is a waste of money and anything more might eat your supply in seconds and leave your front much weaker by having less units there.

There are 3 classes of artillery in this game.
Tube artillery are your standard artillery. They fire pretty slow but packs a deadly punch. Honestly only the am1f, malkas, msta and the danas are worth buying. The paladin got to slow rof compared to the others and the malkas are just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ nukes. 4 malkas can destroy
Mortar are for instant support to the frontline much weaker then the other 2 classes but they are much cheaper and more responsive.
MLRS are for heavy instant suppression. They can cover an entire area in explosion but they are usually pretty weak or horribly expensive and their aiming/reloading time is so high that's its not even funny. The grad is not worth the money but the buratino is the soviet mortar. It is the best arty in my oppinion. It's short range but it deletes infantry and other unarmored/light armored units like they had a negative armor stats.

(Helicopter) (Heli)
Helicopters are pretty bad unless you spam them. They die pretty easy to small arms fire so flying over a group of infantry in woods is as deadly as it can get. They can be effective if theres a window in the enemy air defence but players usually use them to rush infantry into important buildings/woods before ground forces reaches that location. Starting with 2-4 helicopters with infantry in them is very common cause it might succure you that very good possition on the map.

(Tanks) (Light, medium, heavy (Cavalry))
When it comes to tanks they are pretty weak to be honest. They either die to 1-3 missiles from an atgm/inf that cost 1/2-4 the price of the tank. But all tanks except the abram and the challenger dies to 1 top tier atgm to the side. Not only that but they also outrange the tank with 700m. Using tanks are pretty hard when everything is much cheaper and about as letal.
Infantry eats tanks in woods and towns. ATGM eats tanks in open ground. But its almost imune to artillery except for the moral drop and tanks dominates once they get in range.

Tanks are devided into 3 groups (4 with the cavalry tanks but they are pretty much light tanks)
Light = T-55, T-62, Leopard 1, Patton, AMX-30

These tanks are good for nothing but meat shield. They are somewhat good for rushes cause if you get close enough you can win even against much better tanks if you got the numbers to do so. A basic T-55 cost 20 and an M1A1 Abram cost 135. For every Abram he fields you can field 6 T-55s but it will be hard for them to get close before getting destroyed. Use arty to supress the defending units while rushing in for the kill with cheap tanks and infantry.

Medium T-72, T-64 (A-BM), Chieftan
These tanks are the usually the best thing you can get for the price. The T-64 are almost like a heavy tank but lacks armor until the B-64BV but the entire series have the worst side armor of all medium-heavy tanks which makes them much easier to one shot from the side. They also fire 10 rpm which is better then the standard nato rpm of 6-7 and they also got ATGMs giving them more range then their main gun.
The T-72 isn't as good as the T-64 but its still decent. It lacks the accuracy and rpm to be good but if you field enough of these they can deal a pretty heavy punch.The T-72B is almost a heavy tank but it lacks the armor but got more accuracy then the 2 other T-72s and it also got a high tier ATGM. Its price however is that of a low-mid tier heavy tank. Cause they got a HE of 4 if they miss it doesn't matter cause the enemy will lose moral really quick and lose accuracy and rpm.
The Chieftan is mostly just a bunker. Good powerful and accurate gun but really slow rof and speed.

Heavy T-64BV, T-80, Abram, Leopard 2, Challenger (AMX-32)
These tanks are the most powerful units in the game. With their armor and gun they can destroy everything but helicopters with ease. They are however very expensive and arent indestructable.
The T-80 is the real heavy tank of the soviet. Strong accurate gun, good armor and a bonus of having ATGMs. The T-80U is the most expensive tank in the game. Its the only tank with an ap rating of 11 which gives it a huge advantage over other heavy tanks cause it can deal more damage at long range. And it also got one of the best ATGMs in the game with its 2800 range compared to the standard 2600 nato got. Use the T-80A. Its an good average Heavy tank for good affordable price.
The abram is the newbie tank. cause it got more side armor then the standard 5 the soviet use on their T-80/T-72B they can take more from the side and it will be really hard to oneshot them from the side. Its cheap and the later version got very good accuracy.
The leopard 2 is the nato version of the T-80. 5 standard armor 9-10 front armor and 70 km/h. It got a better gun then the earlier T-80s but the T-80U is just a monster. Leopard 2A4 is the most expensive tank nato got and the gun is the second best in the game.
The challenger is a slow moving bunnker. It got the strongest side armor of all tanks and the gun is really accurate and powerful but its very slow. Its pretty good unless you want more speed. Might be better to take the leopard or abram over it cause they come in 3 different versions over the challengers 1.
The French AMX-32 got the gun of a heavy tank and the speed but lacks the armor. Its called wannabe heavy tank and its classed together with the T-72 and Chieftan MK 10.

Remember that combined arms is the key in this game. Use cheaper tanks and infantry in front of your tanks when attacking so the enemy will target them first so your tanks can get in range to do their job. Use artillery to supress the enemy while you are attackign giving you a chance to get close before those atgms can destroy your units. once you reach the forrest edge unload your riflemen and shocktroopers to clear the wood from enemy infantry and tanks and if they try to retreat to another patch of wood use your tanks to chase down the enemy. Remember to have AA close or you will lose everything to helicopters.

There are many ways to deal with different enemies games but its defenetly not rock paper scissor. Combined arms is the key and DO NOT FORGET RECON

[Roffe]

If you liked WEE I would recommend Wrd over Wab any day but those games are were bit disappointing for me. Wrd is good but the ship combat is just retarded. Planes were pretty retarded as well. They kinda balanced the planes but the ships are still retarded and will forever be retarded. The land combat is also much more forgiving. Heavy tanks don't really get one shotted anymore but now cheaper tanks/units are almost worthless. If you cried about your patton not being able to one shot T-80s from the side you might not want to try the 2 other wargames. Maybe Wrd cause its pretty decent. WAB sucks imo cause it is to forgiving and easy to play and it feels arcadish.

WEE
Land/heli
Very punishing for losing units cause of low income
Artillery are gods
ATGM are meta (atgm are evil)
Infantry in woods are monsters
Moral is high as ♥♥♥♥. Units rout for being close to a blowpipe landing 20km away.
The maps are pretty nice and not all of them are mirror maps were half the map looks like the other half.

WAB
Land/heli/plane
Very forgiving cause of huge income
Artillery is no longer for bombarding and supressing but for sniping high value targets. Counter battery is now a viabletactic cause of the huge accuracy incresse of all artillery units. Artillery dont deal as much damage now tho.
Infantry are weak as ♥♥♥♥ but grows roots down to the earths core like a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ tree if they are put inside buildings. Only way to move them is by ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dropping napalm on them
Tanks are nerfed/buffed hard. Low tier tanks sucks and high tier rules. Heavy tanks dont requires skills anymore.
Fire/napalm now hurts. (Napalm got nerfed cause it even killed tanks who couldnt move out of the fire cause they were perma stunned)
Planes vs AA has changed a lot. From AA being worthless to planes being worthless and back. Now its somewhat balanced but AA still got the upperhand.
ATGMs are almost worthless cause of the heavy tank meta.
Moral is no longer a problem except it will lower your units accuracy when they get worried-panic. Units rarly routs and the first 50 hours i had with that game i had no idea if they removed rout compleatly.
The maps are mirrors. Both sides starting location looks almost excactly the same meaning you will move in the same way as your enemies.

WRD
Land/heli/plane/ship
Its the glorious middle ground of forgivness. Not to much not to little (a bit to much but not that much)
Artillery is also in the middle ground. The accuracy isnt as pinpoint as WAB or as inaccurate as WEE. The damage is good. Not to much not to little. We also got MLRS firing AT cluster rockets.
Infantry is a lot more viable and doesn't grow as thick and deep roots.
ATGMs are a bit better now.
Heavy tanks still easy to use and very powerful but mid tier tanks got a chance to shine. Low tier still horrible.
Planes vs aa is pretty good at the moment.
Ships are just a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of nobody knowing who is winning or how to win, some may but most dont. Most players don't go sea and just focus on land while trying to defend the coast. Much easier to do then going into that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Usually its the soviet winning cause of their super cruise missiles. I havent had much experience with ships cause im not gonna go into that random ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. It isnt even needed to buy those huge expensive ships that will never give back their price unless you win the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of missiles flying between you and the enemy. Most missiles will get shutdown and it will end with the ships firing their inaccurate as ♥♥♥♥ main guns at each other. They need an accuracy buff ffs. The Opfor (pact) will usually win over nato cause their main guns are ''better'' then Blufor (nato)
Moral is the same as WAB.
Maps are a bit better but still not as good as they were in wee.

I would recommend Wargame Red Dragon.

I might missed somethings and again I jumped up and down so there can be some sentences that might not make sense.

[xSubo]

this game is the only of the series that infantry get grenades or flashbangs, air land battle has different air mechanics/infantry mechanics completely. red dragon shines in the vast amount of units and landscape improvements that allow units to be more versatile, and not necessarily its naval aspect (debatable.. i love it for a different infantry front to deply from soley). wish they patched red dragon to take advantages of wee and walb; for me personally its all about the terrain and using it for adavantage and red dragon does this the best (not to mention anything greater or equal to hmg's on a vehicle if positioned proper will always beat infantry (minus atgm's of course)

[[1stA]Zap Rowsdower]

Thanks for the responses , they were helpful. Definately going to pick up red dragon soon.

[[1stA]Zap Rowsdower]

Can anyone help in regards to the 1914 scenario? So you start further away from the defensive positions then the Russians do (wtf) and the objective is to accumilate 2000 points. There's lots of sectors but you can't just park command units in them to get points because a russian helicopter will always get it. I could perhaps spend the points on more units, but then that defeats the objective of the scenario, and it never seems to be enough to hold the Russians back for more then a minute or two. Is there a way to pause the game to issue orders? That would make it much more managable.

[Mudpai]

"There is no rock paper scissor mechanic in this game."

"This is a Strategy game. Use combined arms to bring down your foe. If he sends in T-80s send in a helicopter but what if he got aa? Use arty to try and take it out or use atgm to bring the T-80 or the aa down or why not both?

I'm sorry but what you just descibed is a rock paper scissor mechanic

[Pelaf]

Originally posted by spartanWOT:

"There is no rock paper scissor mechanic in this game."

"This is a Strategy game. Use combined arms to bring down your foe. If he sends in T-80s send in a helicopter but what if he got aa? Use arty to try and take it out or use atgm to bring the T-80 or the aa down or why not both?

I'm sorry but what you just descibed is a rock paper scissor mechanic

Except that it's still a game of skill, a chopper can outgun an AA unit if the commander is competent enough and the terrain permits. T80s can be destroyed by a T34 if the correct tactics are employed, (I have even beaten a squad of two T80s and three T55s with a group of APCs armed with .50s and a single squad of french infantry.) Anything can be beaten in this game, it isn't a case of 'A' unit has more damage because 'B' unit is hard countered by it, everything is countered by everything else. . . Depending on your strategy and tactics.

[Mudpai]

I understand what you said, Was simply pointing out that you almost sounded hypocritical.