The truth about the Harvest Moon name controversy isn't what you think

[alfaerin]

Even though it's been four years since this happened, I still see a lot of hate being spewed at Natsume--that they "stole" the Harvest Moon name, they're "lying" to people, and Story of Seasons is the "real" Harvest Moon. But a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, as they say, and there's a lot of facts these people don't know. For anyone reading the topic who doesn't know the story, Harvest Moon games were originally made in Japan and published under the name "Bokujou Monogatari." Then Natsume would translate the games into English and release them as Harvest Moon. But after A New Beginning, Marvelous yanked the series from Natsume and began having XSeed, their western publisher, localize the games as Story of Seasons. Then Natsume began internally developing their own Harvest Moon games, consisting of The Lost Valley, Skytree Village, Seeds of Memories, and Light of Hope. So without further ado, here's some facts you may not be aware:

1. Marvelous did not create the Bokujou Monogatari franchise.
Bokujou Monogatari was originally owned by Pack-In Video, which later merged with Victor Entertainment. Marvelous later bought out Victor Entertainment and acquired the rights through that purchase.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pack-In-Video
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvelous_Entertainment#Marvelous_Interactive_Inc.

2. Animal Parade is the last real Harvest Moon game.
Many fans commonly cite Animal Parade as one of the best games in the series and a good entry point for newcomers. That's because it was the last game made by the real creator of the series, who left Marvelous after that.

http://harvestmoon.wikia.com/wiki/Yasuhiro_Wada

3. The Marvelous games, including Story of Seasons, were not made by the original development team.
Even after Yasuhiro Wada and most of the pre-Marvelous development team left, Marvelous just hired a new development team and continued making games under the Bokujou Monogatari banner. Compare the credits of an older game in the series like Harvest Moon 64 to Story of Seasons, and you won't find a single name in common. Even when you compare the credits of Animal Parade to the credits of Story of Seasons, you'll barely find any names in common and the two most notable ones (Yoshifumi Hashimoto and Igusa Matsuyama) are only listed under Special Thanks.

http://fogu.com/hm/animal_parade/game_credits.php
http://fogu.com/sos2/game-credits.html

4. If you think Natsume "lied," then Marvelous has lied to you for years.
The Story of Seasons games are made by completely different people compared to beloved classics like Harvest Moon 64. So if you're going to hate on anyone, it should be Marvelous. They changed development teams years before Natsume began developing Harvest Moon titles.

5. Marvelous is to blame for the name change, not Natsume.
Many people think Natsume refused to license the trademark out of spite, but Marvelous actually declined to license it. When Marvelous notified Natsume that they would not be licensing Bokujou Monogatari anymore, they had already made the decision to release the series under a new name.

Hiro Maekawa, President of Natsume: Roughly three years ago, Marvelous notified us that they were not going to license their Bokujo Monogatari series to Natsume anymore, and that they were going to release the series by themselves under a different brand name. Needless to say, we were surprised by this decision. One of the things I am proud of at Natsume is that we have loyal and longstanding relationships based on mutual trust and integrity with our partners, and we never like to see a successful partnership end, especially one that includes a product so near and dear to my own heart.

http://www.siliconera.com/2015/03/18/harvest-moon-beyond-whats-next-natsume/

6. What Marvelous did is considered a jerk move by Japanese standards.
From an American perspective, having XSeed localize the games is completely logical. From a Japanese standpoint, you don't turn your back on a loyal partner.

"The Japanese, for example, define business ethics in terms of loyalty to their companies, their business networks, and their nation."

https://hbr.org/1996/09/values-in-tension-ethics-away-from-home

7. If the president of Natsume hadn't gambled on the original Harvest Moon, we probably wouldn't be getting the games.
People thought he was nuts trying to bring the series over, but Hiro Maekawa was positive there was a market for the game and he was right. The series would have likely remained in Japan for decades or even forever if not for him. Maybe you could show a little gratitude by not being a colossal jerk to the company that brought you years of fantastic memories?

8. Natsume spent over 15 years building the Harvest Moon fanbase in the west.
If you're not familiar with business, you may not understand what a huge deal it is that Natsume spent fifteen years building a market in the west for Harvest Moon. Then Marvelous, the new kid on the block, yanked the series from them and flushed Natsume's years of hard work down the drain. Legit move? Of course, they had the right to do that. But surely you can muster some sympathy for Natsume in this situation.

9. Now do you understand why Natsume began developing their own games?
Marvelous handed them lemons and Natsume made lemonade. Thanks to that, we now have two farming series to play instead of just one, and both are getting better with every new game. Frankly, that's totally awesome for fans. It's fine to prefer one series over the other, but please stop the misguided cries of "dis isn't REEL Harvest Moon," "Natsume stole the name," etc. It's completely pointless to argue that one is "real" and the other isn't when there AREN'T any real Harvest Moon games anymore. All we have left are two different companies making games, one under the name "Story of Seasons" and the other under "Harvest Moon."

10. PS: Natsume's Harvest Moon games are in fact developed in Japan.
For those people who turn their noses up at western-developed games, Natsume's internally developed games are made in Japan and localized for western release.

[MissUndutchable]

Anfia >///< původně napsal:

Since Doraemon Story Of Season is Confirmed on PC, including on Steam and will be coming very soon after Nintendo Switch version release.

Let's bump this again for a truth :)

Will this go for EU too? This may just get me hyped! ^^

[Anfia /s]

G33ky m0m původně napsal:

Anfia >///< původně napsal:

Since Doraemon Story Of Season is Confirmed on PC, including on Steam and will be coming very soon after Nintendo Switch version release.

Let's bump this again for a truth :)

Will this go for EU too? This may just get me hyped! ^^

Sorry for long time-awaited reply.

Previously it was announced for Asia region first (and maybe also US, cmiiw). But now, it's released worldwide :)

https://store.steampowered.com/app/965230/DORAEMON__STORY_OF_SEASONS

I may not playing this game and it's core (SoS) series and also their SoS spin-off's, since I'm not finish this harvest moon LoH and all their previous installment yet. Not to mention Stardew Valley is still not finish yet too xD

Playing farming-genre's game is taking more longer than other genre, so.. don't expect me too much xD

[MissUndutchable]

Anfia původně napsal:

G33ky m0m původně napsal:

Will this go for EU too? This may just get me hyped! ^^

Sorry for long time-awaited reply.

Previously it was announced for Asia region first (and maybe also US, cmiiw). But now, it's released worldwide :)

https://store.steampowered.com/app/965230/DORAEMON__STORY_OF_SEASONS

I may not playing this game and it's core (SoS) series and also their SoS spin-off's, since I'm not finish this harvest moon LoH and all their previous installment yet. Not to mention Stardew Valley is still not finish yet too xD

Playing farming-genre's game is taking more longer than other genre, so.. don't expect me too much xD

AAAAAHHHH The Hype is real! I will have to save up for it xD
Thanks for sharing!I have added the game to my wishlist! <3

[The Mighty Raykachu]

I don't really care about the drama or who makes the game if it's good. But I kind of don't like localization because I want to experience games authentically as the creator wanted, without censorship or weird "cultural" changes. I don't want to see jelly donuts and invisible guns. The question is, is the game as good without the Marvelous developers? Are people rating the game as bad because it is bad, or just because of their loyalty to Marvelous/ hatred of Natsume?

[TCJaime]

Thank you for this information. Now we know, and knowledge is half the battle!!

But, now that we know, can we please stop flogging this poor dead horse?! There was a split. And the split was mostly drama-less . Both companies produced their "perfect" version of the game. The games were different, but both were good. Then they both released another version, and then more, and more, and more. I like farming sims, so this is good for me and anyone who wants more farm sims.

There is no new information, and if you need more history please google it.

[FC360]

Yeah however there is 1 major difference between the 2 games, 1 is released on multiple platforms, Harvest moon, while the other is published by Nintendo so will be Nintendo exclusive games, Story of seasons. Now this might change sometime and doesn't really matter than much since most story of seasons have been Nintendo exclusives anyway, 6 out of 28 main series games have been on none Nintendo.

I haven't been a fan of the story of seasons or harvest moon games since Harvest moon DS Because after that the game changed too much for my liking. I really loved Back to nature so am super excited for the remake on Switch which hopefully comes to EU very soon, however I did enjoy the demo of Doraemon Story of Seasons so might go out and buy that :)

I don't really mind both game series existing however what I don't like is the misinformation spread about the game series called Harvest moon in it's current form. Saying the game is celebrating 20 years to me implies this dev has been making Harvest moon for 20 years when they kinda haven't as they just published the games outside of Japan but whatever I'm not going to hold it against them too much.

[funewchie]

FC360 původně napsal:

I haven't been a fan of the story of seasons or harvest moon games since Harvest moon DS Because after that the game changed too much for my liking. I really loved Back to nature so am super excited for the remake on Switch which hopefully comes to EU very soon, however I did enjoy the demo of Doraemon Story of Seasons so might go out and buy that :)

I don't really mind both game series existing however what I don't like is the misinformation spread about the game series called Harvest moon in it's current form. Saying the game is celebrating 20 years to me implies this dev has been making Harvest moon for 20 years when they kinda haven't as they just published the games outside of Japan but whatever I'm not going to hold it against them too much.

Yeah, that last part is what bothered me the most.
I don't mind Natsume making their own farming sim game, far from it.
I understand that they own the rights to the Harvest Moon brand name, so yeah, they should use it.

But I do have a slight issue with them claiming this is the 20th anniversary... of a series that debuted in 2014.
These two series really need to be detatched from each other.
Harvest Moon and Bokujou Monogatari (Story of Seasons) are not the same series.

I'm glad Natsume is making their own series, and I'll admit, I've been mildly curious to look into it. But it has to be acknowledged that this is not the same series as the one with the same name until 2014.
-----

But I'll be fair, and acknowledge that I've been unfairly projecting a little on Natsume.
Allow me to tell you all a story of a situation that reminds me of this, a situation with Sonic the Hedgehog:

Back in the 90's, Sega licensed Archie Comics to make a comic book for Sonic. They did a really good job with it, and it was a hit for many, many years.
One of their writers was a fellow named Ken Penders. His writing was a bit hit or miss at times, but he did write some good stories, especially for Knuckles the Echidna.

He eventually became the editor. He did have to make adjustments here and there due to the games' setting/story becoming more defined, but they all made it work.
However, the comic's quality eventually started going downhill, and Archie made the decision to fire him.

Now, ordinarily in these situations, writers have contracts that make it clear that the characters and storylines they create become the property of the licensor (in this case, Sega).
However, Penders discovered that he had never signed such a contract in all his years working at Archie.
So, he discreetly went and registered copyrights on all of the characters he'd created over the years (including versions of Sonic and Dr. Eggman from parallel universes he'd made. (Don't ask me how he managed it with those two))

So, once he was fired, he immediately turned around and sued Archie for using "his" characters and storylines without his permission.

While this was going on, Sega had released Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood on the Nintendo DS.
Taking cues from other Sonic stories and subseries, they included a secretive race of high-tech echidnas, and a strong-willing echidna girl.
As it so happens, during his run as writer, Penders had made a race of high-tech echidnas and a strong-willed echidna girl.

Despite Sega's version having completely different names, looks, and backstory, and the girl acting and looking nothing like Penders' version, he also filed a lawsuit against both Sega and EA/Bioware.

The courts disallowed the Sega/EA suit until his pending suit against Archie was finished (which took too long, and ended with Archie settling out of court).
However, Sega, now apocalyptically furious, ordered Archie to remove everything Penders had made.
They later learned that most of the writers also lacked the contract, and so ordered the entire comic rebooted, and Archie fired their entire legal department.
After this, shortly thereafter, Sega terminated their license with Archie. (They now use IDW Comics)

This is sadly, one reason why Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood has never been remade or ported. As it leaves a possible lawsuit open.
------

After this, Penders openly revealed he was going to release a comic based on his work with Knuckles.
While he acted as though this would be a brand-new original series... it doesn't help when he states "this will be picking up from where we left off in Sonic" citing the exact issue.
And actively used the same names as those characters.

Thankfully, Sega caught on and issued a C&D order to Penders, shutting down his future comic before it could launch.
-------

Whew...

So, for a while, I was worried that Natsume was doing the same thing with Marvelous' Bokujou Monogatari series - riding their coat tails while pretending it's their own original series. And leaving it open for them to sue Marvelous for violating their IP.

After all this time, I'm no longer worried about that. It looks like Natsume is doing their own thing, and making sure they keep it professional and civil.

If Natsume keeps this new Harvest Moon series of theirs as it's own brand-new thing, then I'm perfectly fine with it. (And may even consider getting into it someday)

...But I'll admit, them calling it the 20th anniversary... yeah, considering the above, you can see why my eyebrows had gone up.
I'm still not too worried, as long as no lawsuits result.

[Jelraclix]

This is old, but here is a bit more information that people really do not get.

Marvelous bought the company that had the creators of the series. Marvelous themselves was not the original in anyway.

Now to further this and why Natsume was able to win a lawsuit, they were not just the publisher. Most of the original assets are owned by Natsume. Natsume has been a part of this project from the beginning and Marvelous was not.

The thing is here though, this was more like a bad divorce with an odd custody battle. The battle instead of being for kids, was for the kids clothes. The kids had already left.

Quite frankly I am fine with the two separate paths now, but saying Harvest Moon is now Story of Seasons is just not true. Story of Seasons is not really the original either. Story of Seasons tends to play more like the earlier titles. Harvest Moon tends to focus on the things that got added later into the games.

Also it should be stated that if you want older titles launched, Natsume has most of those rights. There are exceptions. One such is Harvest Moon: Back to Nature. Sony actually owns the rights to that title.

[funewchie]

PSN_SilentNova původně napsal:

Also it should be stated that if you want older titles launched, Natsume has most of those rights. There are exceptions. One such is Harvest Moon: Back to Nature. Sony actually owns the rights to that title.

Um...you do know Marvelous has released Story of Seasons: Friends of Mineral Town (an enhanced remake of Harvest Moon: Friends of Mineral Town) on the Switch, right?

Marvelous wouldn't do that if they lacked the rights.

[FC360]

PSN_SilentNova původně napsal:

This is old, but here is a bit more information that people really do not get.

Marvelous bought the company that had the creators of the series. Marvelous themselves was not the original in anyway.

Now to further this and why Natsume was able to win a lawsuit, they were not just the publisher. Most of the original assets are owned by Natsume. Natsume has been a part of this project from the beginning and Marvelous was not.

The thing is here though, this was more like a bad divorce with an odd custody battle. The battle instead of being for kids, was for the kids clothes. The kids had already left.

Quite frankly I am fine with the two separate paths now, but saying Harvest Moon is now Story of Seasons is just not true. Story of Seasons is not really the original either. Story of Seasons tends to play more like the earlier titles. Harvest Moon tends to focus on the things that got added later into the games.

Also it should be stated that if you want older titles launched, Natsume has most of those rights. There are exceptions. One such is Harvest Moon: Back to Nature. Sony actually owns the rights to that title.

I can't find any information about Amccus who were the developers that made the first ever harvest moon game on the SNES however the second ever game was made by Victor interactive software and the game was published by themselves in Japan, Natsume in NA and Nintendo in EU which is a somewhat common occurance as I believe a bunch of story of seasons games were published by Nintendo and were Nintendo exclusives. I've never heard anything about Natsume owning any assets for harvest moon only ever the rights to the name Harvest moon outside of Japan so am very curious as to where you heard information as I'd like to read that.

Also back to nature seems to be owned by Natsume but the remakes on the GBA seem to be owned by Marvelous interactive which is how they are probably getting around Natsume, Marvelous, Natsume and Nintendo published the original GBA versions.

[Anfia /s]

Since Story of Season Friends of Mineral Town is finally come to Steam

https://store.steampowered.com/app/978780/STORY_OF_SEASONS_Friends_of_Mineral_Town/

let's bump this thread again ;)

[funewchie]

Anfia původně napsal:

Since Story of Season Friends of Mineral Town is finally come to Steam, let's bump this thread again ;)

Wait, it what?!

I had no idea that was coming to Steam.
Thanks for the info!!

[FC360]

The fact it's coming out on steam is both surprising and kinda annoying. I don't really understand why it's suddenly coming to steam, there was absolutely no mention of it coming to PC at all until 5 days ago. I'm not annoyed that it's coming to steam I'm more annoyed by the fact they were obviously working on it for steam but didn't tell anyone until like a month before it's release date outside Japan. I'm now on the fence on whether to cancel my pre order of the game on the switch and get it on PC, the PC has 4K which I won't use as I don't have 4K, I'd lose portability which is a huge disadvantage, PC controls with a game like this is going to be really weird especially since it was originally made for a portable gaming system.

I guess I'll keep my switch pre order, makes way more sense than getting it on steam, especially when you consider the fact I'm rarely on steam now a days lol.

[Watershine]

I came across this post just recently and want to add my 50 Cents. While most of the information quoted here is true, it is lacking quiet a few important points.

alfaerin původně napsal:

1. Marvelous did not create the Bokujou Monogatari franchise.
Bokujou Monogatari was originally owned by Pack-In Video, which later merged with Victor Entertainment. Marvelous later bought out Victor Entertainment and acquired the rights through that purchase.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pack-In-Video
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvelous_Entertainment#Marvelous_Interactive_Inc.

Most people, especially the long-term Fans of the Bokujou Series, are well aware of that.

alfaerin původně napsal:

2. Animal Parade is the last real Harvest Moon game.
Many fans commonly cite Animal Parade as one of the best games in the series and a good entry point for newcomers. That's because it was the last game made by the real creator of the series, who left Marvelous after that.

http://harvestmoon.wikia.com/wiki/Yasuhiro_Wada

First statement i consider wrong. While it is true that Yasuhiro moved on, that doesn't mean the current Bokujou Games are not the Original anymore. Just like with Movies who change Directors, just like with Books changing Authors, just like with Serieses changing Studios, just because the original Creator moves on / dies doesn't mean that a Series is not Original anymore.

Just look at the Final Fantasy Series. It was created by Hironobu Sakaguchi, he served as the Producer for the Series until Final Fantasy 9, then changed to Executive Producer and then left Square Enix in 2003. But Final Fantasy is still being made. Throughout its history it had several different Directors. But while the Final Fantasy Series certainly has changed, no one would doubt that it is still the Original Series and no one would call it a lie, fake or not the original anymore just because Sakaguchi isn't making them anymore ever since Final Fantasy 9 in the year 2000.

alfaerin původně napsal:

3. The Marvelous games, including Story of Seasons, were not made by the original development team.

Even after Yasuhiro Wada and most of the pre-Marvelous development team left, Marvelous just hired a new development team and continued making games under the Bokujou Monogatari banner. Compare the credits of an older game in the series like Harvest Moon 64 to Story of Seasons, and you won't find a single name in common.

4. If you think Natsume "lied," then Marvelous has lied to you for years.

The Story of Seasons games are made by completely different people compared to beloved classics like Harvest Moon 64. So if you're going to hate on anyone, it should be Marvelous. They changed development teams years before Natsume began developing Harvest Moon titles.

Um... this is completely normal in the Gaming Industry. Just like with normal Jobs, people are getting fired, quit by themselves, Studios are getting closed down, some people are maybe integrated into already existing Teams while others have to look for new jobs, some Employees are changed around within the Company to start working for a different Development Team, some want a change and ask to be moved to a different Team instead. And yeah, there's also people who retire because of old age or health issues. So just because the names on the Credits are not the same anymore is not proof it's not the Original anymore.

alfaerin původně napsal:

5. Marvelous is to blame for the name change, not Natsume.

Most people are not blaming Natsume for the name change. At least i've never come across anyone claiming that Natsume stole the HM name or refused to hand the HM name over to Marvelous. People are angry at Natsume for not putting effort into their own HM Games.

alfaerin původně napsal:

6. What Marvelous did is considered a jerk move by Japanese standards.

Well, we don't know the whole Story. Natsume says the change was announced to them out of the blue while Marvelous hasn't said anything about that. We Players often don't hear much about what is going on behind the scenes. Maybe their standings weren't as good anymore as Natsume claims. So i won't judge Marvelous on that without knowing their part of the Story.

alfaerin původně napsal:

7. If the president of Natsume hadn't gambled on the original Harvest Moon, we probably wouldn't be getting the games.

Again, most people don't dislike Natsume as a whole. But people are highly disappointed with the low Quality of their Harvest Moon Games.

alfaerin původně napsal:

8. Natsume spent over 15 years building the Harvest Moon fanbase in the west.
If you're not familiar with business, you may not understand what a huge deal it is that Natsume spent fifteen years building a market in the west for Harvest Moon. Then Marvelous, the new kid on the block, yanked the series from them and flushed Natsume's years of hard work down the drain. Legit move? Of course, they had the right to do that. But surely you can muster some sympathy for Natsume in this situation.

Again, without knowing Marvelous side of the Story it is impossible to make a fair judgement here.

alfaerin původně napsal:

9. Now do you understand why Natsume began developing their own games?
Marvelous handed them lemons and Natsume made lemonade. Thanks to that, we now have two farming series to play instead of just one, and both are getting better with every new game. Frankly, that's totally awesome for fans. It's fine to prefer one series over the other, but please stop the misguided cries of "dis isn't REEL Harvest Moon," "Natsume stole the name," etc. It's completely pointless to argue that one is "real" and the other isn't when there AREN'T any real Harvest Moon games anymore. All we have left are two different companies making games, one under the name "Story of Seasons" and the other under "Harvest Moon."

I don't mind Natsume making their own HM Games. But i do mind that the Quality of their Games is low. Especially with what you said before, that Natsume build the Harvest Moon Name for almost 20 years: They got so much experience, know first-hand what players like and looking for in these Games so i totally don't understand how their Games are of such low Quality and it's so obvious that they put way less effort (and probably money) into their HM then Marvelous does into their Bokujou Monogatari series. And that is what makes Fans angry and disappointed and that's why they say not to support Natsumes Harvest Moon Game. Because there are many people out there who think that the current Harvest Moon is still made by the Original Developers of the Bokujou Monogatari Series and they're angry at them (Marvelous) why the Quality dropped so much while they're calling Story of Seasons a Rip-Off off the Original (Bokujou Monogatari). So yeah, if you take a well-known beloved name that you've build up for almost 20 years you should at least make effort to deliver a quality product you can be truly proud of and that is so well made that you can stand proud next to the Original.

alfaerin původně napsal:

10. PS: Natsume's Harvest Moon games are in fact developed in Japan.
For those people who turn their noses up at western-developed games, Natsume's internally developed games are made in Japan and localized for western release.

While that is true it's also true that even though the Games are developed by a Studio based in JP the Games are only released in the West. I always tell people that this is just another proof that Natsumes Harvest Moon is a whole new Series that started in 2014 while Story of Seasons is the Original that goes all the way back to 1996 where it first released in Japan.

We don't need Low-Effort Farm-Life-Sims anymore to satisfy our craving for the Genre
I'm a super big Fan of the Farm-Life-Sim Genre. Until 2016 we only had Bokujou Monogatari, if you craved for a Farm-Life-Sim this was your only Go-To. Then Natsume entered the ring and at first this might've looked like a happy occasion because we now had 2 Farm-Life-Sims for the first time ever. Sadly Natsumes idea of Harvest Moon turned out to be a joke.

https://www.metacritic.com/game/3ds/harvest-moon-3d-the-lost-valley

But just 2 years later, while Natsume released their 2nd not even average Farm-Life-Sim, Stardew Valley hits the ground and turns the Farm-Life-Sim Genre upside down. Now we had 3 Farm-Life-Sims to choose one, two which are actually good and a 3rd that is only decent.

But not only that... Stardew Valley sparked a hype never seen before. And now, just 5 years later, we got over 100 Games that are either full fledged Farm-Life-Sims, Farm-Life-Sims with a twist (like Rune Factory) and Games with very similar Elements (like Kynseed).

A Farm-Life-Simulator List by Watershine[docs.google.com]

I sadly have to say: We basically don't need a low-effort Harvest Moon made by Natsume. If they up their Game, literally, and actually put effort into it and make a high quality Farm-Life-Sim all the Fans out there will be more then happy to buy the Game and support Natsume. But the times where we only had 1 or 2 Farm-Life-Sims and had to choose them if we wanted to play that type of Game are over.

[MissUndutchable]

Watershine původně napsal:

I came across this post just recently and want to add my 50 Cents. While most of the information quoted here is true, it is lacking quiet a few important points.

alfaerin původně napsal:

1. Marvelous did not create the Bokujou Monogatari franchise.
Bokujou Monogatari was originally owned by Pack-In Video, which later merged with Victor Entertainment. Marvelous later bought out Victor Entertainment and acquired the rights through that purchase.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pack-In-Video
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvelous_Entertainment#Marvelous_Interactive_Inc.

Most people, especially the long-term Fans of the Bokujou Series, are well aware of that.

alfaerin původně napsal:

2. Animal Parade is the last real Harvest Moon game.
Many fans commonly cite Animal Parade as one of the best games in the series and a good entry point for newcomers. That's because it was the last game made by the real creator of the series, who left Marvelous after that.

http://harvestmoon.wikia.com/wiki/Yasuhiro_Wada

First statement i consider wrong. While it is true that Yasuhiro moved on, that doesn't mean the current Bokujou Games are not the Original anymore. Just like with Movies who change Directors, just like with Books changing Authors, just like with Serieses changing Studios, just because the original Creator moves on / dies doesn't mean that a Series is not Original anymore.

Just look at the Final Fantasy Series. It was created by Hironobu Sakaguchi, he served as the Producer for the Series until Final Fantasy 9, then changed to Executive Producer and then left Square Enix in 2003. But Final Fantasy is still being made. Throughout its history it had several different Directors. But while the Final Fantasy Series certainly has changed, no one would doubt that it is still the Original Series and no one would call it a lie, fake or not the original anymore just because Sakaguchi isn't making them anymore ever since Final Fantasy 9 in the year 2000.

alfaerin původně napsal:

3. The Marvelous games, including Story of Seasons, were not made by the original development team.

Even after Yasuhiro Wada and most of the pre-Marvelous development team left, Marvelous just hired a new development team and continued making games under the Bokujou Monogatari banner. Compare the credits of an older game in the series like Harvest Moon 64 to Story of Seasons, and you won't find a single name in common.

4. If you think Natsume "lied," then Marvelous has lied to you for years.

The Story of Seasons games are made by completely different people compared to beloved classics like Harvest Moon 64. So if you're going to hate on anyone, it should be Marvelous. They changed development teams years before Natsume began developing Harvest Moon titles.

Um... this is completely normal in the Gaming Industry. Just like with normal Jobs, people are getting fired, quit by themselves, Studios are getting closed down, some people are maybe integrated into already existing Teams while others have to look for new jobs, some Employees are changed around within the Company to start working for a different Development Team, some want a change and ask to be moved to a different Team instead. And yeah, there's also people who retire because of old age or health issues. So just because the names on the Credits are not the same anymore is not proof it's not the Original anymore.

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5. Marvelous is to blame for the name change, not Natsume.

Most people are not blaming Natsume for the name change. At least i've never come across anyone claiming that Natsume stole the HM name or refused to hand the HM name over to Marvelous. People are angry at Natsume for not putting effort into their own HM Games.

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6. What Marvelous did is considered a jerk move by Japanese standards.

Well, we don't know the whole Story. Natsume says the change was announced to them out of the blue while Marvelous hasn't said anything about that. We Players often don't hear much about what is going on behind the scenes. Maybe their standings weren't as good anymore as Natsume claims. So i won't judge Marvelous on that without knowing their part of the Story.

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7. If the president of Natsume hadn't gambled on the original Harvest Moon, we probably wouldn't be getting the games.

Again, most people don't dislike Natsume as a whole. But people are highly disappointed with the low Quality of their Harvest Moon Games.

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8. Natsume spent over 15 years building the Harvest Moon fanbase in the west.
If you're not familiar with business, you may not understand what a huge deal it is that Natsume spent fifteen years building a market in the west for Harvest Moon. Then Marvelous, the new kid on the block, yanked the series from them and flushed Natsume's years of hard work down the drain. Legit move? Of course, they had the right to do that. But surely you can muster some sympathy for Natsume in this situation.

Again, without knowing Marvelous side of the Story it is impossible to make a fair judgement here.

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9. Now do you understand why Natsume began developing their own games?
Marvelous handed them lemons and Natsume made lemonade. Thanks to that, we now have two farming series to play instead of just one, and both are getting better with every new game. Frankly, that's totally awesome for fans. It's fine to prefer one series over the other, but please stop the misguided cries of "dis isn't REEL Harvest Moon," "Natsume stole the name," etc. It's completely pointless to argue that one is "real" and the other isn't when there AREN'T any real Harvest Moon games anymore. All we have left are two different companies making games, one under the name "Story of Seasons" and the other under "Harvest Moon."

I don't mind Natsume making their own HM Games. But i do mind that the Quality of their Games is low. Especially with what you said before, that Natsume build the Harvest Moon Name for almost 20 years: They got so much experience, know first-hand what players like and looking for in these Games so i totally don't understand how their Games are of such low Quality and it's so obvious that they put way less effort (and probably money) into their HM then Marvelous does into their Bokujou Monogatari series. And that is what makes Fans angry and disappointed and that's why they say not to support Natsumes Harvest Moon Game. Because there are many people out there who think that the current Harvest Moon is still made by the Original Developers of the Bokujou Monogatari Series and they're angry at them (Marvelous) why the Quality dropped so much while they're calling Story of Seasons a Rip-Off off the Original (Bokujou Monogatari). So yeah, if you take a well-known beloved name that you've build up for almost 20 years you should at least make effort to deliver a quality product you can be truly proud of and that is so well made that you can stand proud next to the Original.

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10. PS: Natsume's Harvest Moon games are in fact developed in Japan.
For those people who turn their noses up at western-developed games, Natsume's internally developed games are made in Japan and localized for western release.

While that is true it's also true that even though the Games are developed by a Studio based in JP the Games are only released in the West. I always tell people that this is just another proof that Natsumes Harvest Moon is a whole new Series that started in 2014 while Story of Seasons is the Original that goes all the way back to 1996 where it first released in Japan.

We don't need Low-Effort Farm-Life-Sims anymore to satisfy our craving for the Genre
I'm a super big Fan of the Farm-Life-Sim Genre. Until 2016 we only had Bokujou Monogatari, if you craved for a Farm-Life-Sim this was your only Go-To. Then Natsume entered the ring and at first this might've looked like a happy occasion because we now had 2 Farm-Life-Sims for the first time ever. Sadly Natsumes idea of Harvest Moon turned out to be a joke.

https://www.metacritic.com/game/3ds/harvest-moon-3d-the-lost-valley

But just 2 years later, while Natsume released their 2nd not even average Farm-Life-Sim, Stardew Valley hits the ground and turns the Farm-Life-Sim Genre upside down. Now we had 3 Farm-Life-Sims to choose one, two which are actually good and a 3rd that is only decent.

But not only that... Stardew Valley sparked a hype never seen before. And now, just 5 years later, we got over 100 Games that are either full fledged Farm-Life-Sims, Farm-Life-Sims with a twist (like Rune Factory) and Games with very similar Elements (like Kynseed).

A Farm-Life-Simulator List by Watershine[docs.google.com]

I sadly have to say: We basically don't need a low-effort Harvest Moon made by Natsume. If they up their Game, literally, and actually put effort into it and make a high quality Farm-Life-Sim all the Fans out there will be more then happy to buy the Game and support Natsume. But the times where we only had 1 or 2 Farm-Life-Sims and had to choose them if we wanted to play that type of Game are over.

I agree with your comment. Ultimately, I don't care which company did what to whom. I don't care who uses what name and who has the rights to use the original HM name.
All I kno is that I tried one HM after the split (The Lost Valley) and that was when I walked. Story of Seasons gives me more of that HM vibe than TLV will ever do.