Feedback on gameplay: Incentives, permanent progression, fire toggle

[gatesda]

I'd remove the drops from bushes and raise the drop rate from enemies to compensate. If bushes drop items then the game is effectively punishing you by withholding loot if you don't take the time to destroy them all...and it often takes more time than defeating the enemies, especially with a slower gun or certain artifacts. There's no challenge to this, and no interesting decisions to make.

Similarly, I'd have boss-spawned enemies only drop hearts. If they drop coins, there's an incentive to farm them. Hearts, though, add some back-and-forth to the boss fight itself, so there's a solid gameplay reason to keep them.


At some point it would add a lot to have a permanent progression system. (If there isn't already one that I've missed.) This would provide meaningful goals and progress in the player's many failed runs. When I first saw the artifact trader, I assumed that the reward for strugling through the negative items would be unlocking positive ones. That sounded like an interesting system — unlock an item and it'll start spawning in future runs.


I'd also like the option to have the fire button toggle shooting. It'd be a lot more comfortable than holding the trigger for most of the game.

[Applava]

Originally posted by gatesda:

I'd remove the drops from bushes and raise the drop rate from enemies to compensate. If bushes drop items then the game is effectively punishing you by withholding loot if you don't take the time to destroy them all...and it often takes more time than defeating the enemies, especially with a slower gun or certain artifacts. There's no challenge to this, and no interesting decisions to make.

Similarly, I'd have boss-spawned enemies only drop hearts. If they drop coins, there's an incentive to farm them. Hearts, though, add some back-and-forth to the boss fight itself, so there's a solid gameplay reason to keep them.

We will have into consideration your feedback to improve game balance in future updates.

Originally posted by gatesda:

At some point it would add a lot to have a permanent progression system. (If there isn't already one that I've missed.) This would provide meaningful goals and progress in the player's many failed runs. When I first saw the artifact trader, I assumed that the reward for strugling through the negative items would be unlocking positive ones. That sounded like an interesting system — unlock an item and it'll start spawning in future runs.

For now the only permanent progression system aspect is that you unlock tournament areas by reaching them in story mode.
If it can be considered as permanent progression system, another aspect will be collectables section where you can see your game progress, collected items, weapons and etc.
We will try to think of other things we can improve in this system.

Originally posted by gatesda:

I'd also like the option to have the fire button toggle shooting. It'd be a lot more comfortable than holding the trigger for most of the game.

Just to make sure - do you want an option to press the button once and stop shooting after pressing the button again?

[gatesda]

The core principle behind my suggestions for drops is from Mark Rosewater's GDC talk "20 Years, 20 Lessons". Lesson #13 is "Make the fun part also the correct strategy to win". The core combat is more fun than blowing up bushes, and it's also just more satisfying to get keys and artifacts from defeating enemies.

I can see some advantages to loot in bushes, primarily as a way to catch your breath before the next level. There are games that have two kinds of breakable terrain elements, one that drops loot and one that's just there as a barrier. Just depends on what you're going for.

Originally posted by Applava:

Just to make sure - do you want an option to press the button once and stop shooting after pressing the button again?

Yes. Most of the time I either want to be shooting or don't care if I am, and holding the trigger takes constant effort. It's a small effort, but it adds up over time and it limits how long my play sessions can be.

[Applava]

Originally posted by gatesda:

The core principle behind my suggestions for drops is from Mark Rosewater's GDC talk "20 Years, 20 Lessons". Lesson #13 is "Make the fun part also the correct strategy to win". The core combat is more fun than blowing up bushes, and it's also just more satisfying to get keys and artifacts from defeating enemies.

I can see some advantages to loot in bushes, primarily as a way to catch your breath before the next level. There are games that have two kinds of breakable terrain elements, one that drops loot and one that's just there as a barrier. Just depends on what you're going for.

Originally posted by Applava:

Just to make sure - do you want an option to press the button once and stop shooting after pressing the button again?

Yes. Most of the time I either want to be shooting or don't care if I am, and holding the trigger takes constant effort. It's a small effort, but it adds up over time and it limits how long my play sessions can be.

Ok, we will check the video and see what we can do.
Regarding toggle - we will make it in upcoming updates.