Balance

[DevilBlackDoom]

So here I go on the thread about balancing.

I saw somewhere that the shop always spawns before the boss, if that means it appears before the last boss door (the one when you only have the boss door) it's true, if it means it spawns before the first boss door, it's wrong, I just tested it, and on 2 runs it didn't appear before the first boss door on world 1. Problem is, if you wait the last door, you also get hte difficulty 3 boss, and if you didn't get enough artefact or coins, this can be nasty business.

Bogy, the graveyard boss, feels a bit cheap. Even now I have a technique to beat it without any damage, I just feel like I'm cheesing it. I think the worst thing about him is the fact that sometimes he will try to predict your movement when sending his boomerang, sometimes not, I think this should be more consistent (either always predict or always straight) and compensate with something (faster speed, longer hang time...). But overall he's still great in term of design, and I think everyone can find his own way to abuse his rolling (for me it's waiting at the bottom and going left to right to force him to bounce only on the top and bottom wall).

Artefact drops must be more consistent. They're a core mechanic, and as it stands, I once reached the final boss door of Wordl 1 without a single artifact (forcing me to fight the difficulty 3 toad without any upgrade or better weapon :S).

The Jut : I must admit I don't understand how they work. I've managed to avoid their attacks even without losing line of sight. I assumed they worked like the Archvile in classic Doom, automatically hitting you if in range and in line of sight, but it doesn't seem like so. Still, for a hitscan attack (since it does not spawn a projectile) I feel like 2 dmg is strong.

Max HP items : I think like Binding of Isaac there should be at least one of those spawned when beating bosses (or at least difficulty 2 bosses) as it seems the game does expect you to have more HP later on (with the number of attacks doing 2 or 3 damages increasing as it goes on, and being harder to avoid)

I think that's all for now ^^ I only mentioned what I wish was different of course but Istill love the game, and what I didn't mention I love ! Hope the feedback can help you ;)

Edit : Just remembered this from when I first trie the game (around release) I remember that the Fly Bug could be harmed by somethign that was not the player's fault, and was still going for the player, I think it should chase the damage source !

Also maybe this is a bug or intended, but sometimes I don't get a difficulty 1 door for the boss, only 2 and 3 (sometimes even only 3 if I go to a shop or a key room)

[Applava]

Originally posted by DevilBlackDoom:

So here I go on the thread about balancing.

I saw somewhere that the shop always spawns before the boss, if that means it appears before the last boss door (the one when you only have the boss door) it's true, if it means it spawns before the first boss door, it's wrong, I just tested it, and on 2 runs it didn't appear before the first boss door on world 1. Problem is, if you wait the last door, you also get hte difficulty 3 boss, and if you didn't get enough artefact or coins, this can be nasty business.

Shop door can appear from x til last level of the area. The door will appear randomly in that range. There is a possibility that the shop door will appear twice in the same area. Shop is not intended to be in exact place or level because then your risk is too predictable as you exactly know where you will get the shop door. In current game version risk is preliminary predictable.
Let's take two scenarios when you take one difficult artefact:
1. You found the shop earlier than you expected - you feel more rewarded.
2. You found the shop later than you expected - it makes the player to step out of his comfort zone and after surviving the player realizes that he can achieve more.

Originally posted by DevilBlackDoom:

Bogy, the graveyard boss, feels a bit cheap. Even now I have a technique to beat it without any damage, I just feel like I'm cheesing it. I think the worst thing about him is the fact that sometimes he will try to predict your movement when sending his boomerang, sometimes not, I think this should be more consistent (either always predict or always straight) and compensate with something (faster speed, longer hang time...). But overall he's still great in term of design, and I think everyone can find his own way to abuse his rolling (for me it's waiting at the bottom and going left to right to force him to bounce only on the top and bottom wall).

In the new update all the bosses will be rebalanced. We are working on that.

Originally posted by DevilBlackDoom:

Artefact drops must be more consistent. They're a core mechanic, and as it stands, I once reached the final boss door of Wordl 1 without a single artifact (forcing me to fight the difficulty 3 toad without any upgrade or better weapon :S).

We agree that artefact drops should be adjusted. As the drops depend on various different factors, with every few updates we balance them more.

We will also review all the weapons system in the new update.

Originally posted by DevilBlackDoom:

The Jut : I must admit I don't understand how they work. I've managed to avoid their attacks even without losing line of sight. I assumed they worked like the Archvile in classic Doom, automatically hitting you if in range and in line of sight, but it doesn't seem like so. Still, for a hitscan attack (since it does not spawn a projectile) I feel like 2 dmg is strong.

Once you are in the line of sight of Jut and in specific range, Jut starts charging and if you are still in the line of sight and in the range it strikes the lightning near you (sometimes it can even hit you). The lightning starts following you for some time. You need to avoid only the tip of the lightning.

From all the videos we see that the main reason of player's death in Red Forest are Juts. Soon we will take a look at this enemy, but not in the nearest update.

Originally posted by DevilBlackDoom:

Max HP items : I think like Binding of Isaac there should be at least one of those spawned when beating bosses (or at least difficulty 2 bosses) as it seems the game does expect you to have more HP later on (with the number of attacks doing 2 or 3 damages increasing as it goes on, and being harder to avoid)

We will take that into consideration.

Originally posted by DevilBlackDoom:

I think that's all for now ^^ I only mentioned what I wish was different of course but Istill love the game, and what I didn't mention I love ! Hope the feedback can help you ;)

We glad that you like the game. Thank you for the feedback, it helps a lot :)

Originally posted by DevilBlackDoom:

Edit : Just remembered this from when I first trie the game (around release) I remember that the Fly Bug could be harmed by somethign that was not the player's fault, and was still going for the player, I think it should chase the damage source !

We noted that and will fix it in the future updates.

Originally posted by DevilBlackDoom:

Also maybe this is a bug or intended, but sometimes I don't get a difficulty 1 door for the boss, only 2 and 3 (sometimes even only 3 if I go to a shop or a key room)

It's not a bug. Sometimes it happens that the boss door does not appear in the earliest levels. If you go to the earliest boss door there is still a chance to get difficulty 2 boss.

[DevilBlackDoom]

Originally posted by Applava:

Shop door can appear from x til last level of the area. The door will appear randomly in that range. There is a possibility that the shop door will appear twice in the same area. Shop is not intended to be in exact place or level because then your risk is too predictable as you exactly know where you will get the shop door. In current game version risk is preliminary predictable.
Let's take two scenarios when you take one difficult artefact:
1. You found the shop earlier than you expected - you feel more rewarded.
2. You found the shop later than you expected - it makes the player to step out of his comfort zone and after surviving the player realizes that he can achieve more.

I get the idea, I guess the latter mentioned issue with artifact is the main issue with the shop appearances (more than once it appeared in world 1 without any artefacts dropped and only 3 coins, making it pretty much useless, unless it has another feature obviously) !

Originally posted by Applava:

In the new update all the bosses will be rebalanced. We are working on that.

That's great to hear, can't wait to test it out along with the new weapons you teased in the last update log :D

Originally posted by Applava:

We agree that artefact drops should be adjusted. As the drops depend on various different factors, with every few updates we balance them more.

We will also review all the weapons system in the new update.

Can't wait to test these too, and don't worry about artefacts, while I think it's important to fix their drop rate before release, I think we early accessers can live with it if you have other priorities ;)

Originally posted by Applava:

Once you are in the line of sight of Jut and in specific range, Jut starts charging and if you are still in the line of sight and in the range it strikes the lightning near you (sometimes it can even hit you). The lightning starts following you for some time. You need to avoid only the tip of the lightning.

From all the videos we see that the main reason of player's death in Red Forest are Juts. Soon we will take a look at this enemy, but not in the nearest update.

Yes I think there might be a minor issue. Maybe prevent the lightning from hitting the player (as it makes it pretty much a hitscan 2 damage attack if it hits you directly) ? Don't know, that's a wild suggestion but maybe not the best. Or maybe give it some kind of weakness (not being able to hit you at all if you're too close or, make it track you like Zelda's laser eye statues). Some of the issue may be coming from the fact htat the charge up animation is not very readable, and often once you realize it's charged it may already be too late. So maybe make some flash effect when it starts charging ? ^^

Originally posted by Applava:

We will take that into consideration.
We glad that you like the game. Thank you for the feedback, it helps a lot :)

Thanks to you for creating it, and I will try to give as much feedback as I can on this game !

Originally posted by Applava:

We noted that and will fix it in the future updates.

Thank you :)

Originally posted by Applava:

It's not a bug. Sometimes it happens that the boss door does not appear in the earliest levels. If you go to the earliest boss door there is still a chance to get difficulty 2 boss.

Ok just wanted some clarification. It seems fair honestly considering how easy the diff. 1 bosses are.

[Applava]

Originally posted by DevilBlackDoom:

Originally posted by Applava:

Once you are in the line of sight of Jut and in specific range, Jut starts charging and if you are still in the line of sight and in the range it strikes the lightning near you (sometimes it can even hit you). The lightning starts following you for some time. You need to avoid only the tip of the lightning.

From all the videos we see that the main reason of player's death in Red Forest are Juts. Soon we will take a look at this enemy, but not in the nearest update.

Yes I think there might be a minor issue. Maybe prevent the lightning from hitting the player (as it makes it pretty much a hitscan 2 damage attack if it hits you directly) ? Don't know, that's a wild suggestion but maybe not the best. Or maybe give it some kind of weakness (not being able to hit you at all if you're too close or, make it track you like Zelda's laser eye statues). Some of the issue may be coming from the fact htat the charge up animation is not very readable, and often once you realize it's charged it may already be too late. So maybe make some flash effect when it starts charging ? ^^

Thanks for pointing out that current charge up animation of Jut is not very readable, we will try to improve that. As mentioned before, we will definitely take a look at Jut and make adjustments, but not in the nearest update.