Response to Allegation that Denuvo is managed by Sony (and who are Denuvo, exactly?)

[Hazukitty]

And because I want my own topic to share my own current (and future) research into the subject. Because before we all start rioting, boycotting, and demanding refunds over this, I'd like to talk and have a civilized discussion and infoshare about a few things.

What is Denuvo?
And more interestingly: Who are Denuvo?

And, I'd like to apologize for the abundence of links, but I DO prefer to cite my sources. (except the tvtropes one, that was just me poking fun at Denuvo's management)

If the creator of the previous topic on the matter or its readers bothered to research what a management buyout[www.investopedia.com] is or click the link to the wikipedia article about it[en.wikipedia.org] then we would know that Denuvo is not managed by Sony.
(Sources; previous steam topic, Investopedia, Wikipedia)

A management buyout is where managers of an existing company buy out part or all of an existing company from its owner or parent company. What this means is that the people who own Denuvo used to be employed by Sony, but are not currently employed by them. (that said: a powerpoint I can't link seems to indicate a very close partnership)

For anyone interested in a source that is not wikipedia (and I'm looking for more), click here[www.eurogamer.net] for an article about an interview. (source: Eurogamer)

That said, the team at Denuvo used to be employed by Sony, and if the interview is to bebelieved, they were the team that worked on SecuROM, and what I find amusing is that they insist that their "Anti-Tamper"[tvtropes.org] is not DRM and that only works to augment a game's existing DRM (note; that interview is three years old, things might be different now) and that it is nonfunctional on games without DRM. (tvtropes link; feel free to ignore)

And on the subject of people previously using wikipedia as a source, there's something interesting nobody in that topic brought up: Other than the mention of the MBO, Denuvo's wikipedia article was rather devoid of information about the company's history or founders.

And as far as I can tell from google (I haven't finished combing yet), there seems to be minimal mention about how the company came into being.

Will share further knowledge as its discovered, and if anyone has any further knowledge on the the business details (even a WSJ or other financial journalist article on the buyout), please share. And since I'm bringing up the financial aspect, let's read about potential reasons why we have DRM and why most of them are total BS. pay attention to number 4 (source: Escapist Magazine)

Also a side note before I shut up: for anyone who brings up the articles about how Denuvo is allegedly using unlicensed software to protect their "Anti-Tamper" system, I'd just like to mention that I read an article that indicated that the dispute was settled between them. (Note: cannot source without risking post deletion or ban >.>)

And for fun, in case nobody was aware, Denuvo's powerpoint (the same one mentioned above) is out there on the web to be read if you feel link it. (can't share link, sorry, use google)

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

I suspect the formation of Denuvo went something like... the people who made SecuROM and the infamous Sony rootkit got tired of Sony forcing them to do illegal, shady crap. So they started their own company.

[FunWithTreason]

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

I suspect the formation of Denuvo went something like... the people who made SecuROM and the infamous Sony rootkit got tired of Sony forcing them to do illegal, shady crap. So they started their own company.

where they started to do illegal, shady crap.....they just weren't forced.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by FunWithTreason:

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

I suspect the formation of Denuvo went something like... the people who made SecuROM and the infamous Sony rootkit got tired of Sony forcing them to do illegal, shady crap. So they started their own company.

where they started to do illegal, shady crap.....they just weren't forced.

What is Denuvo doing that's illegal?

[FunWithTreason]

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Originally posted by FunWithTreason:

where they started to do illegal, shady crap.....they just weren't forced.

What is Denuvo doing that's illegal?

perhaps nothing, yet.

but there was the rumour that they were involved in piracy themeselves, it was quickly cleared up, but who knows if there was a bit of truth to it.

[Hazukitty]

Originally posted by FunWithTreason:

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

What is Denuvo doing that's illegal?

perhaps nothing, yet.

but there was the rumour that they were involved in piracy themeselves, it was quickly cleared up, but who knows if there was a bit of truth to it.

According to articles[www.techdirt.com] (I found one I can link), an employee with VMProtect is the one who made the original allegation.

The fact that it came from a russian forum seemed a bit sketchy, so I did a little reading and found the VMProtect[vmpsoft.com] is in fact, a Russian company. (source: VMProtect official website)

Now, if we take it as true, then after dealing with it out of court, both sides now want to pretend it never happened, as VMProtect is presently denying there was ever a problem. (Source: blog tab on VMProtect's website)

[=)]

Good on you for collecting the evidence and finding the facts! 8)

[ZylpheRenuis]

Now if only someone could actually make a stable case regarding American/European Legislature in finding WHAT laws they have broken and crossed.
Then obviously there might be a who case of worms open and all the legality mumbo jumbo would be brought out.

That the End User License Agreement though touches on parts where it protects the company and its subsideraries it might be a tough case to crack.

Good luck

[jmendezlolol]

Originally posted by Hazukitty:

And because I want my own topic to share my own current (and future) research into the subject. Because before we all start rioting, boycotting, and demanding refunds over this, I'd like to talk and have a civilized discussion and infoshare about a few things.

What is Denuvo?
And more interestingly: Who are Denuvo?

And, I'd like to apologize for the abundence of links, but I DO prefer to cite my sources. (except the tvtropes one, that was just me poking fun at Denuvo's management)

If the creator of the previous topic on the matter or its readers bothered to research what a management buyout[www.investopedia.com] is or click the link to the wikipedia article about it[en.wikipedia.org] then we would know that Denuvo is not managed by Sony.
(Sources; previous steam topic, Investopedia, Wikipedia)

A management buyout is where managers of an existing company buy out part or all of an existing company from its owner or parent company. What this means is that the people who own Denuvo used to be employed by Sony, but are not currently employed by them. (that said: a powerpoint I can't link seems to indicate a very close partnership)

For anyone interested in a source that is not wikipedia (and I'm looking for more), click here[www.eurogamer.net] for an article about an interview. (source: Eurogamer)

That said, the team at Denuvo used to be employed by Sony, and if the interview is to bebelieved, they were the team that worked on SecuROM, and what I find amusing is that they insist that their "Anti-Tamper"[tvtropes.org] is not DRM and that only works to augment a game's existing DRM (note; that interview is three years old, things might be different now) and that it is nonfunctional on games without DRM. (tvtropes link; feel free to ignore)

And on the subject of people previously using wikipedia as a source, there's something interesting nobody in that topic brought up: Other than the mention of the MBO, Denuvo's wikipedia article was rather devoid of information about the company's history or founders.

And as far as I can tell from google (I haven't finished combing yet), there seems to be minimal mention about how the company came into being.

Will share further knowledge as its discovered, and if anyone has any further knowledge on the the business details (even a WSJ or other financial journalist article on the buyout), please share. And since I'm bringing up the financial aspect, let's read about potential reasons why we have DRM and why most of them are total BS. pay attention to number 4 (source: Escapist Magazine)

Also a side note before I shut up: for anyone who brings up the articles about how Denuvo is allegedly using unlicensed software to protect their "Anti-Tamper" system, I'd just like to mention that I read an article that indicated that the dispute was settled between them. (Note: cannot source without risking post deletion or ban >.>)

And for fun, in case nobody was aware, Denuvo's powerpoint (the same one mentioned above) is out there on the web to be read if you feel link it. (can't share link, sorry, use google)

DENUVO was founded by SONY DADC DIGITAL WORKS - with his president Reinhart Blaukovistch - who surprisedly left Sony and bought DENUVO. He keeps working for Sony, implementing anti-consumer policies to affect the PC gaming market, then to force pc market to buy a filthy DOWNGRADED CONSOLE.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by jmendezlolol:

Originally posted by Hazukitty:

And because I want my own topic to share my own current (and future) research into the subject. Because before we all start rioting, boycotting, and demanding refunds over this, I'd like to talk and have a civilized discussion and infoshare about a few things.

What is Denuvo?
And more interestingly: Who are Denuvo?

And, I'd like to apologize for the abundence of links, but I DO prefer to cite my sources. (except the tvtropes one, that was just me poking fun at Denuvo's management)

If the creator of the previous topic on the matter or its readers bothered to research what a management buyout[www.investopedia.com] is or click the link to the wikipedia article about it[en.wikipedia.org] then we would know that Denuvo is not managed by Sony.
(Sources; previous steam topic, Investopedia, Wikipedia)

A management buyout is where managers of an existing company buy out part or all of an existing company from its owner or parent company. What this means is that the people who own Denuvo used to be employed by Sony, but are not currently employed by them. (that said: a powerpoint I can't link seems to indicate a very close partnership)

For anyone interested in a source that is not wikipedia (and I'm looking for more), click here[www.eurogamer.net] for an article about an interview. (source: Eurogamer)

That said, the team at Denuvo used to be employed by Sony, and if the interview is to bebelieved, they were the team that worked on SecuROM, and what I find amusing is that they insist that their "Anti-Tamper"[tvtropes.org] is not DRM and that only works to augment a game's existing DRM (note; that interview is three years old, things might be different now) and that it is nonfunctional on games without DRM. (tvtropes link; feel free to ignore)

And on the subject of people previously using wikipedia as a source, there's something interesting nobody in that topic brought up: Other than the mention of the MBO, Denuvo's wikipedia article was rather devoid of information about the company's history or founders.

And as far as I can tell from google (I haven't finished combing yet), there seems to be minimal mention about how the company came into being.

Will share further knowledge as its discovered, and if anyone has any further knowledge on the the business details (even a WSJ or other financial journalist article on the buyout), please share. And since I'm bringing up the financial aspect, let's read about potential reasons why we have DRM and why most of them are total BS. pay attention to number 4 (source: Escapist Magazine)

Also a side note before I shut up: for anyone who brings up the articles about how Denuvo is allegedly using unlicensed software to protect their "Anti-Tamper" system, I'd just like to mention that I read an article that indicated that the dispute was settled between them. (Note: cannot source without risking post deletion or ban >.>)

And for fun, in case nobody was aware, Denuvo's powerpoint (the same one mentioned above) is out there on the web to be read if you feel link it. (can't share link, sorry, use google)

DENUVO was founded by SONY DADC DIGITAL WORKS - with his president Reinhart Blaukovistch - who surprisedly left Sony and bought DENUVO. He's keeps working for Sony, implementing anti-consumer practices to affect the PC gaming market, then to force pc market to buy a filthy DOWNGRADED CONSOLE.

Or he and Denuvo left Sony because they were tired of the higher ups forcing them to implement the illegal shady crap like the rootkit, and they wanted to actually distance themselves from Sony for their own reputations' sake...

[jmendezlolol]

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Or he and Denuvo left Sony because they were tired of the higher ups forcing them to implement the illegal shady crap like the rootkit, and they wanted to actually distance themselves from Sony for their own reputations' sake...

But who could guarantee that Denuvo still being operated by Sony? The CEO of Denuvo had a hight position in Sony, but then he buyout Denuvo? Who knows... And DENUVO fits perfect about how to dismantle the PC gaming industry.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by jmendezlolol:

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Or he and Denuvo left Sony because they were tired of the higher ups forcing them to implement the illegal shady crap like the rootkit, and they wanted to actually distance themselves from Sony for their own reputations' sake...

But who could guarantee that Denuvo still being operated by Sony? The CEO of Denuvo had a hight position in Sony, but then he buyout Denuvo? Who knows... And DENUVO fits perfect about how to dismantle the PC gaming industry.

Umm no, because they would get sued to hell by the publishers they give their software to, and without the backing of a big company like Sony which was forfeited in the buyout, they would not be able to recover.

[jmendezlolol]

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Originally posted by jmendezlolol:

But who could guarantee that Denuvo still being operated by Sony? The CEO of Denuvo had a hight position in Sony, but then he buyout Denuvo? Who knows... And DENUVO fits perfect about how to dismantle the PC gaming industry.

Umm no, because they would get sued to hell by the publishers they give their software to, and without the backing of a big company like Sony which was forfeited in the buyout, they would not be able to recover.

It doesn't matter... But check these low sales on Steam since Denuvo was implemented: https://galyonk.in/steam-sales-in-2016-def2a8ab15f2
Anyways, these DRM policies are affecting pc gaming, and it will cause the extinction of PC gaming industry.

[Hazukitty]

Originally posted by jmendezlolol:

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Or he and Denuvo left Sony because they were tired of the higher ups forcing them to implement the illegal shady crap like the rootkit, and they wanted to actually distance themselves from Sony for their own reputations' sake...

But who could guarantee that Denuvo still being operated by Sony? The CEO of Denuvo had a hight position in Sony, but then he buyout Denuvo? Who knows... And DENUVO fits perfect about how to dismantle the PC gaming industry.

Okay, there is no proof that Denuvo is not a sony puppet, as the leaked powerpoint (did anyone look that up?) I mentioned in the first post explicitly states they have a close working relationship.

Second, I looked up Reinhard Blaukovitsch...

Originally posted by jmendezlolol:

DENUVO was founded by SONY DADC DIGITAL WORKS - with his president Reinhart Blaukovistch - who surprisedly left Sony and bought DENUVO. He keeps working for Sony, implementing anti-consumer policies to affect the PC gaming market, then to force pc market to buy a filthy DOWNGRADED CONSOLE.

If you did your research, then you would know that he was not the president, he was Senior Vice President[at.linkedin.com], and to my understanding its pretty bad form to lie on LinkedIn. Also, I admit I'm basing my understanding of corporate hierachy on wikipedia, but a Senior VP is 4th on a ladder, below Executive VP, Deputy President, and President (depending on how a company is structured, of course). (source: LinkedIn)

Also, president of a company is a bit more of a busy job than the movies would make it seem like, he wouldn't have time to be both President of Denuvo and some executive position in Sony. And while it is common for people to be seated on a company's (or more than one company's) board while working or owning another company, Sony's board[www.sony.com] is a matter of public record[www.bloomberg.com]. (sources: Sony's official website, Bloomberg

That stated, none of this disproves the notion of collusion, and it is not uncommon for company owners (or even politicians, how do you think politicans have corporate connections?) to maintain close relationships to companies they formerly worked for if they parted on congenial terms.

But again, he's focusing on the wrong thing to throw suspicion on Denuvo. Its the both the lack of information on Denuvo and the contradiction in existing information. Partnership with Sony proves nothing other than working relationship, and their powerpoint seems to indicate that they act as a third party provider for Sony's existing DRM systems. Notably it mentions both Denuvo's "Anti-Tamper" software AND Sony's SecurROM. Selling a product you don't own is a bit of a legal grey area, but it mostly depends on the agreement you have with the owner.

They're also dealing in Screen Pass (DVD/Video DRM product offered by sony), and their own Ebook DRM software, sorry "User Rights Management". Though I DO find the fact that they run their own QC service for the film industry to check things like menus, subtitles, and content to be kind of weird.

Now, there IS conflict in information their official powerpoint states they were founded in 2014, Bloomberg seems to think it was in 2013[www.bloomberg.com]. (source: Bloomberg)

And the first game to use Denuvo's "Anti-Tampering" software was Fifa 13, which came out in 2012. Which could be collusion, or it could be "we made a thing and we don't want to share the copyright with Sony, lets go into business for ourselves.", you know, good old-fashioned greed.

Originally posted by jmendezlolol:

It doesn't matter... But check these low sales on Steam since Denuvo was implemented: https://galyonk.in/steam-sales-in-2016-def2a8ab15f2
Anyways, these DRM policies are affecting pc gaming, and it will cause the extinction of PC gaming industry.

But of course, since their "Anti-Tamper" software is the most well known service, we only want to look at an evil conspiracy to kill the computer gaming industry and ignore the rest of it, don't we?

And... before you give me some response insisting Sony is behind it all and that I'm completely wrong, you (and everyone else really) might want to read this.[www.gamasutra.com] They state outright in an interview that they made it on EA's behalf and that they were the first backer of the software. (and rereading the Eurogamer article, I'm starting to interpret it as FIFA 13 and 14 being trial runs for the software and FIFA 15 being the first official release) Now, regardless of which one was the first use of Denuvo... it is worth pointing out that the series is developed by EA.

[Crashed]

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

I suspect the formation of Denuvo went something like... the people who made SecuROM and the infamous Sony rootkit got tired of Sony forcing them to do illegal, shady crap. So they started their own company.

The rootkit was a 3rd party called First4Internet and I'm sure Sony didn't even know what was going into their "CDs". Quotes used because the discs did not comply with the Compact Disc standard.