Why I'm worried about the future of Sonic after Mania

[Mutated Plush]

I don't want Sega to make more classic Sonic games in fear they'll be just as nostalgia pandering as they have been in this recent anniversay, especially considering that 60% of the game is just old stages.
However, I fear that Sega would do something like that if Forces and Mania don't do just as well as each other.
If Forces has a ton of original stages and does better than Sonic Mania in terms of reviews and sales, I bet Sega would be less pandery in terms of nostalgia next anniversay, but this anniversay was just a mess of nostalgia bait to get our nostalgia boners goin'.

I hope that this trend doesn't continue.

Overall though, I hope Mania is a great game and I hope that Forces is just as good, if not, better!

[Shark Bait]

Originally posted by Plush:

I don't want Sega to make more classic Sonic games in fear they'll be just as nostalgia pandering as they have been in this recent anniversay

But that's successful.

[Mutated Plush]

Originally posted by Green Shadow Android:

Originally posted by Plush:

I don't want Sega to make more classic Sonic games in fear they'll be just as nostalgia pandering as they have been in this recent anniversay

But that's successful.

And it shouldn't be. Sega has been nostalgia pandering since Colours, the current director of Sonic Team seems to be going forward while also going back.

Colours added the Wisps, which is a step forward because it's adding something new. How did it go backwards? It made 90% of the game 2D, with the actual 3D sections feeling like just a fatter 2D section.

Lost World added parkour. Step forward! It also made Sonic play more like Classic Sonic and bring back Flickies, along with nothing but classic enemies. Step backwards...

Mania is a new 2D Sonic game with a ton of new stages that we've never seen Sonic go through, along with a new ability: the drop dash. Step foward! 60% of the stages are stages we've already played in, despite not being the official 25th anniversay game (Forces is the 25th anniversary title). Step backwards...

Forces has Eggman concour 99% of the world with Sonic, his friends, G.U.N, and a custom character helping to take back the world. Step forward! It has Classic Sonic. Step backwards...

See what I mean? We can't let Sonic Team pander to nostalgia anymore, it can only go on for so long before it just becomes a staple in the series instead of a little treat for the fans.

[Shark Bait]

Originally posted by Plush:

Originally posted by Green Shadow Android:

But that's successful.

And it shouldn't be.

Um what? Mania's getting positive reviews it clearly should be.

[Mutated Plush]

Originally posted by Green Shadow Android:

Originally posted by Plush:

And it shouldn't be.

Um what? Mania's getting positive reviews it clearly should be.

In my eyes Mania isn't a new game, it's basically Sonic Gems Collection with some added levels. Or, since the fandom is saying it a lot recently, Sonic Mania to me is Generations 2.

Look, I'm sure Mania is fantastic and I'll be picking both it and Forces up when it launches, but I just want Sega to stop pandering to our childhoods and just move forward, it's getting tiring now. I'm done with returing stages, I'm done with old Sonic meeting new Sonic, I'm done with the flood of nostalgia bait that Sega flooded us with on the 25th anniversary and just ask one simple thing: Make a game that pushes forward, not brings us back, and (if you're going to use it) use nostalgia as a bonus and not as a crutch.

I'm fine with Mania 2, but please Sega, just make it have nostalgia as a little treat for being a fan of the game and catching the reference instead of making it the crutch to sell your game.

I may seem like I hate Mania but I don't, I love the Sonic series and just don't like the direction it's heading, and I'm sure people agree with me.

[Ikagura]

Sega should stop making Sonic games that's all

[Shark Bait]

Originally posted by Ikagura:

Sega should stop making Sonic games that's all

They've never made games, they publish them.

[Naijiro]

I think Sonic Mania is the best Sonic game yet, I want LESS games like Sonic forces and more like Sonic Mania but with original levels, I think the only reason why the Mania team had to pander to nostalgia was simply because they were forced by Sonic Team to be a throw back and a celebration of the past games to play it safe and to prove themselves.

But now that they have, I hope they work on something new involving Classic sonic.

[Mutated Plush]

Originally posted by JayPi:

I think Sonic Mania is the best Sonic game yet, I want LESS games like Sonic forces and more like Sonic Mania but with original levels, I think the only reason why the Mania team had to pander to nostalgia was simply because they were forced by Sonic Team to be a throw back and a celebration of the past games to play it safe and to prove themselves.

But now that they have, I hope they work on something new involving Classic sonic.

Why do you want less of Forces? You never really elaborated on that point.

[lPaladinl]

Nah, we'll need newer 2d Sonic games, which already happens at least with "Ports" (Sega needs to get with the times and stop doing different port versions for the same titles). Like Sonic Boom was on 3DS with a generally pretty different game, that some people arguably think is better than the original Sonic Boom. Then you also had Fire and Ice for 3DS exclusively.

I can understand Sega taking the direction they are because they are playing it safe. Everytime Sega has taken a new direction, people hated it, or in the case of colors, not very many people heard of it or played it.

Generations worked, people loved Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic on Rails. So now we've got a solid push on a Retro Sonic and if anything, Sonic Forces is what looks like "Generations 2", having both generations of sonic to play stages in both new and old styles with 3d and 2d perspectives for controls...

I'm sure whatever comes next from Sonic Team or Sega's money put into Sonic again will be something different again. Likely another take on trying to appeal to the Mario audience like Lost World and Sonic Boom kind-of were.

Personally, I'd just like to see them port over the rest of the Sonic library to Steam, considering how many games we have already here, but we're still missing games like Shadow the Hedgehog, Unleashed, Colors, Sonic Boom, The Sonic Advance series, Sonic the Fighters, Sonic Riders, etc. etc.

I already know that I enjoyed Shadow a lot, the rest I would like to have just to be able to have again or check out if I haven't played them.

I would also like to see a Sonic Mania 2, or rather just the continuation of Retro Sonic as well, though I would also prefer all original levels as well (I was hoping this would have more original levels to be honest.)

Just keep in mind that Sega has more than just Sonic Team and they tend to get different people to work on different types of games for the franchise. Whitehead is a pretty solid developer for Retro stuff. Sonic Team does what they think they need to, and I like that they still branch out to try new stuff sometimes. Every now and then you've got other third party developers to mix things up.

[Mutated Plush]

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

Sonic Forces is what looks like "Generations 2", having both generations of sonic to play stages in both new and old styles with 3d and 2d perspectives for controls...

The only aspect of Sonic Forces being Generations 2 is the fact Classic Sonic is returning and that we saw Green Hill Zone. To me, Mania is more of Generations 2 because the point of Generations wasn't to see Classic and Modern run around together, it was to explore Sonic's history, something Mania is doing very well.
Forces seems (as of right now on the 14th of Aug. 2017) to contain more original stages than Mania.
That, and Classic, Modern, and Avatar seem to have their own stories like Sonic Adventure instead of having both Classic and Modern exploring the story at the same time like Generations.
Which makes me wonder... will Forces be the first game since Sonic 06 to have a "true ending" mode...?

[Quad Hot Caco]

I myself am concerned about the future of the franchise. Since Sonic Generations, and in particular with Mania and Forces, Sega, in particular Sonic Team as currently led by Takashi Iizuka, seems dead set on keeping Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic their own entities that are exactly as presented, contemporary technology and trends be damned, and not just different, progressively less fuzzy depictions of the same entity, not just in terms of the art styles, but of the characters across the eras being separate yet coexistent versions, whether Sonic talks or not, whether his friends are playable outside of the main mode or not, the types of levels each era gets, etc., and seems to be expecting us to take all of it seriously. This I consider a problem since it suddenly muddles the series's identity within its main canon as opposed to when there were many Sonic canons each with their own largely-consistent identity, and may even be ironic since Generations's story, at least to me, seems like a self-satire. Leave it to Iizuka to screw that pooch.

My main worry is that, regardless of the relative successes of Mania and Forces, the two eras will never find a middle ground, continuing to run their separate paths with only their own characteristics in tow. And if one game ends up dominating the other, we could be stuck with mostly that era's game style for the foreseeable future. In any case, the series looks to end up becoming so constrained by its own rules that it'll soon be unable to evolve and eventually atrophy. I sort of wish that Mania and Forces didn't exist—not as they are, anyway. I mean, even though I'm not a fan of most of Forces's ideas, I can at least certainly get behind the "Eggman's all but won" plot. If Sonic Team had even one neuron and the game's other ideas were more agreeable, actually taking from the Classic games and evolving to fit the third dimension, plus a handful of non-Classic elements whether old or new, all while managing to play well, Mania would have considerably less reason to exist, though it would still be nice to have it as a bonus. (And for purists like moi, go ahead and throw in a Classic/Modern character look toggle a la the Lucasfilm Games/Lucasarts adventure remasters or the HD editions of Street Fighter II, 'cause why not? :<P)

[crazycupmuffin]

Because we are living in a 3-dimensional universe. It is completely impossible for us to ever see or understand the 4th dimension. We can put a 4th dimension into a computer and it will output it easily, as it's just numbers to it. But that is of no use to humans whatsoever.

There are quite possibly 4-dimensional beings of some kind living right among us that we cannot see or understand. Even if they were to come into view in our world........we would only see a 3-dimensional representation of what they actually look like as it is physically impossible for us to comprehend it.

Imagine a sphere being put into a 2-dimensional videogame. The sphere could be put in, but it will not look like a sphere inside the 2-dimensional world. It will merely look like a 2-dimensional circle. Fascinating.

[Ikagura]

Sega should abandon Sonic and let people like Whitehead do the games instead

[Gnidex]

I just hope they will stop reusing stages. I'd love to see Mania 2 and more Modern games, but without old stages. New zones, new stories, new gameplay styles.

[Ikagura]

Originally posted by Gnidex:

I just hope they will stop reusing stages. I'd love to see Mania 2 and more Modern games, but without old stages. New zones, new stories, new gameplay styles.

Mania 2 yes, even Mania 3 & Knuckles.

But stop making Modern games, just stop