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There are two different types of digital card games like this, MTGO and the other digital trading card games are just like paper trading card games, except the card prices are about half of what their paper counterparts are. They also for the most part have multiplayer games, full chat without toxicity and are for a more mature crowd.
Then there are the CCGs made for babysitting kids that only started getting popular with Hearthstone. That is why it has endless grinds and gold coins and daily quests particpation trophy ranks and night and blood elves on the cards, all just like in the game mommy and daddy play. It kept our kids out of our hair during guild raids. I don't thnk Blizz or us parents expected so many grown men to come along and pay up to 400m a year to lose to our kids while getting rope burned and spammed with emotes. But I for one got thousands of hours of free babysitting out of them.
Both are equually viable but the difference between being able to grind for worthless nerfable cards and doing keeper drafts for valuable ones changes everything on a fundamental level from the motivation to play to the enjoyment you get from playing.
So beware anyone that tries to blur the lines between them as Artifact is the perfect example of why the two don't mix and whether Valve admitted they don't know the difference between the two despite hiring the man that made the best of both to explain it to them because they are inept or because they were pulling a bait and switch cash grab scam is debatable, but what is not is that it ran off most of the people that had just bought more Artifact cards in the first three weeks than they bought MtG cards in the first three and spent more doing so than even Hearthstone made in it's best month.
That's right, despite what the doom posters would have you believe, Artifact toppled paper MtG, MTGO, and Hearthstone and was briefly number one in all three genres. It was the most sucessfully launced CCG or TCG paper or digital in history. Which makes Valve utterly flubbing it up in less than a month that much more epic of a fail, and Artifact the biggest joke right now in both PC and TC gaming and it has been for over a month.
The amount of cards in digital trading card games are limited too, they stop selling boosters of each set after a while.
I recently logged back onto MTGO after years and my cards were right there still waiting for me. That is the single difference between the business model Artifact released with and other digital trading card games. Valve decided not to let us trade our cards with our friends or give us a sbforum titled "Trading" to trade them in like literally every single other one of the thosuands of games with trading cards on Steam, which forces us to use their marketplace where they take up to 50% of every trade. YuGiOh might be different, I'm not bsure as I've not tried that one. This alone made many of us believe that they were just trying to rip us off.
Players can and do organise their own tournaments and leagues. I've played dozens of digital trading card games and collectible card games and never encountered any cheating or gameply manipulation that wasn't by design, to make a puzzle for example or solo content have a deck shuffled in a certain order to add a little challenge. But if a card interaction is bugged and exploitable people will find it and abuse it until it gets fixed. We policed our own in MTGO, your own teammates wil kick you if you get toxic in chat, go afk, or use a bugged card, but when it is a 1v1 CCG or draft or something all you can do is take the loss and report them. Matchmaking is game dependant, ladders, ELO, etc. Profies here are private here because they are harassed. The Steam community are by far and wide the most toxic community I've encountered in almost 40 years of gaming. Not eveyone is a bad apple, but until Artifact gets a seperate profile a lot of them will remain private.
CCGs take a heavier hand and nerf cards because those cards are worthless and untradable. Trading cards whether digital or physical have value and should never be nerfed. But Valve did it anyways, and ran off a large portion of their payerbase by doing so and caused those that remained to be much more wary. Sinc eany card could be next, the most powwerful and desired are thenmost likely to get the nerfbat next, and so people don't want to spend money on them, or even on the game, because CCGs are usually free to play and so many are waiting for it to be before they buy it.
The backlash against the game is by far the worst I've ever seen for any either and the business model is only the beginning. Valve fans wanting it to be Half Life 3 come here to hate on it, the people wanting it to go free to play post the concurrent player numbers and twitch viewers many times a day and tak about it dyng, as do Valve and Steam's haters. And those are just the people without the mouse icon nextto their name.
Then you have the trading card game players that Valve betrayed by starting to do a complete 180 in design philosophy and convert it from a TCG to a CCG after they had just played a big part in making Artifact the most sucessfully launched of either whether paper or digital in history, and the CCG players still aren't happy because the grind is longer than any other and it still isn't free to play.
But there are also glaring issues with the gameplay tself, most notably the fact that it has more RNG and almost no strategy than any other. We've been lately calling Artfiction a coin flipping simulator disguised as a card game, because win or lose or watch, none of you will ever know the game ended on turn 8 because one of you deployed a hero into the middle lane instead of the left lane in turn 4. If you don't know why you won or lost, how can you ever improve or stratigize?
Then there is arrow screw and worse color scfrew, both of which make mana screw a pleasant dream in comparison, because while you can mulligan or top deck and fix manascrew, or at worst scoop a coule turns in and start a new gae, the ones in this game can happen thruout the game and even cost you it. These gameplay issues can be fixed easily enough, I just don't think Valve can or will or even cares.
This one is not the one to invest in. You can buy extra cards behyond what you can put in a deck but their prices will likely only drop after release until things change and there are these marketplace monopoly masters setting the prices, buying cards and items from other games cheap and relisting them for more. Valve is in on the scam, tey made the drops and marketplace and get a cut frokm every item sold o matter how many times it is resold so it isn't ikely to change.
But card prices on average in digital card games I played were about half that of their physical counterparts and both on average rose over the decades I played them. My MTGO collection is worth a bit more now than it was when I stopped playing 7 years ago on average. They don't nerf cards in trading card games because you are supposed to have valuable and powerful ones but at the same time they are pretty good about rereleasing the really ridiculously overpriced ones and fixing broken ones and phasing out the too powerful and at worst banning the OP ones. They aso try to do a lateral trade off instead of a nerf when they want to get rid of a broken mechanic.
Unfortunately Valve just nerfs and admitted in the 1.2 patch notes that that is their design philosophy, which means this should have been a CCG from the beginning and they are likely working to go all the way F2P CCG right now. They have the trifecta of a toxic fanbase, corporate greed, and inept development, so I'm glad you like the game, just don't expct it to ever be great and for a lot of changes to come.
You're welcome. I love theory crafting and talking about these games and have been playing them and doing so since 1992, but Valve doesn't love me doing it and tends to delete it and ban me when I get critical. So you might want to copy and paste this somewhere.
Also true, but do you agree that you have freedom over your cards that you bought?
i was free to sell them, which i did, so id say yes.
i get why people want to trade them, but i also get why it isnt allowed. this isnt the first game ive played where friends and I werent able to trade items in. wont be the last. there are games coming out this quarter where you cant trade items. so i cant sit here and vilify or mudsling at valve for making that choice. its not even the only card game where you cant trade cards....
I made this thread to find out what the differences are between real cardgames from paper cards (not other digital cardgames) and Artifact.
So I snapped your answer because I think it's unrelated to my post.
I read it all and I agree somewhat but I don't want to derail my own topic.
So in respons:
I don't want to speculate and assume all kind of things I don't know. I don't even know the team who is working in the game. I don't know who is involved etc. So I don't gonna talk about it.
What I think is that if the goal was to simulate a real paper card game it's unsuccesful in it's current form, like many other cardgames.
Stop selling boosters in a digital cardgame is not the same as stop selling boosters for a real life card game if the cards themselves cannot be traded. Real paper cards does not dissapear in space when the booster is not sold anymore. This is a difference. So is the rarity of cards. You can not bound any value to infinite digital content.
In short:
- I agree with ingame playerprofiles players should be able to setup with the choosen info to share. Same like a lobby.
- I disagree that the game should be free to play. I see the one time buy as the starter kit you buy if you want to support this game. If not, many other games to play or convince company x to make a f2p game like Artifact.
- I'm tending to agree that early changes directly after release looks like panic action. I don't understand it at all. Why not watch the game you create and release evolve over a period of time.
I hope this was once.
- I disagree that Valve should not make money over the sold cards.
- I don't leave the game when it get's free to play, but I do not support it and will probably not buy any pack/card anymore. I will also ask (demand eventually) for compensation for what I already bought.
- I like my own suggestion the most like every player here. So I'm totally biased towards my own opinion. If I start a thread about the differences between Artifact and real paper card games it is because I want to discuss it and not discuss other cardgames on Steam.
- I like if they make this game a simulation of real paper card games and try to simulate the experience and economy at best. So I like to see no Free to play model. I like to see real ownership and freedom of cards, more transperancy over every element in the game (matchmaking, profiles, card drops and carddraws etc).
- I like to see some subforums to make discussion easier.
- Trolls, simply ignore them, the only way to get rid of them. Do not respond directly and use report button.
- When people are allowed to sell/share/giveaway or even burn their own cards, it can attract a new playerbase, it can create a community, it can create price changes in the marketplace.
For example I can organize a small tournament and set a card as a reward.
I can giveaway a card while I'm playing on Twitch or YT for example.
You can persuade friends easier into the game.
Players can eventually start guilds/teams.
I only see profit from it.
- Combined with cards that are really limited (so they can really get "sold out"), this will give a unique experience and will change the marketplace.
- It creates incentives for active players who really like/play and follow the game (no farmers and bots) for free.
I spent $200 on this bait and switch cash grab scam and got less than half back in Steam funny money. I'd have gotten a lot less if I waited until now.
In every single other trading card game we've ever played I'd have gotten about the same or more for my collection, not pennies on the dollar if I sold it a month after I bought it. "We" being the real trading card game players. No, this isn't a trading card game and no, you aren't one if you support it.
We aren't interested in your skewed narrative. We've been busy teling everyone who will listen for a month what horrible developers Valve is and what horrible toxic fanbois they have that will get ripped off by them and play the worst of these games ever made from beginning to end and defend it. And you are certainly no exception. You've bought over 800 games from them in less than 5 years, that is two a day which is admittedly pretty impressive. I wish I had that kind of time.
So it is perfectly understandable that you will, like many others, defend Valve and Steam in this toxic little echo chamber full of some of the worst gamers and indeed people I've encountered on the planet. And that is saying something since I started the most hardcore league you can imagine in a level 4 supermax by making MtG cards from memory out of milk cartons.
So stop worrying!
This horrible game, scummy developer, toxic community and you all truly deserve each other.
as i said i understand both sides to it. i dont disagree with you either. it is what it is though.
800 games over five years is not two a day. There you go with your math.
Anyway I feel bad for you that you don't feel you get any value for the money you invested in this game based on your perception what it could become.
I don't feel insulted by the fact you refuse to call me a cardgame player when I play Artifact.
I appreciate your honestly about the bandwagon who jumped in with the false arguments.
Also I hope my ideas and suggestions will be read and at least getting, a very modest, place in the discussion since I think my suggestions makes the game better.
And don't take it all too serious. It's a game in the end. It should be fun.
I earned more boosters from losing keeper drafts that first week than you could now earn thru gameplay in a year. But Valve sucked the fun out of that format like they did nearly every other aspect of this game compared to the rest.
I hope my criticism gets read too. That Valve becomes a better developer. Because this isn't about the money, none of us that got burnt by them spent something we couldn't afford.
Well it isn't about the money for us. The problem is it was for them.