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P.S. That monster zone (Saunil Elvia) wants you to have 650+ Total AP.
if you look on the monster info it says 650+ (650 is the minimum) then below it, says 813 restricted (this is the maximum) for the zone and anything above it will start to impact negatively.
You want to get your total AP as close to that max number as you can without hitting it or going over it, so if you try and get your total AP to 810-812 region then you will be pretty much hitting them as hard as possible :)
P.s look me up in game if you want to chat on the subject :)
Especially for helping me understand the 813 part of the monster zone information.
Honorable mention to Karna5 for hitting me up in chat with the information you shared.
😊
Going over ap caps just gives less returns on ap, doesn't reduce the damage you deal. What OP (tsel) should do is reach the cap and then turn to uncapped stats, such as crit rate damage, back attack damage, etc. But stacking ap beyond the cap does in fact impact damage significantly.
You all have helped me a lot.
Now I need to get to the next AP level to grind more efficiently at Saunil.
Greatly appreciated. 😊
"Monster Zone AP Cap Explained
Monster zone AP Cap is experienced when you reach high levels of AP in certain monster zones. It feels like your additional AP stacking efforts have had no effect to help you kill mobs faster.
Monster Zone AP Caps require a bit of explanation and math to understand.
Rec AP: Recommended AP is the “Optimal AP” visible in the world map and monster zone UI. This is the AP you compare with the AP listed in your Inventory. Optimal AP ignores the hidden AP of your character. (This is why it may seem low compared to AP that adds hidden AP like the Min/Max AP categories below.)
Other Monster Zone Chart Definitions:
Min AP: This AP adds all AP, including hidden AP. If you try to fight in a monster zone below this number, then you are doomed!!! You only get 5% of AP counted.
Max AP: This AP adds all AP, including hidden AP. This is the maximum AP that will give you 100% of your AP. Any AP over this amount is counted less, from 0 to 70%.
AP Cap %: Some monster zones have 0% (hard ap cap) in which no extra AP will count. These include many zones in Mediah. Elvia is similar, only allowing 5%."
source: https://grumpygreen.cricket/bdo-grinding-spots/?cn-reloaded=1
There is loads of guides out there that say the same thing going beyond an AP cap for a zone is kind of pointless, especially if you are using purchased buffs to go beyond the cap limit, you are effectively wasting the buffs :)
Edit: forgot to add about this lol
I do agree however on the back attack and criticals for the most notable increases in damage :)
I myself play awakened lahn as main, my skill addons are based around critical damage, back attack damage, enemy DP down and monster AP up,
my crystals are basically the same with 26% increase to back attack +84 to accuracy as accuracy is another big deciding factor when grinding :)
Going over caps on ap changes ap effectiveness from 1:1 to 1:0.5 etc, it doesn't cause you to deal less damage than you would by sitting at the cap. If you have a monster spot with a 1000 ap cap and a 30% softcap it means that were you to have 1100 ap you would deal damage at the spot as if you had 1070 rather than 1100 because you lose 30% due to the cap. Now some spots like giants are 95% caps. Meaning that if you used the same equation of 1000 ap cap and you had 1100 ap you would be dealing damage as if you had 1005 damage as the 100 ap over cap is reduced by 95%. Species damage is immune to softcaps, as is extra damage from crits, back attacks, etc.
There is no spot in the game which has a 100% softcap, ergo no damage over X value deals damage. You can always deal more damage with more ap, it's just better to look to alternative sources such as species damage as you can usually get more bang for your buck. Now species damage is applied on average at 70% of a normal ap, meaning you don't want to utilize species damage until you're over caps because it's less AP than just all AP or monster AP (both are 1 ap each, species ap is .7) Species damage also is unaffected by softcaps entirely, and isn't figured into your total ap, it's a separate damage stat that applies regardless of caps.
The conversation between you two has helped me see the obvious as to why one would use the very expensive crystals for grinding.
Artifacts / Lightstones, Draughts, Elixirs, Meals, and Buffs (Church, Tent or Villa). They only get one so far in reaching that optimal Hidden AP Bracket when combined with Recorded AP.
I know it's obvious, but I was not seeing that until now.
Thank you to the both of you. 😊
LOL this thread is about ELVIA
Tsel specifically asked about elvia saunils
Not about zones outside of elvia or different monster zones, if that was the case i would have answered much differently :)
Elvia realm only allows 5% of AP above the max to be added,
so if you are already at the AP cap the question becomes is it viable (worth it) to be spending silver on buffs to get only 5% of the buffs applied, I personally think there is No point spending the extra silver at Saunils.
If your gear is already way above the AP cap then it makes no odds to your silver costs as no buffs are needed, so yes in that instance you get a tiny increase in AP, but again it is pointless at saunils and i'll explain why :)
At Elvia saunils, you grind flags, a player at 810+ Total AP can very efficiently run a 2 flag grind.
You clear the 1st flag and move to the 2nd flag, you can clear the 2nd flag and get back to the 1st flag either just before or as it re-spawns in.
So lets say you have 1100 AP which makes you 287 over the cap, this has only applied a whopping 14.35 AP of it for all that extra AP.
You now have 827.35 Effective AP so you can kill a little faster and then end up waiting for the flag spawns, why?
because you could throw double the zones total AP at it and you would still not be able to do a 3 flag rotation as efficient as a 2 flag that has minimum travelling, you will never get back to the 1st flag before or as it re-spawns so the travelling is wasted time :)
Elvia still applies the same game rules as everywhere else with AP, so you're getting 5% of the ap past the cap, which is definitely still worth bringing buffs for. You should never bring something such as a perfume of courage as that's an outrageous amount of silver for so little gain (about 90m/hr just to run it), but you should definitely still run such things as corrupted frenzy draughts, bracing perfumes and cron meals even if you exceed the caps without them as the extra damage is practically free (a couple million silver per hour) and will pay itself off. Minus uber expensive buffs such as perfumes and the house buff there is no reason not to apply buffs when grinding any spot you exceed the cap in, it's throwing away practically free damage for no reason.
When you're talking about saving a few seconds here or there with mobs, that adds up to hundreds of millions/billions of silver over a large sample size, an amount that outweighs the cost spent on the buffs (so long as again, you're not using stupidly expensive buffs like courage perfumes or the house buff, which are the only two NOT worth running past cap imho). And I will say this again. Even at a 5% cap you will NEVER lose money adding ap buffs to your character past cap so long as you avoid the two buffs I previously mentioned, even getting 5% of the ap from the buff is worth it in every case with all non courage and house buffs no exceptions no questions asked. As a person who is nearly hardcap gear, I can promise you that it adds up over time and there's no reason to avoid them. Even in spots where you are standing still waiting for mobs to spawn, you can always kill the mobs faster. If you kill a pack in 20 seconds and wait 20 seconds you're spending 40 seconds doing it. If you kill a pack in 19.9 seconds and wait 20 seconds you're spending 39.9 seconds doing it. Eventually you get to a point where you kill the pack in 5 seconds and wait 20 seconds and are already onto the next pack while the guy refusing to use buffs is still waiting for a pack to spawn for 20 seconds, you're ahead of him by a LOT. And especially for later areas, more damage is always better because it's less chance for mobs to attack and kill you (mostly talking ash/tungrad here but it applies everywhere.) So you spend less money repairing your armor and thus make more because mobs aren't hitting you as often, and if you don't have infinite pots, you spend less pots healing too. I've been an advocate for running elixirs even when not at uber spots because of how much time you save. I spend about 20-30 million more silver an hour than someone who doesn't use them at gyfins. He makes 25k trash I make 28k trash. The 3k trash alone makes up for the cost, plus you now get more drops from mobs due to killing them faster, making everything past this worth even more. You should be as buffed as possible when grinding. Yes you spend more to go faster, but you also make more for going faster. 0.001% faster per kill over thousands of kills suddenly becomes many, many % faster when you consider sample size. How many hours would you need to spend to make a 100% gain when you're killing a mob every .02 seconds, even at 0.001%? When you are killing mobs so fast that you are spending more time waiting than you are killing you need to swap to more gear appropriate spots, not run less buffs.
TLDR is spending 1 less second every 10 seconds is a 10% increase in speed and shouldn't be treated lightly. Even if it's .5% it's a 5% increase. Always kill as fast as possible there's no excuse not to. It's always better.
If you're struggling to reach the caps for a monster zone I HIGHLY recommend running extra ap against monsters artifacts stacked with extra ap against monsters lightstones so that you can get billions of silver worth of damage and may even allow you to meet caps to spots you would otherwise not be able to. The goal to deal the maximum damage possible in bdo is to reach the cap with as much 'past cap' stats dumped in as possible. So you not only want to be at 1000 ap for a 1000 ap spot, but you also want to stack as much species damage (human, demihuman etc) as you can while hitting that cap. If you're 30 ap over the cap it's time to remove 30 ap and put on something that exceeds cap like demihuman or crit damage. But if you're overcapped even with all the things you could possibly equip that add 'past cap' stats you will notice a TREMENDOUS damage difference with species damage + overcapped ap. The more of both, the better. But past the cap the priority switches around a little, but more of either is always an incredible boost in speed even if it's not immediately visible. It's never wrong to add even more heat to the fire, efficiency will always be gained from doing so, unless you're using the perfumes of courage or house buff as mentioned above it's very difficult (if not actually impossible) to lose money with buffs, so go nuts!
anyways again you are talking about different zones not Elvia and not saunils
Saunils is not about speed you rely on flag re-spawns that spawn at a set amount of time and spawn the exact same amount of enemies,
you clear the flag and you move to a second, you clear that flag and get back to the 1st in time for it to re-spawn (when at a total AP of 810+)
you have killed X amount of enemies that the flags spawned, an amount that is ALWAYS the same.
You then over buff the character oooohhh wow can now kill the set spawned amount of mob 5 seconds faster,
you clear the 1st flag move to the second clear the second flag go back to the 1st flag after killing the EXACT same amount of spawned enemies from the the un-buffed 2 flags you did.....
oh wait, now you got too wait for 10 secs for the flag to spawn no point moving to a 3rd flag because the 1st flag will re-spawn before you get there, so no point in moving :)
So in the same amount of time, you have killed the same amount of enemies that was determined by the flags and re-spawn time :)
Unless you can efficiently throw in a 3rd flag the time standing around is wasted because there is nothing to kill whilst waiting for the spawns :)
I did 4hrs yesterday at saunils i grind there a lot as it's un-contested
at 815 max AP un-buffed
I walked away with 2.1 bil silver in trash loot alone, with CM sails it bumped it too 4.9 bil and i still have 35 despairs unsold worth another 700 mil
Bosses where spawning around every 20 mins'ish and where no trouble, so me personally wont be wasting buffs at Elvia Saunils to go beyond the AP cap :)
Too me standing around for 5-10 secs doing nothing just waiting for something to spawn and kill, all whilst the buff is still ticking down is inefficient, i could have just not used it got too the flag as it spawned continued grinding fluidly and still killed the exact same amount of set kills, speed of kill doesn't change the amount of mobs a flag spawns, or how fast it re-spawns :)
edit: on you mentioning you're near gear hard cap lol
well snap i am running tet godaye for weapons that i have enhanced myself, currently trying to scrape enough crons together to begin trying for some pen attempts, also not a newb being a 9000+ hr player :)
I'm running full pen blackstar weapons with debos as my next upgrade (Sadly), never enhanced a single piece of my gear minus a lucky tri god armor tap with free crons about a year ago, never bothered with the godyr system past duo (where the value kinda stops with it). You should be grinding elsewhere if you're standing around too long waiting for mobs to spawn, it's just griefing yourself at that point for naught. It's best to move on to giants/rhutums once you cross that threshold, you'll get more value out of your buffs too. Every grinding spot benefits from clear speed, even stationary ones such as Yzhair highlands, gyfins rhutums and dekhia ash, even moreso than movement spots because the only thing that changes money per hour at those spots is dps because you get more mobs spawned per hour and thus more loot.