Zainstaluj Steam
zaloguj się
|
język
简体中文 (chiński uproszczony)
繁體中文 (chiński tradycyjny)
日本語 (japoński)
한국어 (koreański)
ไทย (tajski)
български (bułgarski)
Čeština (czeski)
Dansk (duński)
Deutsch (niemiecki)
English (angielski)
Español – España (hiszpański)
Español – Latinoamérica (hiszpański latynoamerykański)
Ελληνικά (grecki)
Français (francuski)
Italiano (włoski)
Bahasa Indonesia (indonezyjski)
Magyar (węgierski)
Nederlands (niderlandzki)
Norsk (norweski)
Português (portugalski – Portugalia)
Português – Brasil (portugalski brazylijski)
Română (rumuński)
Русский (rosyjski)
Suomi (fiński)
Svenska (szwedzki)
Türkçe (turecki)
Tiếng Việt (wietnamski)
Українська (ukraiński)
Zgłoś problem z tłumaczeniem
Zasady dyskusji i wytyczne
Zgłoś ten post
Stretching definitions to whatever extent one finds suitable to calling it P2W just seems to make every other MMO out there "pay2win".
World of Warcraft sells tokens one can exchange for gold, player can use that gold to get best in slot with best corruptions on it straight from the auction house. WoW charges for base game, expansions, monthly sub, and is apparently P2W on top of that.
Elder Scrolls Online sells crowns, crowns can be exchanged for gold, gold can be exchanged for (last i heard) very good gear (pvp) sets. ESO charges for base game, expansions and DLC packs, and is apparently "P2W" on top of that.
FF14 has a cash shop and sells gil, inventory space, story skip potions as well as leveling potions, giving the player a straight shortcut to endgame and "advantages", it has some 600+ items on store, if i go look at it surely i can find more "advantage" purchases. FF14 charges for base game, expansions and demands monthly sub, it is still "P2W" on top of that (and that house market, run by RMT and bots).
Warframe sells platinum, premium currency, and allows skipping warframe build times (from 3 days to no time at all) with said platinum, buy enough of it and you can also buy the best Riven mods (and primes) available, player is getting "advantages", guess Warframe is "P2W".
In reality, non of those are really pay2win, you're not locked out of anything simply because someone chose to pay, you still have all the tools available to accomplish the exact same things everyone else can. Warframe charges nothing and is a good free2play.
I bought this game last year and kept putting it to the side because all i read of it was how hard it was for the poor free2play, and how horrible the company was with their pay2win, to the point that i saw people on reddit going "don't even bother if you don't have a couple thousand disposable". Having played the game, all of it rings fake, false, a lie, and i should have started earlier.
I've not bought a tent, pet, maids, costumes, nothing, instead im showered with free things left and right, my pets on agile mode sweep everything up even in places like polly where you kill the pack with a single skill, my storage is like triple what i need right now, i have bought weight by simply using loyalty, have 105 inventory slots just from questing, i have a T2 blue gear galleass generating real sums of silver and crow coin with bartering whenever i want it to, i have manos accs to make other lifeskills very worthwhile, and i generated over 600 million silver on the first 30 minutes of loggin on today simply because the 7 dark rifts i had available all decided to reward tungrads and ogres.
BDO allows everyone playing on a solid footing. It has a cash shop like most (all? even new world BETA already has it) other MMOs.
Claiming actual advantages as pay2win is to be expected, just saying I'm stretching definitions doesn't make it so.
WoW has faced criticism for selling tokens and thus enabling RMT for years, it's often called out as P2W.
I've not personally played ESO, so I can only respond to what you've written here, if it's as you say, yes, that's P2W, you can buy an in game advantage with real money.
SE do not directly sell gil, and you cannot buy any token type thing from the cash shop, in fact the cash shop is full of cosmetics and mounts. You can buy retainers (I assume you mean this when you say inventory space) and yes, that can indeed be considered P2W, even if it's nowhere near as egregious as advantages found here. Levelling potions do not give you end game gear, and don't give you max level, despite that, they have also been criticised.
FFXIVs RMT can enable P2W, but it isn't technically SE running that, and the crafted gear you get is often not ideal. You cannot buy BiS gear with gil.
Yes, that's also P2W, you're using real money to gain advantages over other players, Warframe is often given a pass because of it's player trading system, but someone has to pony up real cash somewhere along the lines.
I'm not saying, and I haven't claimed you should not play the game, or you have to sink thousands into the game, I've been saying someone who /does/ sink thousands into the game will gain an advantage over you.
If you look at my profile, I still play BDO, I still like the game, I just accept that it has P2W elements. For disclosure, I've spent around $300 on BDO in the three years I've been playing, That's less than the $540 I spent in FF subscriptions over the same period.
Like I've said, you indeed do not need to buy any of these, but you gain an advantage when you do. You can buy your way to a full set to T4 pets in minutes, to get that for free could take years of freebies, a P2W tent not only gives you cheap repairs and convenient potions, it also gives you access to villa buffs anywhere, that's a big advantage for combat, but especially for lifeskilling. And yes, you can get good RNG on rifts, and get 600 million without spending a penny, someone who logged in for 5 minutes and sold outfits on the store just got over a billion.
I'm not saying the game isn't playable, I'm not saying you must spend, I'm saying the systems exist to incentivise monetisation by offering in game advantages for real money, I'm saying that's P2W. I'm not saying the game is bad because of that, that is up to the player to decide for themselves, I'm saying those systems exist and to call them anything but P2W is fooling yourself.
[edit]
Just addressing your edit
That's a strawman bruh.
Let's look at it objectively: In this game, you could drop 10.000 and potentially get some value out of it. Saving you a month or two. Granting you a high level weapon or a few pieces of gear (Which, btw, you can get too if you put in the time).
Ask yourself first: Who would do this? 99% of the playerbase wouldn't as it's simply not worth it. It's easy enough to get. Everyone would rather play the game.
Then ask yourself the following: Does what this 1% of the playerbase hurt you in some way shape or form? Then games as a whole aren't for you, period. Let's be honest there, you let your brain dictate everything based on what this elusive 1% does? Are you this scared?
Absolutely no one drops 10.000 into a game just to grieve other people. Unless you're the son of a rich oil baron. Not happening. So for those who do say it's P2W: Come back when P2W is fully to the detriment of other players (ergo, you).
In this game it is obvious, a whale can buy UNLIMITED amount of costumes turn them into crons and theoretically spam pens to sell for profit. The additional aid like artisans which is also unlimited adds to that value. There is a video of Estimate talking about this, he was like 700gs 2 years ago that was before Star's End (even that time it is difficult to do this).
Also the added fact that whales can hire someone to grind for them. I'm sure a lot of streamers have been caught doing this. Let's just say it is a plus to look geared with lots of silver to entice viewership. I'm not adding the costumes players can sell every week which will increase in value soon. (increase p2w baby).
I stop spending because I hated how aggressive their monetization tactics they deployed. The thing players needs to ask "does p2w affect you?" For me I been f2p for more than 3 years now, decently geared and I enjoyed my progression. I got grief by a whale once in the 4 years I played. Unless you are in one of those siege guilds "1%" and you are trying hard to be relevant outside repairing and manning weapons Or hardcore competitive wants to be number 1... it shouldn't.
The game for me is fun even as F2P (I might break my habit because I'm running out of value packs).
Btw i don't understand the rationale of free stuff makes it less P2W. Whales get the free stuff too.
Also the rationale of buying stuff makes it "valuable" to the buyer makes them think they are winning because of the "value" they gets from the purchase. So P2W is essentially anything players buy that has inherent value. This weird "p2c" sounds like some cheap marketing that players and more likely GAME developers trying to feed as a social norm.
Like I said, the player trading system in Warframe seems to get it a free pass by the community because of the player trading system, but that platinum has to be purchased with cash by someone, you can't even use the free platinum you get to player trade, it's layers of abstraction. It's still nowhere near as much as BDOs P2W though, and gained advantages are less of a community concern because the game is primarily a PvE game, the advantages gained by one person spending money tend to help the squad (with faster clears, or longer survivals, etc) the PvP was (and probably still is) as good as dead.
You contradict yourself. You say it's not P2W, but then say it's P2W for a tiny amount of people that sink large sums into the game. Make your mind up.
Also, 1% is lowballing, you're pulling fake numbers trying to back up your bizarre assertion. It's actually probably closer to the 80/20 rule, where the top 20% of spenders generate 80% of the revenue.
You can continue to try and disregard the P2W aspects as much as you like, they're there, that's why the game gets called P2W. You do not need to be directly killed by a P2W player for P2W to exist, you're creating a fallacy.
This is more a continuation of a discussion than anything else, please don't feel like I'm saying you're wrong, or anything of that sort.
Yes, that's very much P2W, however much people would like to brush it off as 'too expensive' then somehow make a leap of logic and declare it not P2W because they feel the majority wont spend it.
Paying for someone to grind for you isn't technically a P2W issue in the same sense, as it's not sold by PA in the cash shop, but it does indeed happen, You risk a ban if caught, but I cannot say if that's likely or not.
It is indeed very possible to never spend a thing in this game, that's cool, but that doesn't mean the systems that allow others to exchange real money for in game advantages don't exist. Even if you feel it doesn't directly affect you (and to many, it doesn't really) doesn't negate that it's P2W. Like you've said here, if you're aiming to be competitive, spending money is pretty much unavoidable.
I also have fun in the game, I've played for thousands of hours, and I don't regret spending what I have on it, as I've said in a previous post, I've spent less on this game over three years than I did in mandatory subscriptions for FFXIV.
Exactly!
While some of it will come down to a semantic argument, I think a reasonable definition of P2W is gaining an ingame advantage with real money, and P2C is a weird beast, it's marketing for the company, done by the consumer.
The idea of costs makes it less p2w or difficult to p2w is absurd. If I make $30 dollars per hour why would I grind in a game where I make anything less than that because of said "pearl items to marketplace" value. Anyone with a high paying job and wants to be "competitive" in an MMO will try to increase their per hour rates by spending huge amount of money to get to certain levels of gear.
I understand that some people p2w because time devoted in game is best used in a job or somewhere else. That is why I added the rationale of someone even going to great lengths of hiring a pilot in game. Although it is not directly tied to Pearl Shop, it shows relationships between per hour rates, cheap alternatives than pearl shops and it's correlation between being "competitive" in this game. Some streamers got caught doing this, it makes sense to pay for progression to keep being relevant and let's just say 3rd party is significantly cheaper than the alternative.
Again I have to add besides the outrageous p2w aggressive marketing. The game is FUN. For players who don't compare ePen (bdo related puns) and just enjoy the grind towards their progression.
Also I have nothing against whales that spend huge deal of money in game. As long as they are not scamming some kids trying to sell views. Because of them I get to sniped a couple of Value packs that helps me with my free to play route.
Point me to one MMO that doesn't have "P2W". Even Runescape sells currency.
Anoter paragraph that doesn't nearly align with what people spout about this game, where you "can't play without paying large sums", youtubers themselves put it on videos (i.e KiraTV).
You went on a rant where p2w this that and the next, then state you've been F2P for 3 years and...are still playing? we are all either masoquists or the game is pretty doable with 0 added expenses.
Most of what we are getting, are pearl items also touted as "p2w". As an example, the luxury furniture sets, that include beds that regen +3 energy per 3 mn (theres a free one but thats only after 1000 hours play). The so called whales have no use for it as they surely already own all of it, they're whales yea? same for most other completely free items.
Pets? everyone, even in this thread, state that whales can just buy a hundred pets and breed them, ok great, we got up to 9 free ones that do the same job (you can only have 5 out anyway), that whale bought 100, they have no use for it. Slots? weight? going by what steam/reddit/yt etc say, the whale has inventory maxed out and more weight than my galeass, its F2P that are going to benefit from 100+ inventory for free, extra weight, or the free velia storage, heidel storage etc.
This slew of free items then, is only getting everyone on a solid footing, no matter the investment.
The two monetization options for MMOs are forcing the money out of the player like FFXIV does, or having cash shops with at least some incentive to spend, better yet, you can have both, like FFXIV does, charge me money just to login and then all the extra for a plethora of crap in the cash shop. I quit FFXIV only couple months in exactly because of money grubbing, i was asked to pay for something i often wouldn't even use (like a "cheap" 12 month plan), and at 15$ (12, 13?) monthly id be paying 150+/y when sometimes id only be playin on the weekend.
if thats your ideal financial plan, they you should go ahead and try it instead. But then you've already complained about RMT, and that game is run by RMT almost as much as WoW is.
BDO asked me for 10$, there are downsides, like the upgrade/enhancing/rng system that i will never touch (even on galleass i used more stones just to get 100% every tier, +10 blue alone was like 230) but i was surprised how feature full the game is, the lifeskilling is terrific, and i think the only real missing player-retaining feature BDO needs is better PVE.
There is hardly any "P2W" in this game (ya its P2Convenience) because the endgoal is generating silver, and a 0 investment player has access to the very best tools to do it, from loggia and manos lifeskill gear and tools, to whatever boat they want and everything else. Can the "whales" get silver faster? yes, but it hardly changes anything. In fact, it changes so little that devs are about to increase the $/silver exchange ratio to try incentivize a few more people actually do it, because nobody is doing it, silver comes easy.
With Fairys, how is it an advantage to spend hundreds of Currency not even to get the best fairy, with someone who didn't spend money far surpassing your fairy. Fairys can only be obtained through the main quest and Kamsylvania quest, so you still have to spend a long time just to get them. You can also exchange petals for honey, if you didn't know, and honey is only 2 million. I roled an almost perfect fairy using silver honey, and lailas petals. Paying money doesn't give you the ability to get a fairy right away. You clearly define pay to win as something that has a pearl shop equivalent, such as Ornettes Honey, or orbs, when you need neither of those to get a great fairy.
Pay to win is when you can pay money to get a specific item or service that overpowers you against regular players who don't. None of the items in the Pearl shop give said power, and infact on a silver to hour- salary earned per hour, the one who pays money for these things is doing so at a loss of functional currency, which is unequivical to games such as World of war craft, when you are actually better working and then using money on the game than actually playing it. However, you still can't get the best items from doing this just this, so even if World of Warcraft has ALOT( and I mean A LOT) of pay to win elements, at the end of it, you can't get every item just by injecting money into the game And no. If you spend 100 and get a sub par fairy, you have wasted 100 dollars.
The defenition of pay to win is 'Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.'
1. Re roling a Fairy using silver honey and petals(Which you will a mass HUNDREDS of, just playing the game, and honey too) is cheaper and actually quicker. Plus all the free orbs you get. All the pearl shop items don't make any thing quicker, or allow you to buy a good Fairy in 6 clicks
Referance, before I did my Free to play Fairy, I used up all my free orbs and bought a lot too to no Avail because I had forgotten about the petal trade in, and the levels e.t.c I ended up wasting good money on a Fairy that I set free. I then did more reasearch and remebered these things, so I re roled using all my petals at the time, and bought Silver honey(Never bought Ornettes at any point, but they are also free sometimes, even in the Loyalty shop.) and got the afformentioned good tier Fairy after 2 roles, then upgraded e.t.c. When I bought orbs, I was actually worse off than when I didn't. This is not just the case with me, but with most people I have talked to about this.
2. Any tent, free or Paid, really makes no difference to Money and XP per hour.
Referance, I used to HEAVILY PVE, and the only time A tent would have been usefull would be when repairing gear. However, at this time I didn't do the suggested quest, and instead carried 2 sets of armour, which were obtained through playing the game. If you are still going after 1 gear set has broken, you would need to go to a city anyway. Repair Cost using Free tent versus Paid tent? Not worth the 40 Dollars you spent. Silver has no value out side of the game, so its not like you can Exchange it against Terms of Service, like is the case in RuneScape.
I will remind you again
Silver has NO VALUE out of the game, Money does. Spending 40 dollars just to save a few million is stupid. As someone who uses their whenever I can, and has Anvils stacked in the market place, you use it far less than you would think. I don't need to keep buying an anvil each day because after PVE, I just map out to the nearest City, repair, sell e.t.c
Also the free tent is not loosing out. I used to use it and the extra silver I spent on the shops and repairs are worth it. I usually throw away about 1-2 million silver anyway, so all it does is keep me going. With potions, I just stack like 500 in the Warehouse and use 1 Maid whenever I need to, which is for free in 8 days time for attendance rewards, earlier for new player rewards, and this is not including season rewards. In 3 days time, you get a high chance of getting an insane ammount of Artisans memories, on day 12 you get advice of Valks, 13 days, you will recieve 50-100 caphras, so 150 million for free. Day 15, cat wiskers FOR FREE, day 14 crystals worth around 40-100 million Day 18, 50-100 memory fragments, so another 150 million,day 19 5 Shakatu seals, which would bring the total to 10, equivalent of 300 million and higher, Day 20 even more artisans memory, Days 21 one of the best looking outfits ever released FOR FREE. LOOK at the special tab in attendance rewards, you literally get around. These Special rewards are far surpassing 10 thousand Pearls, which if you bought all of these items, you would have wasted 100 dollars on nothing, and that is not counting the most of the items, as they can't be bought. They do this all the time, idiot. At 21 days, you will have at least 800- 2billion silver from just logging in ON THE SPECIAL ONES ALONE. New players, this total will be more like 2 or more billion, and with Loyalty rewards it bring the total for Non new players to 1.8billion- 3 billion silver this month. This is not including the price of crons, selling the Corsair materials, selling petals and potions and Making Caphras stones.
What you seem to misunderstand is that silver is worthless outside of this game. If you CAN pay 100 dollars and not even have a Guarantee at even a moderately good fairy, you have spent 100 dollars on nothing. That is the equivalent of Spending half of the price of an I9 processor just to achieve nothing. That is 200 breads you wasted trying to get that fairy, and what makes it even better is that any regular player will most likely have a better fairy than you. If this game was pay to win, then it would be a case that you are guaranteed the best fairy by paying money, i.e. Buying a max fairy with the best skills, and you can't even do that if you wanted to pay thousands. There was one player who spent like 800 euros re roling their Fairy and had worse skills than mine. All my Guild members have great fairys and they haven't spent money on orbs.
I upgraded the tier of my fairy using Silver Honey, then leveled Her up to max level using honey, and got Fairys tears 3, Miraculous Cheer 3, Feathery steps and Gift. Bear in mind, the previous level I had Miraculous well 4 and Fairys tear 2. I re roled twice mabye using petals. I can re role again IF I WANTED TO, but I don't see any reason to.
I am not stupid. If something was released that is truely pay to win, I will tell you. Infact I will add to this post with the 'Pay to win' item at the top in bold. Ill even make a post saying that the game is pay to win if that is the case. It still does not ignore the fact that this game is NOT pay to win and I am unbiased in how I view things. Just like how, although I seveerly dislike World of Warcraft, yet I can't deny that there are great items that you can't buy, and must get them as drops.
This is badly formatted.
You
You're strawmanning, he never claimed you can't play without paying large sums, quite the opposite. You're well into the realm of bad faith arguments here
Another cherry pick here, you're the first to bring up furniture, and most whales don't use beds for energy, they use potions and villa buffs, you can buy potions with silver from selling, or direct from the cash store (cash store pots are better also) and the P2W tent gives you easy access to villa buffs, the free tent does not.
We'll ignore the fairy orbs, horse breed and skill resets, selling and melting costumes, pets, etc
9 free pets is good, it gives everyone a full compliment of pets to loot, however a P2Wer can buy a full compliment of T4 pets, that's far more efficient on grinding, more silver for your grinding time, that's the advantage you're hell bent on ignoring. You don't seem to fully understand the game systems, or you're being wilfully ignorant of them.
Not true, someone who pays more, progresses more. Anything purchased is on top of all the freebies.
FFXIVs cash shop has cosmetics and mounts, you can't buy better looting, you can't sell purchased items for gill to get BiS gear, you can't buy a tent that gives you access to strong buffs and massive convenience. The closest thing FFXIV has to anything like BDO is retainers, that allows you to list more things on the market, and hold on to more materials (if you're a crafter, they're super useful) and level and story skip potions. Sure, you're able to call that P2W, no one has claimed otherwise, but it pails in comparison to advantages attained in BDO via cash shop purchases.
Guess what, you can buy costumes to alleviate enhancing downsides, that's an element we are calling P2W
It's like you think saying BDO has P2W elements makes it a bad game? correct me if i'm wrong here, but he's not saying that, nor am I, we just acknowledge that P2W exists.
You can buy things to increase you rate of getting silver, that's paying to win by your own definition of the game there. Paying for convenience is trying to put a nicer sounding spin on P2W, creating hurdles to sell you solutions is not amicable.
[quote[and a 0 investment player has access to the very best tools to do it, [/quote]
No, they don't. For maximum silver gain, you need T4 pets, kamasylve buff, loot scrolls, pots, maids, weight, space and to be able to defend your spot, paying real money gives you advantages in all those facets.
[quote[from loggia and manos lifeskill gear and tools[/quote] Until you need to repair your tool, a Free players most efficient way of gathering is using disposable magic tools, because you need a tent to repair manos and loggia tools, guess what, for a sweet $50, PAs got you covered.
Here you admit P2W, but say it doesn't make a difference, you're kidding yourself. A whale can make a considerable amount more silver than a free player. Your claim that it 'changes so little' is baseless.
Agreed. The Irony of this coversation is that these players claim this game to be pay to win, but will pitchfork anyone calling Final Fantasy, World of Warcraft, Elderscrolls online e.t.c. pay to win. It is not like we are zombies defending the game we play. We have given Unbiased factual evidence to the claim. If there is anything that is Pay to win, I will say it is. I am not Biased. Also I wouldn't even say it is pay for convineance, considering there is nothing convenient about spending 100 dollars re roling a fairy for example. The tent? Not worth 40 dollars, or even 30 on sale. At that rate, those who buy it value saving a few million a week, over 40 dollars that can be used on anything, which in turn means that a few million a week is valued at over 5 plus hours of work, even though a few million is easily obtainable in a short space of time. There is a rediculous ammount of items that people throw away( I used to be this bad) such as spirit fragments, that you get A lot of. Just saving those fragments already has payed for a week of tent shop time.
There is also an incredulous ammount, if not the majority of this player base, that is free to play.
Also, paying money on this game is not a shameful act, just don't expect you to gain anything.
And someone that does buy storage doesn't need to grind CP as hard to have a node empire, that's the advantage
The cash shop wines are far superior to the in game ones, the orbs allow you to reroll skills instead of the whole fairy, as you say, it can take a long time to get them, so paying for rerolling skills is an advantage over trying for more fairies. What I'm claiming is P2W is using real money to gain an ingame advantage over someone who doesn't pay, ornette's honey and orbs both fit that, as they allow you to bypass layers of RNG that a free player cannot.
If you and me both got a fairy at the same time, and I spent money on mine, my fairy is far more likely to be god roll faster than yours, Yes, there's a small chance you could win the RNG lottery several times in a row to get a god roll radiant fairy faster than me, but it's far more likely I'd win that 'race'
That's just not true, a P2W tent allows you to repair without visiting towns, and even larger advantages for lifeskilling, access to the villa buffs allow to you stay on rotation for longer, along with the easy access to repairs (that are half the price of regular repairs btw)
Someone who's invested money into the game doesn't need 2 sets of armours, because they got the tent. You're underplaying how a tent can allow you to stay on rotation for far longer than a free to play player. Saying it's not worth $40 is your own value assessment, it doesn't mean it's not P2W
You time DOES have real world value, and paying money gives more efficiency. Again, you're personal value assessment doesn't invalidate the P2W status of the tent. The P2W tent has no upkeep, that's even easier than stocking up on anvils!. Which of the following do you think will earn more silver, repairing at a P2W tent, or mapping out to town?
It's hands down inferior to the cash shop tent
The cash shop tent doesn't have that upkeep.
Using that maid, along with the other maids purchased to buss back trash loot earns more silver, saves you time, and keeps you on rotation. Buying potions from the cash shop tent is the same cost as the shops, the free tent is more expensive.
Everyone gets those, someone who pays gets even more. Calling me an idiot is pretty low, if you have to resort to ad hominem, you've already lost
Nope, You're resorting to strawman arguments
I stated in an earlier post that fairies are one armed bandits, effective gambling, that's not any better, and someone that spends $100 on a fairy is going to have a better fairy faster than a free to play player almost all of the time.
Your value assertions do not invalidate that it's P2W, they just reinforce how expensive it can get. And no, a free player will not 'most likely' have a better fairy.
Yeah, that's indeed possible, it's easier to spend money to reroll those skills one by one though over rearing another fairy, it's the more nefarious P2W element. While I can't talk for your guildies, I have my doubts as the the veracity of your claims.
Ornette's honey uses less honey to tier up, and orbs allow you to reroll individual skills instead of the whole fairy, what you have there is an okay fairy, it is not even close to a god roll. I'm not trying to shame or anything, I'm just saying money makes for an easier godroll.
I never said you were, only you've stooped to personal insults so far
You are not the sole arbiter of what is and isn't P2W, I don't trust your judgement for that
Hate to break it to you, it is P2W, you just wont face it because you personally don't interact with the P2W elements.
Uh-huh
Strawmannig again, no one has 'pitchforked' here
You're not been using factual evidence at all, you've mostly been relying on asserting things without basis
You are biased
Your value assessments do not invalidate the P2W status of the items. Just becuase YOU don't use these items doesn't mean their advantages are not real
As I said earlier, the chances are it's a 20/80 split, the top 20% of players generate 80 % of the revenue
No one in this thread has claimed this. This is another strawman
What is pay to win about this. Tell me the though process behind your argument. Claiming Pay to win without any functional evidence is not valid. Like I have said MANY times before, I have tested everything out. I am heavily active, not just some new player who doesn't know as much about the way the game functions. I am not claiming to be the best player. This game has a mathematics element to it, so logically you weigh everything along side it. Grinding for 9 hours straight will 100 make you burnt out, leaving you doing much less in the following days. Anyway, it doesn't take long after 2 or so hours to map to a city, then ride back. What 10 minuites at the maximum.
Also, As I said with the post, saving the seemably useless items help pay for the shop anyway. These seemably useless items are things that you get while doing whatever you are doing, PVE for example, and pay for it. Why spend 5 hours -6-7 hours of work time when you can just save said items( Which don't weigh alot) when you are playing the game, and pay for it whilst not sacrificing anything. Logically, if you spend 5-6-7 hours working to buy the tent, that money is wasted, as the free equivalent has the same use, and the million silver to repair can also be payed for with said useless items.
Here is a few formulaes I have written
T(50 euros) / W (Salary per hour)
= H(Hours per tent rounded UP to nearest whole number)
Silver per hour Formulae at 'I need to use a tent to be functional' PEARL SHOP plus villa
S(Silver Per hour) - P(Potion) - Repair - Villa
= Total silver per hour -50 euros 1 time(Not constant)
Silver per Hour Formulae at 'Free to win I need to be functional' with free buffs
S(Silver per hour)- (2xP(Potion)) -(10x Repair) + U(Usless items )
=Total silver per hour +50 euros free money
Putting in values for say Rhonaros
Pearl per 1 hour loot scroll and villa
200 million- 200,000 [100 potions e.g.]-100,000- 1,750,000(AVG Villa)
=200 million -2.05 million
=197.95million per hour - 50 euros(1 time)
Total profit per week at 1hr per day
1.38565 billion
Free per 1 hour loot scroll
200 million -400,000-1million +4.6 million(Avg useless)
=200 million +3.2 million
=203.2 million
4.6 million useless per hour can be used to pay for Anvil and shop
=Anvil each day(5.6 million)+(14 million weekly)
Per week at 1 hour NO MAID
=1.4234 Billion- 2 million
1.4234 billion -39.2 million[Anvil each day)-14million
1.4234 billion - 53.2 Million
1,368,200,000 billion + 50 euro free(Singular)
=17,450,000 million- 50 euros Pearl tent profit
What about with 1 maid instead of buying potions on Free tent, what a logical person does if they use a free tent
200 million-200,000-1 million + 4.6 million
=203.4million
=1,423,800,000 per week
-39.2 million
=1384600000
=1,385,650,000- 1,384/600,000
=1050000 Pearl Tent Profit
Pearl Shop Positives
10,5 million profit over regular tent
Pearl shop tent Negatives
Costs 50 euros
Time valued?
7 hours at 8 euros an hour
saves 10,5 million. Per week time valued at =
Silver extra per 1 hour =1.5 million extra per hour
7 hours of work per week = 10.5million silver weekly
42 million extra a month
Per year=547.5million
Per hour you equate your time worth as 187,500 silver
Per year you equate your time worth as 68.2125 million at one hour a day PVE everyday
And if you PVE for 10 hours a day, you value your time at 682.125 million a year
( 2-3-4 x this silver is given free per month, not including coupon codes =24-26-28x this amount a year)
Really, you should believe in yourself more if you value your time at this
2 extra breads a week= 1 euro
8 extra breads per month= 4 euros
96 extra breads a year= 48 euros
Pay to win? More like pay to be more hungry. Ive seen New players make more money than you do per hour of your evaluated time. Even if you were on 16 euros an hour, you are still 375,000 valued silver per hour, which is less that an underactive guild member makes
Although you are at an area that makes 200million an hour, you value your time working at the afformentioned ammounts because YOU had to pay 50 euros to enable you to do that, and the free to play player didn't
You will say that this is an 'Advantage' because yes you do earn 187,500 silver extra an hour. But spending 50 euros just to have that is disadvantaging you outside of the game.
That is not pay to win, that is pay to loose. Like I keep saying, that is less breads on your table. You could have had plentiful food on the table, but you just had to go and spend 50 euros on a tent feeling like you were winning by doing so.
Scenario
Dad: Are ya winning son?
Son: Just spent 50 euros on a tent, but don't worry, I value my time at 187,500 silver extra per hour
Dad: You would be better off studying a useless course at College if you value your time that low
In all seriousness, I am not shaming anyone who has bought the tent. There really isn't a lot of in depth calculations anyone has done so I don't blame anyone for doing so. I nearly bought it myself, but eventually got the Free tent