Установить Steam
войти
|
язык
简体中文 (упрощенный китайский)
繁體中文 (традиционный китайский)
日本語 (японский)
한국어 (корейский)
ไทย (тайский)
Български (болгарский)
Čeština (чешский)
Dansk (датский)
Deutsch (немецкий)
English (английский)
Español - España (испанский)
Español - Latinoamérica (латиноам. испанский)
Ελληνικά (греческий)
Français (французский)
Italiano (итальянский)
Bahasa Indonesia (индонезийский)
Magyar (венгерский)
Nederlands (нидерландский)
Norsk (норвежский)
Polski (польский)
Português (португальский)
Português-Brasil (бразильский португальский)
Română (румынский)
Suomi (финский)
Svenska (шведский)
Türkçe (турецкий)
Tiếng Việt (вьетнамский)
Українська (украинский)
Сообщить о проблеме с переводом
Правила обсуждений
Пожаловаться
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOrMZ6CwpAg&index=1&list=PL1sFc3mXLe7sde22Cwfo5zehYVMVLvDyx
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujj6uw5-q4Y&index=2&list=PL1sFc3mXLe7sde22Cwfo5zehYVMVLvDyx
- inventory space: afk fish over night with 160+ inventory slots and make a ton of silver.
- weightlimit: you srsly think that those 200lt you can buy from the loyalties are enough? guess you havent been to pila ku lately mate.
- investment banks: you can make up to 200M just from one investment bank and there are 4 which are pretty lucrative.
- pets : mob density in this game is too high and picking up every single mobs loot is 1. a chore. good luck lvling up at a steady pace while picking up every single item from the huge groups.
oh yeah you can breed pets too..... you pay 20 bucks to get 2 pets and then exchange them to get one.
-horse breed and death resets: its a must. if you want to get a higher tier horse. lvling up 2 t7 is a chore. a higher tier horse means you can travel the world much faster and visit world bosses way faster than someone with a t7.
- horse skill change coupon: ridiculous. you literally build failstacks on a horse to get the skills you need. ( instant acc, drift, sprint ) otherwise your horse is useless.
oh yeah dont forget to bring sacrifice to the RNG gods....
oh yeah also forget about getting good stuff on the market place because the payout for your effort is not worth it.
I play the game, that doesn't mean I don't recognize paid advantages and stating that they exist rather than saying it doesn't exist. Like so many others try to do.
in other words. op tries to put a wall on the eyes of new players by being ignorat.
no avoiding the question and being ignorant yourself, please present this alternative better game.
if there is a better game out there with less 'pay to win' it should not be that hard to find surely? if it exists i'm not pulling the wall(wool?) over ppls eyes i'm giving you the chance to present this much better alternative game.
take as long as you want i can wait.
Guild Wars 2. i don't think it is a better game (hate the combat), but it has a better business model (and certain designs to accomodate such a business model). You can straight up buy gold and thus gear, but the pvp is equalized mostly and the even the parts that are not, the gear gap is so small that there is not much if any advantage. Further that gear is gotten by a non paying player fairly quickly (unless it is a legendary item which has no better stats than what you can get much more quickly). Level caps mean that xp boost aren't some premanent advantage. Stuff can be done fairly quickly, and the things that can't are mainly for status and prestige rather than gains in power.
This is also an example of how game design can change what is and is not pay 2 win. For example, being able to buy a horse that is no better than what is gotten in game (just looks cooler) is not pay 2 win if you can't sell it, while being able to buy the same horse and then post it on the market can be is the in game currency is the main bottle neck for progression.
Further just because other do not exist (there are very few b2p MMOs) doesn't mean that we shouldn't push for better business models. I mean there are numerous f2p games that have no P2W yet make far more money than this game.
I haven't tried guild wars 2, it looked pretty good but i didn't like the idea of the game, the only game i know of that is like bdo is tera, non-target based combat, but that mmo is equally if not more so p2w.
so if you want to play bdo, firstly there isn't a viable similar alternative and those that exist aren't better games, aren't similar games or have worst p2w cash shops.
so when the option is to either play bdo, or not play the game, i mean what sort of choice is that? there is no real choice, your either interested in bdo and willing to put up with the cash shop or your not and you don't play the game or you wait for some magical time in the future when ppl can run mmos from hopes and dreams alone.
i can't say i've heard much about gw2 since it released, my main focus is on wow usually, but i can't say i've heard much about the game, its content updates or anything, news about that game is pretty non existent on the sites i visit to me that says the game isn't doing so well if i'm not hearing about an mmo at all for years then its not doing a good job of selling itself..
the truth is if there was a bdo clone alternative with no p2w cash shop i would be all over it, since that doesn't exist ill just be content with the current game, not get worked up over ppl funding the future development of this game and be happy with my snails pace of progress.
They could sustain it. People thought that sub MMOs were unsasustainable yet FFXIV ARR somehow does it even after a horrid launch. You just have to make a good quality product which takes time and effort and doesn't give immediately gains.
It is important that if we want more of these style of game that we point out that the issues are with the business models (and designs to feed into that business model) rather than the overall design of the game. Shouting that there is no p2w, no payed for advantages, or that it doesn't matter doesn't help with any of that.
because there is no pay to win, for numerous reasons.
you can only sell a limited number of pearl items per week.
you can only sell those items for a fixed price
the conversion rate is crap
i did the math earlier, a pen liverto is 2.5billion silver, a value pack is 10 million silver. you need to sell 250 $15 value packs, to buy a pen liverto, at 5 sales a week it'll take you 50 weeks.
how the ♥♥♥♥ is that pay to win, even remotely realistic its not. thats just ONE ITEM trying to buy a full set of pen gear or even Tet gear is practically impossible. you can't inject that much cash into the game in a small time frame.
its not realistically feasible to pay to win at this game. its that simple, if you want the best gear, you have to grind grind grind and play the rng until you get it, or grind silver in game until you can afford it. you aren't going to be able to sell enough cash shop items to fly to the top, its just not realistically possible. its not worth the conversion rate.
$15 for 10million silver, my returning reward tomorrow is a 100g bar, for just logging in to the game tomorrow i get given enough silver to buy a value pack without doing anything. how is this pay to win if they are giving away enough silver through rewards to buy 30 day value packs. its just non sense.
who can realistically drop 3-4 grand into a b2p mmo for one BiS item, its simply not ... realistic.. at all.
Ok, so how is being able to reset death counts, breeding counts and skills (until you get ideal) ones not a direct advantage over another that is not paying for such? The person cannot consistently get as good of horses to sell, thus cannot make as much money thus is losing compared to the one paying for all those things.
A fisher, fishing at a hotspot with only 55 slots compared to a fisher in the same hotspot with 192 slots will make less than the one with 192 slots due to needing to leave more often and lose time fishing. Thus the one not paying is losing to the one that is.
How is being able to make use of investment banking because you spammed cash shop furniture and thus get free income while also grinding, farming, gathering, cooking, etc not an advantage? I mean there are two spots of losing there. Those sharing the house have no chance to be first ranked without paying and those without a rank 1 house cannot get the free income, thus they are losing out to the income with everything else being the same.
Since everything to due with gear progression is tied to silver, those making more are winning compared to those making less. That is not even touching how much silver they save with AMs compared to those that don't use them. If silver was not such a vital item for progression I would 100% agree that there is no pay 2 win.
MMOs do not have an end, thus there is no final win, thus it is all about advantage, otherwise there is no MMO out there that is pay 2 win, even those with better gear in the real money stores.
should we make it so that you can only log into an mmo for 4 hours a day, so everyone plays the exact same amount of hours. and gets to make the exact same amount of progress.
it doesn't matter what other ppl are doing, that doesn't affect your character. what matters is what you are doing.
this is the problem ppl focus too much on what other ppl are doing and not enough on what they could or should be doing.
can you progress without touching the cash shop, yes you can. the only real deciding factor here is time, when you don't pay a subscription, time is not a factor. there is no clock counting down on your play time, you have until the game is shuttered to reach the 'end'.
there are ppl at all stages of progression. i don't see why you have to have access to everything, i don't use an investment node, is it stopping me from progressing, no.
you do not need to buy anything from the cash shop to progress in this game, that is what i'm trying to point out. there are items that make life much easier, but you do not hit a wall because you don't have X cash shop item.
all it means is you have to grind more and make sure you log in and sponge all the rewards and events.
at the end of the day this is like toddlers fight over toys, WHY DOES HE GET THE DUMP TRUCK!. the whining is so childish its beyond the point where its funny any more.
if you think there is a better similar less pay to win mmo than bdo, feel free to go play that. if it existed i would be playing it. because it doesn't i'm content with what is available. they give away so many items that i don't mind putting money occasionally into the cash shop, the stuff they give away is extremely helpful most of the time. so i don't mind repaying the favour every so often with a pet purchase or something else. if it keeps the game going then thats a good thing.
with your horse thing, it doesn't matter because there are no shortage of wild horses, you can always go off into the wild and tame a horse. and you can keep doing that until you run out of stable room patients. you don't need to buy anything from the cash shop to play the horse taming game. you might have to invest contribution into stables if you breeding horses, but nothing stops you from going off into the world and taming as many horses as you want.
Time put into the game should be the only thing that matters. Once you throw money into the picture, 2 people playing the same amount suddenly are getting different returns on effort. It takes the emphasis off the game and places it firmly in the money. Good well made products make money without such tactics.
Also in this game if you are in a high level guild, it very well can effect your character. I had to leave a competitive guild since I wasn't willing to put the money into the game for AMs, worker lodging, horse resets so I could up my income enough to afford the enhancing chances to get the gear required for the guild or the horse requirements. The fact that people could pay to do this easily directly effected me as without the paying aspect, the requirements for that guild would not have been so high and I would probably still be in it.
This is a competitive game (though many can ignore it), thus it is inherent that you compare yourself to others as that is part of competition.
Again this just points to just because it doesn't effect you, doesn't mean there are no issues. At most money should be able to be used for catching up, not for surpassing those that don't pay, or ideal for fashion or parts that don't directly effect gameplay.
again focusing more on what other ppl are doing than what you could or should be doing. its never ending. its not DIRECTLY affecting you in a way you can't avoid.
if your guild requirements are so high that you can't stay in that guild then that is a problem with the guild.
then compare yourself to ppl you can actually compete with rather than those you obviously can't.
this is starting to get into entitlement territory and i don't have the patients for it. you get what you pay for. you want pets boosts, costumes bag space extra horses etc etc etc you pay for it. if you don't want that you don't pay for it. really there is no obligation unless you want there to be.
its the same with any game they all have ways of putting more money into them to get more out of it, if its not expansions its dlc or boosts or something, is battlefield 4 pay to win, is wow pay to win, is elite dangerous pay to win, is call of duty pay to win. they all offer items you can't get without paying for them. those items let you have access to entirely new parts of the game that you usually can't access without paying, so in essence every game has things locked behind pay walls and you either like the game enough to buy them or you don't.
I did, but could do what I wanted to do which was sieges and guild wars due to the lower requirements leading to the guild being stomped constantly. So again, it directly effected me. Only stopped effecting me when I started playing other games to get that fix and kept BDO minimized afk.
Basically for me to avoid it, I had to give up what I wanted to do and the goals for such. basically remove my entire reason for playing the game.