Idea: FOB Capacity and Construction.

[GrooGrux]

I was thinking about FOBs recently. They are the most important part of my games. When placed effectively they can give you solid foothold into important areas of the map. When misplaced by even one hex they can endanger your supply lines. They are powerful, but maybe a bit too powerful. Here are some changes that might make the FOB's a bit more interesting.


Idea #1: FOB capacity

One way to up the (logistical) difficulty of the game would be to implement a limit on the number of units a FOB can house. I tend to spam supply trucks and support vehicles. Often a FOB will end up with dozens of units. I did a little research and I understand some of the bases in Afghanistan grew to the size of small cities, but I can't imagine all of them are this big.

So I was thinking putting a limit on the number of each type of unit that can be located in a FOB. Something like:

2-3 infantry
2-3 vehicles (MRAP, ASV, husky, buffalo, truck)
1 helicopter

These limits could be raised by building expansions (especially if some some new types of expansions were implemented). This would give a little more reason to utilize the expansions. I actually usually just use the artillery pit and maybe one hospital.

Maintenance Yard: add 2-3 motorized spots and a helicopter slot
Field Hospital: add 1-2 infantry capacity
*Helipad: add 3 helicopter capacity
*Barracks: add 3-5 infantry capacity
*Supply depot: add 5 truck spots and these spots can be used to store any supply a truck could carry

*not in the game

Note that if you start with a road connection you'll only have 5 adjacent hexes to expand. But most of the time I have fewer than this. So having these extra options will force you to decide which ones you really need. Also a FOB with one of each of the above expansion could hold 6-10 infantry, 4-11 motorized units, 5 helicopters. Which is likely more than you'd need.

Of course the numbers would need to be tweaked, and the helipad is not so strong (at least for my playstyle). Maybe it could get a passive vision boost or reduce drone cost/cooldown.

Idea #2: FOB construction.

I will admit it. I spam FOBs. One Buffalo might build 3 FOBs as he drives through hostile territory. Where do they keep all the materials to build them!? What if you needed a special construction supply that is delivered to the site to complete the base? I imagine the following progression:

Buffalo builds a Camp --> Supply truck delivers the required supply --> camp upgrades to FOB.

The camp can maybe offer the 1 ration per turn to infantry units, but can only house one vehicle. You don't get the mortar or the supply/fuel benefits until the FOB is completed.

Also FOB expansions could require construction supply as well. This would take a little logistics to make sure you can get the needed supplies to the base. I've built a FOB and two field hospitals in one turn so I could heal up some infantry to hold off a Taliban advance. It cost some PP, but I could easily afford it. It just didn't require any planning to get it done.

Also I'd reduce the starting supply and ammo of the FOB to 2 each. This would put the numbers more in line with a normal truckload of supply, and more importantly force you to resupply quicker.


Idea #3: FOB supply overflow

I love the graphics showing the current supply of the FOB. Watching that artillery ammo deplete while the enemy is closing in makes for some intense turns. But it takes too much micromanaging in order to maximize the efficiency of your resupply missions. I've never been in the army, it's all about efficiency right?

What if the delivery was allowed to overflow? Say I have 2/5 Ammo. At this level the base can accept a delivery so I send the truck. Now it has 7/5 ammo, but cannot accept more ammo delivery because the base is full. You could even penalize the player by temporarily reducing the capacity of the base, see above. ("sorry Charlie Company, you can't stay in the FOB tonight. Your bunks are full of mortar rounds.")


Thanks for reading. Let me know what you think. These additions can add a little flavor without adding a lot of difficulty. Each FOB will function a bit differently depending on how you build it. It will just make the player plan a bit more. It is a strategy game after all.

[Haako]

I'm not alone here. I should've share my ideas earlier, but... Such a detailed work. Nice one!

1. I was thinking about stacking for some time. I don't like Civilization4 (and previous editions) where u could stack half of your army in one city.. So, idea of managing limits of troops in base is very reasonable. It puts more strategy into the game and would show how difficult US Army life was in Afghanistan.

2a. Building bases also could use some changes. Sometimes I just build FOB to protect my Buffalo with mortars or to emergency resupply my distant units.

2b. Starting supplies reduced to 2 units are also a good idea. Also building another artillery pit should be empty (if I had a distant FOB and needed fast resupply I just built another artillery extension instead of supplying it with ammo truck).

3. I'm not so sure, because you can stack a truck with another ammo delivery. But mabye others have more interesting opinion about that.

I'm very interested what others/dev have to say about these ideas.

[GrooGrux]

Originally posted by Haako:

I'm not alone here. I should've share my ideas earlier, but... Such a detailed work. Nice one!

1. I was thinking about stacking for some time. I don't like Civilization4 (and previous editions) where u could stack half of your army in one city.. So, idea of managing limits of troops in base is very reasonable. It puts more strategy into the game and would show how difficult US Army life was in Afghanistan.

I did not like the stack of doom.

2a. Building bases also could use some changes. Sometimes I just build FOB to protect my Buffalo with mortars or to emergency resupply my distant units.

Yeah, this is my main complaint with it. Sometimes I'm low on fuel and build a FOB so I can regen it. I actually kind of like the idea of not letting bases regen fuel unless they have a fuel tank expansion, which of course would have to be resupplied. But this would require even more special supply coding.

2b. Starting supplies reduced to 2 units are also a good idea. Also building another artillery pit should be empty (if I had a distant FOB and needed fast resupply I just built another artillery extension instead of supplying it with ammo truck).

There are some FOBs that I never actually resupply. I tend to save the supplies and ammo for emergencies. There just aren't enough emergencies sometimes.

3. I'm not so sure, because you can stack a truck with another ammo delivery. But mabye others have more interesting opinion about that.

I don't know if I understand what you mean here. And maybe my original was not described as well as I could have.

Right now I can have effectively unlimited supply/ammo in any base. I spend my excess PP to buy trucks 10 at a time. Load them all up with supply and park a few of them in every FOB. Then I wait until I use the last resource and ungarrison the truck and fill the FOB back up.
The only thing I lose is the number of turns the truck sits in base. (Now if the FOB has a capacity limit, it would be harder to do this.)

But my main issue is the number of turns the truck just sits idle which encourages me to buy more trucks. If the base was allowed to accept a delivery that would overflow, it would free up the truck for other missions. It would increase the number of turns the FOB can operate without supply a bit, but it wouldn't affect the total number of deliveries over the course of the game.

Say I build a FOB on turn 5 in the middle of 3 caves. It shoots it's mortar every turn for 40 turns. I will need 8 deliveries to make sure the ammo is supplied. I could just buy 8 trucks and park them in the FOB dumping off the ammo as needed. I'd much rather have a truck just come back once every 5 turns to deliver the ammo.

Unfortunately, I usually don't shoot my mortar every turn and end up with the ammo resupply coming when I still have 1 or 2 shots left. So I can resupply up to 5 and waste the excess, or I can just have the truck sit there until I finally shoot the last shot.

I'm very interested what others/dev have to say about these ideas.

Me too. I really like the game. I wish more people talked about it. I tend to post really long boring things though. So my posts probably get ignored hah.

[Haako]

Originally posted by GrooGrux:

Originally posted by Haako:

I'm not alone here. I should've share my ideas earlier, but... Such a detailed work. Nice one!

1. I was thinking about stacking for some time. I don't like Civilization4 (and previous editions) where u could stack half of your army in one city.. So, idea of managing limits of troops in base is very reasonable. It puts more strategy into the game and would show how difficult US Army life was in Afghanistan.

I did not like the stack of doom.

So do I.
I often end with dozens Huskies, Buffalo and Supply Trucks at my HQ or at my "hot" FOB with numerous infantry, MRAPS and Apaches.

Originally posted by GrooGrux:

Originally posted by Haako:

3. I'm not so sure, because you can stack a truck with another ammo delivery. But mabye others have more interesting opinion about that.

I don't know if I understand what you mean here. And maybe my original was not described as well as I could have.

Right now I can have effectively unlimited supply/ammo in any base. I spend my excess PP to buy trucks 10 at a time. Load them all up with supply and park a few of them in every FOB. Then I wait until I use the last resource and ungarrison the truck and fill the FOB back up.
The only thing I lose is the number of turns the truck sits in base. (Now if the FOB has a capacity limit, it would be harder to do this.)

But my main issue is the number of turns the truck just sits idle which encourages me to buy more trucks. If the base was allowed to accept a delivery that would overflow, it would free up the truck for other missions. It would increase the number of turns the FOB can operate without supply a bit, but it wouldn't affect the total number of deliveries over the course of the game.

Say I build a FOB on turn 5 in the middle of 3 caves. It shoots it's mortar every turn for 40 turns. I will need 8 deliveries to make sure the ammo is supplied. I could just buy 8 trucks and park them in the FOB dumping off the ammo as needed. I'd much rather have a truck just come back once every 5 turns to deliver the ammo.

Unfortunately, I usually don't shoot my mortar every turn and end up with the ammo resupply coming when I still have 1 or 2 shots left. So I can resupply up to 5 and waste the excess, or I can just have the truck sit there until I finally shoot the last shot.

Not at all.. My English is not as good as I would like. But now I can see your point of view in a bigger picture. I agree with all points you said here. I would only strongly recommend that such overflow could be allowed when you have 1 (or 2) units of supplies/ammo in FOB. To avoid any overflow exploit.

I also hate situations when my artillery have one ammo left and have to decide when fill it with ammo. So, when I finnaly use my idle ammo truck (which was unused for more than few turns) to supply it and then on next turn I am forced to fire at enemy... Could have I waited that one more turn longer?! I have to live with feeling that I lost that one ammo.. ;)

Originally posted by GrooGrux:

Originally posted by Haako:

I'm very interested what others/dev have to say about these ideas.

Me too. I really like the game. I wish more people talked about it. I tend to post really long boring things though. So my posts probably get ignored hah.

Heh, the forum seems a bit more silent now than after the premier.
And no, your post are not boring, just very detailed. I very like to read such professional, practical input like yours.

[EverySingleSoldier]

All great points and have been part of discussion already,

1. Defintely need a unit linit in FOBs , already on the list
2. Valid point and agree, should make 'building abase' more substantial
3. We are looking to implement a storage extension that can be built at the FOB's , so player can have ammo/fuel/ration dumps.

Firstly, getting convoy system out the way, coming very soon ....