"Immigrants Out" Strategy

[Tsuichoi]

At present, I use the Hypochondriac trait, doubling the use of medical facilities, coupled with clinics and hospitals set to obstetrics, which increases the likelihood of pregnancy by 50% and finally the Mardi Gras edict to spur on a baby boom! What else could I be doing to increase my island's fertility? I recently learned that churches marry, and only heterosexual couples will sire children (naturally) so I wondered about the Religious Zealot trait, which doubles church attendance, but doubt the effect is substantial enough to warrant its selection over others. In any event, your suggestions are most welcome! Its an enjoyable challenge I highly recommend for those who haven't given this a try.

[LSD]

Don't forget the "Contraception Ban" edict. I don't think actually attending a church has any effect on marriage. Pretty sure they just move in together regardless.

I remember doing this a long time ago. The first few decades are a drudge. Don't forget kids schools set to improve intelligence for super-fast skilled Tropicans.

[Tsuichoi]

Originally posted by LSD:

Don't forget the "Contraception Ban" edict. I don't think actually attending a church has any effect on marriage. Pretty sure they just move in together regardless.

I remember doing this a long time ago. The first few decades are a drudge. Don't forget kids schools set to improve intelligence for super-fast skilled Tropicans.

Ah yes, my apologizes, thanks for noticing! I also do try and build a grade school ASAP whenever possible with the Spelling-Bee work mode on.

Oh and don't forget to construct an immigration office sooner rather than later, which can prevent unhappy citizens from leaving!

Its also worth mentioning how strong relations with Europe HALVES the cost of foreign experts, which is incredibly useful mid game.

Something I noticed in my last playthrough however was the problem of an over-educated workforce that left my raw materials gathering facilities highly understaffed. Any suggestions? Before you ask, I did close many teaching slots in my high school and college to slow the rate of graduation AND raised wages for laborers but still..

Another problem is employing women early on. Besides farming, there is very little for them to do, especially with an education. Teamsters, lumber jacks, miners, soldiers, priests and doctors are male only. Markets and education structures hire females with a high school diploma, as does the childhood museum and other entertainment buildings and later, media ones also, but there is only so much you can spend on these luxuries at the start. Perhaps you or some one else reading this has a better idea than me what to prioritize. Happy gaming everyone!

[QTV]

What kind of numbers are capable of getting?
I remember playing it around with it quite a lot back in the day, but I never actually tested out what was effective or not.
One thing to be beware of is that despite the names of things implying they should have an effect, they might not actually have any. So for example contraception ban might only affect your standing with the religious faction, rather than help produce babies.

Another thing I remember reading on the old forums on Kalypso forums was some people complaining that grad school were delaying children growing up.

[Tsuichoi]

Originally posted by QTV:

What kind of numbers are capable of getting?
I remember playing it around with it quite a lot back in the day, but I never actually tested out what was effective or not.
One thing to be beware of is that despite the names of things implying they should have an effect, they might not actually have any. So for example contraception ban might only affect your standing with the religious faction, rather than help produce babies.

Another thing I remember reading on the old forums on Kalypso forums was some people complaining that grad school were delaying children growing up.

Yeah i've wondered that as well, glad you brought this up.
With any luck, Kalypso releases a new and improved version in the near future that addresses those and other issues. It would be awesome if we got the "Forced Marriage" constitutional option from Tropico 6 in 4 as an edict too.

I might test out the grade school thing later.. Do you think that skill training boosts (Professor background for example, Scholarly trait, Literacy edict, Ministry bonus and Learning with Larry work mode, etc.) make a difference by the way? Never bothered to compare figures myself, but in theory, they should help students get an education sooner..
Thanks again for the info. Get back to me if you think of anything else and best regards.

[QTV]

Originally posted by Tsuichoi:

Originally posted by QTV:

What kind of numbers are capable of getting?
I remember playing it around with it quite a lot back in the day, but I never actually tested out what was effective or not.
One thing to be beware of is that despite the names of things implying they should have an effect, they might not actually have any. So for example contraception ban might only affect your standing with the religious faction, rather than help produce babies.

Another thing I remember reading on the old forums on Kalypso forums was some people complaining that grad school were delaying children growing up.

Yeah i've wondered that as well, glad you brought this up.
With any luck, Kalypso releases a new and improved version in the near future that addresses those and other issues. It would be awesome if we got the "Forced Marriage" constitutional option from Tropico 6 in 4 as an edict too.

I might test out the grade school thing later.. Do you think that skill training boosts (Professor background for example, Scholarly trait, Literacy edict, Ministry bonus and Learning with Larry work mode, etc.) make a difference by the way? Never bothered to compare figures myself, but in theory, they should help students get an education sooner..
Thanks again for the info. Get back to me if you think of anything else and best regards.

As far I can tell, stacking various skill training modifiers does seem to make workers fill their job skill bars faster and they do seem to get better at their jobs. So it is entirely possible that you can get kids pushed through grad school fast enough with a teacher that maxed out their skill. But I don't think it is necessary in an "immigrants out" game. There I think you just want any kids to grow up as fast as possible. It takes time you don't really have to max out the teacher. There might also be a cap for how fast they can learn their skills

It might be worth testing out though, because maybe the issue people had was that kids spent too long getting to and from school for example.

One thing I have considered testing myself is the impact of obstetrics workmode and the hypondriac trait. As I understand it, any family member visiting the doctor increases the chance of the female getting pregnant, so there is a possibility that the regular amounts of visits already increases it as much as it can.

Again, I have never actually tested these things, but spent a lot time considering them. I have used both witch doctor and Hypochondriac traits together, like you did and also just Hypochondriac trait. But it is hard really tell the impact without doing some actual statistics on them. Love festival is certainly a massive boost that one is easy to see in game.

A last thing here to ponder. How do Tropicans couple up? I assume they have to meet each other somewhere, so looking into entertainment buildings and maybe even churches might actually be a good idea as well.

[Tsuichoi]

Originally posted by QTV:

Originally posted by Tsuichoi:

Yeah i've wondered that as well, glad you brought this up.
With any luck, Kalypso releases a new and improved version in the near future that addresses those and other issues. It would be awesome if we got the "Forced Marriage" constitutional option from Tropico 6 in 4 as an edict too.

I might test out the grade school thing later.. Do you think that skill training boosts (Professor background for example, Scholarly trait, Literacy edict, Ministry bonus and Learning with Larry work mode, etc.) make a difference by the way? Never bothered to compare figures myself, but in theory, they should help students get an education sooner..
Thanks again for the info. Get back to me if you think of anything else and best regards.

As far I can tell, stacking various skill training modifiers does seem to make workers fill their job skill bars faster and they do seem to get better at their jobs. So it is entirely possible that you can get kids pushed through grad school fast enough with a teacher that maxed out their skill. But I don't think it is necessary in an "immigrants out" game. There I think you just want any kids to grow up as fast as possible. It takes time you don't really have to max out the teacher. There might also be a cap for how fast they can learn their skills

It might be worth testing out though, because maybe the issue people had was that kids spent too long getting to and from school for example.

One thing I have considered testing myself is the impact of obstetrics workmode and the hypondriac trait. As I understand it, any family member visiting the doctor increases the chance of the female getting pregnant, so there is a possibility that the regular amounts of visits already increases it as much as it can.

Again, I have never actually tested these things, but spent a lot time considering them. I have used both witch doctor and Hypochondriac traits together, like you did and also just Hypochondriac trait. But it is hard really tell the impact without doing some actual statistics on them. Love festival is certainly a massive boost that one is easy to see in game.

A last thing here to ponder. How do Tropicans couple up? I assume they have to meet each other somewhere, so looking into entertainment buildings and maybe even churches might actually be a good idea as well.

I too presume there is a age cap, younger than which a student cannot leave school, but it remains an unproven hypothesis for now.

You could be right about maxed-out visitations, but my informal experience suggests it does yield some marginal increase in pregnancies.

On a note related to the Witch Doctor trait is how survivalist works, specifically as it relates to food satisfaction. Unless I am mistaken, whenever a Tropican eats, he or she receives a boost to their happiness if the quality is high enough, in addition to fulfilling their need. If they do this less often, it stands to reason that fewer opportunities for this boost will occur, but I could very well be wrong on this.

I have a question related to your last one: Does each Tropican marry only in their income bracket / education level / or proximate workplace?? It does not seem to me so, or its a "preference" but not a deal breaker should their prospective spouse have a low paying job, are too dumb or smart, or commutes far away from each other. Maybe you have a theory.

P.S. I already suggested that churches marry but this could be error.. Meeting at entertainment venues, as you say, could be part of it, in which case, i'm doing something wrong not building them until after the first election.

[QTV]

For some reason, way back when I played Tropico 4 a lot, then I never considered using Hypochondriac with witch doctor, but I remember having a lot of trouble actually having enough capacity for the Tropicans only using the Hypochondriac trait. I also not sure I ever played immigrants out without hypochondriac trait.

More recent times there has been too long between sessions and in those games I have been quite rusty. It is a shame I never extracted data from those games, it would have been nice to have for comparison.
Specifically the immigrants out challenge is one I keep returning to still, but with large gaps in between.

Unfortunately I don't actually know many details of how things actually work in the game. When I was younger I wasn't too concerned about the details and many of these questions only really came to me the more recent years. A problem I have is that I almost played too much Tropico 4 when I was young for the game to really keep me interested to find out these things now when I return to it.

So unfortunately I can't give you many answers.

Also, I greatly appreciate you sharing your experience here. It is one my favourite games of all times.

[Tsuichoi]

Originally posted by QTV:

For some reason, way back when I played Tropico 4 a lot, then I never considered using Hypochondriac with witch doctor, but I remember having a lot of trouble actually having enough capacity for the Tropicans only using the Hypochondriac trait. I also not sure I ever played immigrants out without hypochondriac trait.

More recent times there has been too long between sessions and in those games I have been quite rusty. It is a shame I never extracted data from those games, it would have been nice to have for comparison.
Specifically the immigrants out challenge is one I keep returning to still, but with large gaps in between.

Unfortunately I don't actually know many details of how things actually work in the game. When I was younger I wasn't too concerned about the details and many of these questions only really came to me the more recent years. A problem I have is that I almost played too much Tropico 4 when I was young for the game to really keep me interested to find out these things now when I return to it.

So unfortunately I can't give you many answers.

Also, I greatly appreciate you sharing your experience here. It is one my favourite games of all times.

I do myself sometimes notice an uptake in deaths because of insufficient healthcare coverage early on and I therefore try and build a hospital after my clinic ASAP once I have enough power.

Right now I am trying it on max starting population, but I'd love to try it with the fewest as my strat proves more effective.

Crying shame that a strategy guide was never released for this game with the inside scoop on how the mechanics actually works from the developers themselves with detailed stats.

Tropico 4 is superb and easily ranks among my very favorites ever. It's great to meet someone who shares my passion for the game and has clearly given it significant thought. Always happy to discuss this and more here and elsewhere.

[JC]

You can still hire workers with immigrants out, like if you need a teacher or collage lvl person. It's expensive though, but it can help boost your early population, which in turn makes a pretty big difference. Using teachers and diplomats is the more common method for women and military which gives you the male. You might be better off though just getting factory workers to boost your early game production, but just make sure you are not getting to many male or female only, as that hurts making couples.

[Wenchbane]

Another thing, if you've got Mordern Times, is building a cabaret and popping the "Festival of Love" edict under the modern category. It's almost like all couples will have a child. Has a boost to Tourist spending as a bonus too.

As others have stated though, Clinics/Hospitals w Obstetrics combined w traits like Hypochondriac. Just be sure to anticipate the hit to productivity your female workforce will have once they are pregnant.

If it all fails you can always get some cheaper, uneducated workforce to fill gaps and boost population, but if you're doing the Immigrants Out option this will defeat the purpose.

[Raptor]

Originally posted by Tsuichoi:

Something I noticed in my last playthrough however was the problem of an over-educated workforce that left my raw materials gathering facilities highly understaffed. Any suggestions? Before you ask, I did close many teaching slots in my high school and college to slow the rate of graduation AND raised wages for laborers but still..

A problem is building too many industries or other facilities that use educated workforce too quickly. They will fill up these spots because of the better pay, leaving raw materials lacking a workforce. Build slowly, and make sure there are just enough jobs for everyone.

[Wenchbane]

Another thing to try is blocking positions in those industry buildings.
You won't need 2 teamsters in each garage initially. Early on you might only need 3 teamsters in the teamster garage. Supermarkets might not need 4 open jobs, etc. Finding what you have over-serviced and slowly growing to fill open positions is part of it.

[Raptor]

Originally posted by Tsuichoi:

I have a question related to your last one: Does each Tropican marry only in their income bracket / education level / or proximate workplace?? It does not seem to me so, or its a "preference" but not a deal breaker should their prospective spouse have a low paying job, are too dumb or smart, or commutes far away from each other. Maybe you have a theory.

I have never really noticed anything about education or jobs having an impact on marriage.
I have seen college level people married to uneducated people. It could always just have been that one got an education after they married, but I don't pay that much attention to individuals.

[Raptor]

Originally posted by Wenchbane:

Another thing to try is blocking positions in those industry buildings.
You won't need 2 teamsters in each garage initially. Early on you might only need 3 teamsters in the teamster garage. Supermarkets might not need 4 open jobs, etc. Finding what you have over-serviced and slowly growing to fill open positions is part of it.

Until later on, when I have lots of people (Like after the Chinese Edict) will I have 2 teamsters in a garage. They seem to work just fine with 1.
Same with supermarkets, 1 shopkeeper works fine.
The only buildings you need to worry about keeping fully staffed, are the ones that have customers, as the number of customers is dependant on how many staff there is.

[JC]

Originally posted by Raptor:

Originally posted by Tsuichoi:

Something I noticed in my last playthrough however was the problem of an over-educated workforce that left my raw materials gathering facilities highly understaffed. Any suggestions? Before you ask, I did close many teaching slots in my high school and college to slow the rate of graduation AND raised wages for laborers but still..

A problem is building too many industries or other facilities that use educated workforce too quickly. They will fill up these spots because of the better pay, leaving raw materials lacking a workforce. Build slowly, and make sure there are just enough jobs for everyone.

You can close off jobs, so that should not be a problem. If you want just one worker you can close off all the rest.


As for filling the other jobs, you just need to set up a diplomat office and set it to increase low skill workers. Just change it when the boat is coming and it loads off what you select. So you can keep it to educated workers most of the time, but when you need more people, swap it to everyone. with good diplomats you will get 10-15 workers every boat if your island is good, If its better even more.