Barbarians very weak compared to fighters

[Asperger Berzerker]

The fighter's many bonus feats make him objectively better than the barbarian, especially when magic +STR items make Rage obsolete.

Solution is to give Barbarians bonus feats and let them take the fighter feats that relate specifically to combat maneuvers and weapon specialization. Barbarians should feel more focused and powerful, while Fighters can be more versatile and get mastery of more than one type of weapon/fighting style. Fighters should also get the best ranged weapon talents, with Barbarians having only the basic choices for ranged attacks.

As of now, there is no reason ever to make a Barbarian when the Fighter is better at all forms of combat AND gets more options.

[VladK02]

Цитата допису Principes:

I like the barbarians will save, but in a group it doesnt make much difference if a guy is offline for 2 turns. Especially in large fights. I have noticed no impact on soloing at all. Once again after a certain level the magic item stat bonuses mean you dont fail saves. However, between 20-50 there are certain bosses that you will almost always fail, but once again not that big a deal. Still I do like rage for the will save, but its not enough to compensate for barbarians lack of flexibility and 2 hand knockdon or whirlwind in groups.

whirlwind is strange i agree. barb should be the one with whirlwind, and barb should be the one with master knockdown, not fighter.

[Principes Legio]

The original idea was for them to be a high burst DPS unit that takes tremendous damage and requires lots of healing in a protracted fight or must put the enemy down quickly. At present they are not that.

[Asperger Berzerker]

Цитата допису Principes:

The original idea was for them to be a high burst DPS unit that takes tremendous damage and requires lots of healing in a protracted fight or must put the enemy down quickly. At present they are not that.

Agreed. Barbarian needs more feats and access to certain fighter-only feats that apply to weapons, such as greater weapon spec and greater knockdown so he is not always being out-performed at his own game. He also needs some way to evolve his rage, maybe with class-specific feats in the same way that the Rogue has more class-spcecific feats.

The fighter will still have higher AC, more weapon feats for special effects and the ability to be really good at both ranged and melee fighting. The barbarian would be a more specialized melee brawler.

[Terry A. Davis]

Цитата допису Rogal Trump:

Barbarian needs more feats and access to certain fighter-only feats that apply to weapons, such as greater weapon spec and greater knockdown so he is not always being out-performed at his own game.

I see barbarians as nomad fighters who rely on brutal strength, mighty constitution and roidraging instead of disciplined weapons training and heavy armor so I don't think barbarians should get access to greater weapons specialization. Knockdown, sure.

Цитата допису Rogal Trump:

He also needs some way to evolve his rage, maybe with class-specific feats in the same way that the Rogue has more class-spcecific feats.

It would be cool to see a similar mechanic as in D&D 5th edition which lets you pick from diffrent rage types at 3rd level. You can only pick one from a set of options which grant you feats in later levels that adds additional effects to your raging powers depending on the path you chose at 3rd level. Example: https://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/UA_Barbarian.pdf

[Low Magic Studios]

Цитата допису spudro:

Цитата допису Rogal Trump:

He also needs some way to evolve his rage, maybe with class-specific feats in the same way that the Rogue has more class-spcecific feats.

It would be cool to see a similar mechanic as in D&D 5th edition which lets you pick from diffrent rage types at 3rd level. You can only pick one from a set of options which grant you feats in later levels that adds additional effects to your raging powers depending on the path you chose at 3rd level. Example: https://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/UA_Barbarian.pdf

Cool stuff, spudro. Another cool stuff is Rage Powers of pathfinder:

Rage Powers (Ex):

As a barbarian gains levels, she learns to use her rage in new ways. Starting at 2nd level, a barbarian gains a rage power. She gains another rage power for every two levels of barbarian attained after 2nd level. A barbarian gains the benefits of rage powers only while raging, and some of these powers require the barbarian to take an action first. Unless otherwise noted, a barbarian cannot select an individual power more than once.

Animal Fury (Ex): While raging, the barbarian gains a bite attack. If used as part of a full attack action, the bite attack is made at the barbarian's full base attack bonus –5. If the bite hits, it deals 1d4 points of damage (assuming the barbarian is Medium; 1d3 points of damage if Small) plus half the barbarian's Strength modifier. A barbarian can make a bite attack as part of the action to maintain or break free from a grapple. This attack is resolved before the grapple check is made. If the bite attack hits, any grapple checks made by the barbarian against the target this round are at a +2 bonus.

Clear Mind (Ex): A barbarian may reroll a failed Will save. This power is used as an immediate action after the first save is attempted, but before the results are revealed by the GM. The barbarian must take the second result, even if it is worse. A barbarian must be at least 8th level before selecting this power. This power can only be used once per rage.

Fearless Rage (Ex): While raging, the barbarian is immune to the shaken and frightened conditions. A barbarian must be at least 12th level before selecting this rage power.

...


Full version:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/classes/barbarian.html
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/

[Asperger Berzerker]

A lot of the Pathfinder rage powers are garbage. Biting someone for 1d3 damage or rerolling a will save is weaksauce compared to what the Fighter already gets.

If you really want good inspiration for the Barbarian class, look at the Frenzied Berzerker prestige class from D&D 3.5's Complete Warrior splatbook. Bear Warrior (shapeshifter) is a good one, too. I would remove the chance to attack allies from Berzerker but the actual benefits are solid gold for a Barbarian: Extra attack, more dmg from Rage and power attack, gives up defense for the sake of killing things faster, more cleave opportunities.

I also recommend giving the Barbarian access to the Fighter feats for Greater Two-Handed Fighting and the better Charge and so on, since Fighters already get all the best combat maneuver feats AND better armor options. The problem right now is that Fighters are better at straight up killing things than Barbarians as well as being harder to hit AND having all the best moves. I would like to see Barbarians be the straight up damage masters while Fighters get more and better combat maneuvers and heavier armor.

If you really want to make Barbarians good, a good idea is to take a look at the Frenzied Berzerker and create something based on that.

[Low Magic Studios]

Цитата допису Rogal Trump:

A lot of the Pathfinder rage powers are garbage. Biting someone for 1d3 damage or rerolling a will save is weaksauce compared to what the Fighter already gets.

If you really want good inspiration for the Barbarian class, look at the Frenzied Berzerker prestige class from D&D 3.5's Complete Warrior splatbook. Bear Warrior (shapeshifter) is a good one, too. I would remove the chance to attack allies from Berzerker but the actual benefits are solid gold for a Barbarian: Extra attack, more dmg from Rage and power attack, gives up defense for the sake of killing things faster, more cleave opportunities.

I also recommend giving the Barbarian access to the Fighter feats for Greater Two-Handed Fighting and the better Charge and so on, since Fighters already get all the best combat maneuver feats AND better armor options. The problem right now is that Fighters are better at straight up killing things than Barbarians as well as being harder to hit AND having all the best moves. I would like to see Barbarians be the straight up damage masters while Fighters get more and better combat maneuvers and heavier armor.

If you really want to make Barbarians good, a good idea is to take a look at the Frenzied Berzerker and create something based on that.

Thanks for the recommendation! We'll study the Frenzied Berzerker and Bear Warrior prestige classes when improve the Barbarian class or a Barbarian prestige class.

[Asperger Berzerker]

Цитата допису Low Magic Studios:

Цитата допису Rogal Trump:

A lot of the Pathfinder rage powers are garbage. Biting someone for 1d3 damage or rerolling a will save is weaksauce compared to what the Fighter already gets.

If you really want good inspiration for the Barbarian class, look at the Frenzied Berzerker prestige class from D&D 3.5's Complete Warrior splatbook. Bear Warrior (shapeshifter) is a good one, too. I would remove the chance to attack allies from Berzerker but the actual benefits are solid gold for a Barbarian: Extra attack, more dmg from Rage and power attack, gives up defense for the sake of killing things faster, more cleave opportunities.

I also recommend giving the Barbarian access to the Fighter feats for Greater Two-Handed Fighting and the better Charge and so on, since Fighters already get all the best combat maneuver feats AND better armor options. The problem right now is that Fighters are better at straight up killing things than Barbarians as well as being harder to hit AND having all the best moves. I would like to see Barbarians be the straight up damage masters while Fighters get more and better combat maneuvers and heavier armor.

If you really want to make Barbarians good, a good idea is to take a look at the Frenzied Berzerker and create something based on that.

Thanks for the recommendation! :trulycheers: We'll study the Frenzied Berzerker and Bear Warrior prestige classes when improve the Barbarian class or a Barbarian prestige class.

That's very good to hear! Thank you for making this awesome game and for being cool and listening to your player base.

[Asperger Berzerker]

Any update on Barbarian class changes? Also, how close are we to releasing Adventure Mode?

[Low Magic Studios]

Цитата допису Rogal Trump:

Any update on Barbarian class changes? Also, how close are we to releasing Adventure Mode?

More new classes and updates on existing classes will be released after the adventure mode. For now, we must focus on the most anticipated adventure mode;)

If all things go well, we'll release the first version of the adventure mode later this year or early next year.

[Asperger Berzerker]

Any updates on the bear warrior and frenzied berzerker changes? Are we really going to see some cool Barbarian-only powers or alternate class features?

[Something completely different]

Adventure mode isn't out yet so my guess would be a 'nope'

[Asperger Berzerker]

Give Barbarians access to weapon spec, greater two-handed fighting and maybe one other weapon-based feat and they will be fine. As of now, there is just no reason to be a barb when a fighter does everything better and gets all the special attacks at the highest level.

There is no reason why a Barbarian wouldn't have greater 2-handed fighting, for example.