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I am constantly running triple rail guns with multiple caps (usually purple Multishots, turning 3 rails to 6 or even 9 = 600 - 900+ damage per shot) with my other gun being multiple high DPS barrels like triple Rapid or Line Blasters with their own set of caps (upwards of 500+ dps with purple Heavyweights) and with a little energy management (like tap-shooting the blasters instead of holding down fire) I almost never run out of energy before clearing rooms. Iirc it's like 68 energy per shot on the rail setup and about 47 for the Blasters (per gun, not per barrel)...one on each arm alternating, the energy is freaking limitless man. There is one barrel type that depletes ridiculous amounts of energy though and I never use it for that reason - it's called the Energy Burst or something and they cost like 40 energy per barrel rather than the usual 12-18 or so ... kind of crazy. Cool looking bullets though - it automatic fires what looks like laser saws/spirals or something.
I'm sure there are some crazy 10-barrel setups that can deplete you in a single shot no matter what, but the overkill on those would be ridiculous, and balancing energy cost to those types of setups would make the game way too easy. 500dps is already high enough to get through level 10+ rooms with relative ease, unless it's like a small lava/poison/spike filled room overflowing with Beefy Turrets and those really fast little flying imp-bots that pop out of the squid heads (I hate those damn things...) - which is ridiculous no matter what. They would have to make scaling way way higher per room and let you build crazy sh*t right away, with more shops available, or something to let you build those types of weapons without them depleting you.
EDIT:::
Nice review by the way. Basically agree with everything he says. Not entirely relevant to the discussion we were having though - he mentions the energy thing for like 2 seconds and states explicitly it is something the player must balance before moving immediately to criticising the RNG elements of the game (which I agree with him on). He does mention something that doesn't make much sense though, mentioning "having 4 chainguns and a railgun for good measure" being potentially ineffective due to the energy cost - but the difference in energy cost between those barrels is like 2-4 energy depending on the rarity, which is completely marginal. Not to mention putting burst barrels alongside automatic barrels (on the same gun) is inefficient as well when you have two arms to put guns on.
5 barrels at 16 energy cost per barrel is 80 energy, which is perfectly manageable on a burst gun (like 5 gold railgun barrels, which cost 16 energy per barrel - although having 3 railguns with a purple Multishot cap is much more efficient and does more damage) and a max energy bar. On an automatic though, you would have to treat it like a semi-automatic and tap-shoot instead to get efficiency out of it. Combining those two on the same gun would have you wasting rail shots on smaller bots just to hit them with the automatic fire and obviously that would deplete your energy unnecessarily fast. That's why, again, you have two arms.
One other thing he mentions is the fall damage. You can, using only a single upgrade, get rid of that entirely.
Outside of those things I am on board 100% with that review.
Punch damage upgrades are mutually exclusive with Energy recharge options. So the incentive for going with half the guns... is still WTF because each arm has it's own energy bar, and punching is an energy hog too for how high risk it is.
Though they also went and made max energy mutually exclusive with max health. So artificial handicaps abound even if you grind up the experience.
EDIT: Also punch upgrades seem to have diminishing returns? At least in the firing range. +25% is 50 damage. +50% is 75 DMG. +75% is... 88 damage. 100% is 100 damage. You get the idea.
Then the best part of testing punch upgrades in the firing range? You take out all the upgrades, and see... 100 damage pop ups. Meaning 25-75% upgrades, according to the firing range, is less than default damage. No upgrades takes 4 punches to kill the big turret holograms. +25% damage turns it into 6 punches. Welp. Back to energy recharge rates it is!
Perhaps upgrades actually making you worse, and investing in +100% damage finally bringing you back to default is an aspect of roguelike gameplay I've never noticed over these many years?
Even swooping in with examples of how it's always better damage in missions (and I do hope such is the case, as Punch boosts is already shooting yourself in the foot by locking out energy recharge without such absurdity) does not take away this Nth example of missing polish.
And even knowin that much meant hammering the screenshot button and examining the results from how swift pop ups are.
Not exactly the sort of interface feedback you'd expect outside of early access. Most of the frustration is from how this game desreves better, for how solid the foundation is.
Maybe in future DLC or something they will release caps that half energy consumption of the gun, I don't know. I do know there are special rare caps so it might even exist already but has yet to be found.
I suppose selective memory is always a mainstay of stubbornly denying any crituque.
Is this that thing where people expect gullible customers to just roll over when they hear dollar store phrases?
No wonder the defenses of this game's rough edges are nothing but bingo card stock phrases.
Then you went on to imply said selective memory causes me to to "stubbornly deny any critique" despite my post on page 1 of this thread agreeing with the OP, and the one at the top of this page agreeing with nearly all of the video posted by the guy I was replying to in the first place. Sounds a lot like I confirmed many critiques and only disagree with one. But facts don't matter to the egotist, because confirmation bias dictates that if I disagree with one thing you agree with, then I disagree with all of them.
You jumped the gun, got snide with the closing implication despite your own lack of contextual awareness, and are continuing the smug nature of your posts which, as I said, is pretty hypocritical (in principal - further explanation here could be taken as an insult so I'll avoid it and assume you understand).
But carry on - I won't reply if that continues to be your demeanor since it'll only lead to thread derailment. Already replied too much, honestly.
Funny enough in the first video with the crazy gun there is no energy bar on the screen in the second video when its going crazy with the barrels the vide quickly cuts into a new scene after the first shot to hide the energy depletion.
This is even going as far as false advertising.
Anyway:
1 - Notice the video in the store page also has no hp bar, jump count, etc. Wanna know why? Because it has the ENTIRE HUD off to showcase the gameplay. This is a very common practice in marketing gameplay for commercials and/or trailers.
2 - The guns in the trailer are possible especially considering most of them spread the barrels across both arms. I've made bigger than some of the ones shown in the trailer and fired them just fine - multiple shots off of 90+ energy cost 5-6 burst-barreled guns and about 5 seconds worth of holding down fire with nearly 80 energy cost fully automatic 5 barreled guns, using an upgraded bar. 5-6 barrels and 1-2 caps per gun, per arm on a "window/border" build (using three 3-arm connectors to build along the sides, top and bottom of the screen on each arm) which looks like a single huge 10-12 barrel gun with 2-4 caps costing 75-90+ energy each creating a border around your entire screen. Transition them properly and you can fire endlessly, slaughtering any room you come across. Easy.
Also:
For the record I suggest you at least unlock and/or play around in Sandbox Mode like I have before attempting to contribute anything to this discussion.
Though more seriously, begging for a critique thread to be closed won't change the reasons people are making threads like this in the first place.
Meanwhile, the stuff like punch upgrades resulting in WORSE damage in the firing range?
That's far more literally dysfunctional. So why are you less concerned with that?
Phew good. I would have sworn it was contagious looking at all the cancer posts.
To add my own 2 cents, the game is extremely underwhelming. The only fun the game has to offer IS the gun customization. Which is heavily limited. The maps are dull, the RNG doesn't add anything positive except make the game come over as a lazy mans project, the enemies are uninspired, most weapons are extremely meh. The base game mechanics are just much too shallow.
Game doesn't explain anything about why to go into a different room. Why to go into a challenge or random room.
The resource collecting is extremely counter intuitive. This mechanic really sucks out whatever little bit of fun the game has to offer.
If that wasn't enough, the "secrets".. I really don't understand why this was added. Any sense of speed and action the game offered was gone after the first map, after I saw "0/7 secrets" or whatever the number was. As on future maps, especially once I discovered how a secret appeared, after clearing every room you'd just be busy jumping around near the walls. Frantically. Probably repeatedly along the same walls. This stops the game flat. This kills the gameplay. This mechanic is the worst thing you could have put into a game like this. It's not often that I would recommend to cut content, but if ever, this would be the time.
All in all I feel the game is worth about half the asking price, considering the content. Personally I wouldn't pay a dime.
Edit: Oh, I thought the game was cheaper. No, it's not even worth €12,50 in terms of content. I figure around €8 somewhere. Look closely and see how little the game actually has to offer. How simple everything, from graphics to sounds, really is. And then the RNG that controls most of the gameplay further hints towards how little time was required to develop this game, compared to most projects of a similar price. I really don't feel this is a fair price. Not even close.
Don't come at me with stupid. There is nothing but too edgy for me kids trying to outdue each others comments with tribe mentality.
To the OP, thanks for the thorough review and feedback. The game is definitely unique from TOG in a lot of ways. In some cases, its a vast improvement, but now I hope you all see why I didn't want to call it ToG2 as we progressed on wiht development: we simply wanted to do DIFFERENT (and potentially experimental) things with it. Thanks for not leaving the negative review though--that means a lot, as you are right that those can be pretty impactful. I much prefer folks voicing their concerns here.
I do have hopes we can continue to build on Mothergunships foundation, but the direction that takes largely will depend on community feedback and Grip's input as well. Personally, I'm all for bringing back some more ToG-like elements in places, but Grip and I work best together when we align what we are excited about, so we'll see!
As for the punch LOWERING damage. Wowwww.. How did we miss that. I'll add it to the bug list now. Thanks for the report, folks.