Steel Division: Normandy 44

Steel Division: Normandy 44

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Speculation about new Divisions in SD2
What do you guys think the new divisions will be at the launch of SD2?

I personally hope we are going to see some Big named SS divisions like 2. SS-Panzer-Division Das Reich ,5. SS-Panzer-Division Wiking and 3rd SS Panzer Division Totenkopf. I also think we will see the comeback of the luftwaffe feld divisions. i also hope for a Hungarian division and a romanian at release. pure for faction diversity and new units

For the russians the famous Guard tank and infantry divisions will be at release. i am sure of it.

What does anyone else think?

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Showing 1-14 of 14 comments
Sev Aug 4, 2018 @ 4:59pm 
2.SS was at that time on France, 3.SS and 5. SS depend on the timeframe eugen set itself. Further there is no need for SS units there are enough interesting Heer units. There are besides the generic Infantry Divisions, 2 Jäger Divisions who were among the three highest decorated infantry divisions in the whole Heer, the famous 78. Sturm Division, Stug Brigades, Tiger units, Nashorn units, Panzer Brigades, Kavallerie Brigades, Fallschirmjäger, etc. etc. ofc. all depending on the timescale.

The Hungarians will be interesting too .

The Tank Corps, being tank blobs with low numbers of infantry will be interesting how they translate into the game, the mechanized Corps will most likely pretty similar to german panzer divs.
Sluggger Aug 4, 2018 @ 6:10pm 
Most of the Panzer divisions were in AG N Ukraine and AG S Ukraine, many were sent north during Bagration. I would expect, 4th, 5th, 6th, 12th and 20th Panzer divisions, with various infantry units from 3rd Panzer, 4th and 9th Armies.
Wolf01 Aug 4, 2018 @ 6:22pm 
dlc for warsaw uprising maybe? & or cherkassy pocket
Wolf01 Aug 4, 2018 @ 6:24pm 
Warsaw would be interesting with polish partisan army
CheeseMerchant Aug 4, 2018 @ 7:01pm 
Originally posted by Sev:
2.SS was at that time on France, 3.SS and 5. SS depend on the timeframe eugen set itself. Further there is no need for SS units there are enough interesting Heer units. There are besides the generic Infantry Divisions, 2 Jäger Divisions who were among the three highest decorated infantry divisions in the whole Heer, the famous 78. Sturm Division, Stug Brigades, Tiger units, Nashorn units, Panzer Brigades, Kavallerie Brigades, Fallschirmjäger, etc. etc. ofc. all depending on the timescale.

The Hungarians will be interesting too .

The Tank Corps, being tank blobs with low numbers of infantry will be interesting how they translate into the game, the mechanized Corps will most likely pretty similar to german panzer divs.


The time frame just like normandy will be the entire timeframe of operation bagration. they did the same with Normandy so why would they limit themselfs this time?

There is a need for some well known divisions like the SS units. those units are well known and gives the game the proper advertisement it needs to attracts an audience.Also SS units had the most advance equipment at their disposal. which is another reason, and most SS divisions managed to survive operation bagration


Also you mention alot of brigades which wont be their own units. but will act as attachments to divisions. i can't find much information about the 78 sturm(or infantry) division. only that they defended the moscow-minsk road and got destroyed when they failed to break out/
acur1231 Aug 4, 2018 @ 8:35pm 
Nah, SS units are naff. We should have several German infantry divisions, we do not have enough in SD.
Sev Aug 5, 2018 @ 12:30am 
Originally posted by A Fist Full of Shekels:
Originally posted by Sev:


The time frame just like normandy will be the entire timeframe of operation bagration. they did the same with Normandy so why would they limit themselfs this time?

There is a need for some well known divisions like the SS units. those units are well known and gives the game the proper advertisement it needs to attracts an audience.Also SS units had the most advance equipment at their disposal. which is another reason, and most SS divisions managed to survive operation bagration


Also you mention alot of brigades which wont be their own units. but will act as attachments to divisions. i can't find much information about the 78 sturm(or infantry) division. only that they defended the moscow-minsk road and got destroyed when they failed to break out/

The timeframe will not stop Eugen from including units they deem interesting only because the unit arrived two days after bagrations end.

I dont think a game needs SS units as advertisement, i understand the point you are coming from, but someone will not buy the game if he/she is interrested only because there are no SS units.
That SS units had better equipment is by the way not true, if you look out for a German Division with preference for new toys look at the Grossdeutschland Division. The Wehrmacht was in charge of weapon allocations and made sure their units got the first pick.
The Totenkopf at that time had even still no Panthers and as the only outstanding thing a Tiger company.

Ah Stug Brigade is surely an attachment, a Panzer Brigade not so much, depends on the respective units, what i wanted to express is that all this units give interesting combinations ingame instead of a generic SS unit which is ingame because...its SS.

The 78. Sturm was planned to be an overstrength infantry division, held back as attack specialists, despite that they were constantly up front but the Division has several additional Divisional sub units, like Stugs, additional Granatwerfer, tracked Panzerjäger etc. plus it was partly re-equipped with MP44s.
But this is only one division among many interesting ones.
Lucky Stralex Aug 5, 2018 @ 12:44am 
Originally posted by acur1231:
Nah, SS units are naff. We should have several German infantry divisions, we do not have enough in SD.
We do, they are just completely outgunned by armoured divisions so no one uses them.
IceWord Aug 5, 2018 @ 1:24am 
Gents,it is called SD2 not SD:Bagration,they aren't likely to hit their foot with BS like Normandy battlefield this time so anything goes.
CheeseMerchant Aug 5, 2018 @ 1:48am 
Originally posted by Sev:
Originally posted by A Fist Full of Shekels:


The time frame just like normandy will be the entire timeframe of operation bagration. they did the same with Normandy so why would they limit themselfs this time?

There is a need for some well known divisions like the SS units. those units are well known and gives the game the proper advertisement it needs to attracts an audience.Also SS units had the most advance equipment at their disposal. which is another reason, and most SS divisions managed to survive operation bagration


Also you mention alot of brigades which wont be their own units. but will act as attachments to divisions. i can't find much information about the 78 sturm(or infantry) division. only that they defended the moscow-minsk road and got destroyed when they failed to break out/

The timeframe will not stop Eugen from including units they deem interesting only because the unit arrived two days after bagrations end.

I dont think a game needs SS units as advertisement, i understand the point you are coming from, but someone will not buy the game if he/she is interrested only because there are no SS units.
That SS units had better equipment is by the way not true, if you look out for a German Division with preference for new toys look at the Grossdeutschland Division. The Wehrmacht was in charge of weapon allocations and made sure their units got the first pick.
The Totenkopf at that time had even still no Panthers and as the only outstanding thing a Tiger company.

Ah Stug Brigade is surely an attachment, a Panzer Brigade not so much, depends on the respective units, what i wanted to express is that all this units give interesting combinations ingame instead of a generic SS unit which is ingame because...its SS.

The 78. Sturm was planned to be an overstrength infantry division, held back as attack specialists, despite that they were constantly up front but the Division has several additional Divisional sub units, like Stugs, additional Granatwerfer, tracked Panzerjäger etc. plus it was partly re-equipped with MP44s.
But this is only one division among many interesting ones.


SS units had on average better equipment. The first units receiving stg 44's were the SS units and SS units were on average better motorised receiving halftracks much quicker then wehr units. And with SS i ofcourse mean the German SS divisions. Not the foreign volunteer only ones

About the wehr receiving panthers earlier. That is true. However the panther was meant to be the standard german tank. While the tiger was specialized equipment only given to experienced crews. Crews mostly from SS units. Basing your statement that the wehr got equipment faster because they received panthers,meant to be standard equipment, means nothing if you look at the amount of specializsd and rare equipment SS divisions got which the wehr barely received.

The way you are describing the 78th sturm sounds alot like 17th ss. They both use the knight fist as a symbol. And 17th was also used as an agressive infantry division.


I think you have enough people that want to roleplay with well known divisions. The SS for obvious reasons is infamous. Someone who likes ww2 rts games but does not know much about division names gets more interested by seeing names of the SS divs mentioned above then seeing wehr divs with a random order of numbers followed up by ether "infantry" or "panzer". I am not downplaying the wehrmacht and the role they played ofcourse. I am looking at it from the perspective of a new player which only has basic knowledge about ww2 and divs that fought in it.

Panzer brigades like the schwerer panzer abteilungen could be attached to units but also could operate independantly.

Last edited by CheeseMerchant; Aug 5, 2018 @ 1:48am
Sev Aug 5, 2018 @ 3:10am 
About the SS, yes i agree they tend to get more attention due their infamous reputation etc. but i dont think they decide the buying decision. Im pretty sure we will see some but in Bagration there where a lot less SS units than in Normandy and i hope the unit selection will reflect that.

I agree also, IF the 78. Sturm comes it will be pretty similar to the 17.SS.

About the equipment of the SS, as i said before, the distribution was in the hands of the Heer and it shows. The SS was not the first to recieve the Mkb 42 but a normal infantry Division, 92. ID iirc, with some more distribution later, among them the Wiking but not in big numbers. The first fully MP43 equipped Division was the 1. Skijäger Division, followed by the 5. and 28. Jäger Divs and the 1. Infantry Division plus further shipments in smaller quantities mainly to Heer units on the eastern front, thats why you see not much MP43/44s in the Normandy and especialy not in SS hands. In fact the biggest recievers in late war where the Volksgrenadier Divisions who had 2 of 3 platoons per company fully equipped with STG 44s.

Also halftracks were used in bigger quantities in summer 42 in Heer Pz Divs, at that time the SS Divs had almost no halftracks on their TO&E. The reason the SS Divisions had in 43 and in the case of the Tkpf to the wars end, Tiger Companies is the lack of experienced crews, look at the founding of SS Panzer units, they were pretty late to he party and had not the experienced personel the Heer had. The Tiger coys were build up to establish a experienced core of personel to build the tiger coys later up to btl. size to create the Korps level units they were planned to be. The Heer was also faster in that, also creating the first tiger units and in bigger number.

As a sidenote, the first crews of Tiger units were not elite crews but troublemakers and misfits. You can read it for example in the diaries of the 11. and 24. Pz divs. Each panzer Abteilung had to send some few men back to germany, as the military works no one gives his best men away, so the units used this opportunity to get rid of their oddballs....which were the founding stock for the Tiger Abteilungen.

The SS divisions look often impressive, having more equipment etc. fact is they had often units incorporated for later upsizing to independant korps level units. The main difference was regarding the panzer divs that they had 2 Panzergrenadier Btls. more than the Heer Divs.

I personaly also hope to see more diverse and exotic units, for example on soviet side M4 shermans, sapper regiments, etc. Same goes for the German side, the most intriguing for me will be how the hungarians will be ingame.
acur1231 Aug 5, 2018 @ 3:35am 
The Soviets can have a breakthrough unit(sappers, shock troops, PT-34s, IS-2s and ISU-152s in abundance), an infantry unit, a tank unit, a Guards unit, a Guards Tank Army and so on. At least one T-34 heavy unit, with T-34-85s, and another with more Lend Leased and older equipment.
CheeseMerchant Aug 5, 2018 @ 8:56am 
Originally posted by Sev:
About the SS, yes i agree they tend to get more attention due their infamous reputation etc. but i dont think they decide the buying decision. Im pretty sure we will see some but in Bagration there where a lot less SS units than in Normandy and i hope the unit selection will reflect that.

I agree also, IF the 78. Sturm comes it will be pretty similar to the 17.SS.

About the equipment of the SS, as i said before, the distribution was in the hands of the Heer and it shows. The SS was not the first to recieve the Mkb 42 but a normal infantry Division, 92. ID iirc, with some more distribution later, among them the Wiking but not in big numbers. The first fully MP43 equipped Division was the 1. Skijäger Division, followed by the 5. and 28. Jäger Divs and the 1. Infantry Division plus further shipments in smaller quantities mainly to Heer units on the eastern front, thats why you see not much MP43/44s in the Normandy and especialy not in SS hands. In fact the biggest recievers in late war where the Volksgrenadier Divisions who had 2 of 3 platoons per company fully equipped with STG 44s.

Also halftracks were used in bigger quantities in summer 42 in Heer Pz Divs, at that time the SS Divs had almost no halftracks on their TO&E. The reason the SS Divisions had in 43 and in the case of the Tkpf to the wars end, Tiger Companies is the lack of experienced crews, look at the founding of SS Panzer units, they were pretty late to he party and had not the experienced personel the Heer had. The Tiger coys were build up to establish a experienced core of personel to build the tiger coys later up to btl. size to create the Korps level units they were planned to be. The Heer was also faster in that, also creating the first tiger units and in bigger number.

As a sidenote, the first crews of Tiger units were not elite crews but troublemakers and misfits. You can read it for example in the diaries of the 11. and 24. Pz divs. Each panzer Abteilung had to send some few men back to germany, as the military works no one gives his best men away, so the units used this opportunity to get rid of their oddballs....which were the founding stock for the Tiger Abteilungen.

The SS divisions look often impressive, having more equipment etc. fact is they had often units incorporated for later upsizing to independant korps level units. The main difference was regarding the panzer divs that they had 2 Panzergrenadier Btls. more than the Heer Divs.

I personaly also hope to see more diverse and exotic units, for example on soviet side M4 shermans, sapper regiments, etc. Same goes for the German side, the most intriguing for me will be how the hungarians will be ingame.


Oke you are making allot of illogical and ridiculous claims here,

why would the german army and the waffen SS put their oddbal tank crews which are unreliable in such an expensive piece of machinery like the TIger. which was 1 of the best tanks the German army had, and still at war end was very good for it's time? In all the documents i can find i can read that the tiger 1 needed the most experienced tank crews in order to handle the mechanic complexity of the tank and to get the most fighting effiency out of such an expensive vehicle. this was especially the case with the King Tiger. The germans always tried to get the most fighting effiency out of their troops. which you do not get by putting "oddballs" in 1 of your best tanks.....

The SS panzer divisions were late to the party. that is true. but in the limited time they saw service they showed exceptional fanaticism and fighting skill. an example of this is the 12th SS in normandy together with the 1st SS. which were crucial in keeping the falaise pocket open.



Sev Aug 5, 2018 @ 10:26am 
Originally posted by A Fist Full of Shekels:
Originally posted by Sev:


Oke you are making allot of illogical and ridiculous claims here,

why would the german army and the waffen SS put their oddbal tank crews which are unreliable in such an expensive piece of machinery like the TIger. which was 1 of the best tanks the German army had, and still at war end was very good for it's time? In all the documents i can find i can read that the tiger 1 needed the most experienced tank crews in order to handle the mechanic complexity of the tank and to get the most fighting effiency out of such an expensive vehicle. this was especially the case with the King Tiger. The germans always tried to get the most fighting effiency out of their troops. which you do not get by putting "oddballs" in 1 of your best tanks.....

The SS panzer divisions were late to the party. that is true. but in the limited time they saw service they showed exceptional fanaticism and fighting skill. an example of this is the 12th SS in normandy together with the 1st SS. which were crucial in keeping the falaise pocket open.
Neither are the claims illogical nor ridiculous.

You claimed the SS got Tigers because of their experience, while they were building up their first Panzer units in 1942, the Heer had a much bigger pool of experienced crews fielding in 1942 over 20 Panzer Divisions. Because of that the Panzer Abteilungen were ordered to send back crews to germany. Knowing they would not get the crews back they sent, normaly in the military not their best but combed out their oddballers. To quote: "Each Master Sgt. was glad about this singular opportunity to get rid of the worst types of all ranks. Months later we saw these "duds" grinning in brand new Tigers."
As i wrote before, no one in an army gives away his best personel. If you like it or not those guys were the founding base of the Heer Tiger units. The SS had to rely on their StuG and Panzerjäger crews but there was not much to draw from so initialy only one company for each Division was formed to be build up to Btl size later.

This doesnt mean they were inexperienced and they had to be retrained on the Tiger anyway so the mechanical complexity doesnt account for anything.

Further have the combat skills nothing to do with preference in new equipment. The SS had none and as Zetterling proved in his Normandy study they recieved even below average Pz 4 replacement numbers compared to Heer Divisions.
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Date Posted: Aug 4, 2018 @ 4:26pm
Posts: 14