Why do some Nazi Infantry use the MG34 and others use the MG42?

[Landsknecht und Deutscher Ritter]

Statistically it looks like they are close to the same. For Instance Panzergrenadiers get 2 MG42 but Fallschirmjager get 2 MG34. They have the same RoF, accuracy and range but the 2 MG34 carry 500 rounds more and the 2 MG42 have 1 more HE power. Very strange indeed. I know that the MG42 and MG34 were used at the same time but i'd think the mechanized units would be using them since the vehicles all mounted the MG34 and the Infantry focused units would be more likely to field the MG42. Also afaik the performance advantage would lie with the MG34 due to it being more accurate and better made IRL. But on the inverse the MG42 would be cheaper.

[tyke]

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

That's not a MK48. That's M249 converted to 7.62. Already been over this, sure you can design a LMG as 7.62 if sacrifice sustained fire output that can't be used as a MMG, like how LMG designation used to work. Post-WW2 LMGs have been intermediate cartridge. Many anomalies of weapons converted into full caliber LMGs, generally they sacrifice much else though.

The MK48 is a GPMG. It's actually designed to replace the U.S Army's current GPMG M240.

You have no idea what you're talking about. You don't even understand what the MK48 is.

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

The M1919 was used as a LMG, MMG and tank machine gun. How is it not a GPMG?

No it wasn't. There was no M1919 that could be used as a GPMG.
Already been over this. You're not reading.

During the war it became clear to the US military that the M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle, while portable, was utterly insufficient as a sustained fire weapon due to its fixed barrel and 20-round magazine. The M1919A4 was faster and cheaper to produce, but did not have the portability of a rifle to be easily deployed by infantry. Realising that producing an entirely new replacement machine gun would take years, the military decided that a stop-gap solution would be best, to adapt an already existing design. The M1919A6 was an attempt at such a solution, to parallel the designs of the German MG 34 and MG 42 machine guns, each of which were portable for a squad weapon and were effective at sustained fire.
The M1919A6 first saw combat service in the fall of 1943. It had a metal buttstock assembly that clamped to the backplate of the gun, and a front barrel bearing that incorporated both a muzzle booster and a bipod similar to that used on the M1918 BAR rifle. A lighter barrel than that of the M1919A4 was fitted, and a carry handle was attached to the barrel jacket to make it easier to carry. Previous designs could change the barrel, but it required field stripping the gun - the pistol grip back plate, bolt group and the trigger group all had to be removed before the barrel could finally be replaced, and this put the gun out of action for minutes, and risked losing and damaging parts in the field. The M1919A6 muzzle device allowed the gun crew to replace the barrel from the front, an improvement, but still an awkward procedure compared to other machine guns of the day. The M1919A6 was a heavy (32 pounds (15 kg)) and awkward weapon in comparison with the MG34 (26 pounds (12 kg)) and MG42 (25 pounds (11 kg)) and was eventually replaced in US service by the M60 machine gun (23.15 pounds (10.50 kg)) in the 1960s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1919_Browning_machine_gun
The M1919 Browning is a .30 caliber medium machine gun
Type Medium machine gun

http://modernfirearms.net/en/machineguns/u-s-a-machineguns/browning-m1917-m1919-eng/
The “light” M1919A6 machine gun was fitted with a detachable shoulder stock which was clamped onto a buffer tube, and a detachable bipod with adjustable legs which was clamped to the barrel jacket. Additionally, a carrying handle can be attached to the barrel jacket near the receiver. The M1919A6 barrels were of lighter profile, and thus badly suited for sustained fire.
Not capable of putting out sustained firepower to be a MMG.

http://modernfirearms.net/en/machineguns/u-s-a-machineguns/browning-m1917-m1919-eng/
The “light” M1919A6 machine gun was fitted with a detachable shoulder stock which was clamped onto a buffer tube, and a detachable bipod with adjustable legs which was clamped to the barrel jacket. Additionally, a carrying handle can be attached to the barrel jacket near the receiver. The M1919A6 barrels were of lighter profile, and thus badly suited for sustained fire.
Not capable of putting out sustained firepower to be a MMG.

MG34 was the world's first GPMG, as every source keeps trying to explain to you.
The M1919 was just a MMG. Converted to LMG it lost its MMG capability.

[tyke]

Nowhere is the MK48 listed as a LMG.
Not on the official site:
https://fnamerica.com/products/machine-guns/fn-mk-48-mod-1/
It is not described as LMG, because it is not. It is described as a Light WEIGHT Machine Gun - advertising that it is a GPMG that has low weight.

https://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=708
Here "Light Weight Machine Gun"
'Machine Gun'. Not a LMG. This is project to develop a 'Light Weight' Machine Gun. None of this, if you even had a point to make here, is anyway even relevant to what we are talking about of MG34.
https://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=8
For example M249 is a Light Machine Gun (LMG)
Mk48 is a GPMG
M249 is a LMG

the Mk48 is designed to be a GPMG - designed to replace current GPMGs in use
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_48_machine_gun
Mk 48 Mod 0
Type General-purpose machine gun
Mk 48 Mod 0
This is a 7.62×51mm NATO version of the Mk 46, used by USSOCOM when a heavier cartridge is required.[3] It is officially classified as an LWMG (light weight machine gun) and was developed as a replacement for the Mk 43 Mod 0/1. The M60-based machine guns are a great deal more portable than the heavier M240-based designs used elsewhere in the U.S. military in the infantry medium machine gun role. The M60-based designs have a long history of insufficient reliability, however. Trials conducted through the mid-1990s led the U.S. Army to replace its M60 with M240B GPMGs. The M240B weighs in at ~27.5 lb and is about 49 inches long with the standard barrel. Due to this extra weight and size NAVSPECWAR was reluctant to give up the increased portability of the M60 (~22.5 lb, 37.7 inches OAL with the shortest "Assault Barrel") designs, despite the M240's increased reliability. A request was put in for a new machine gun in 2001, and FN responded with a scaled-up version of the M249 weighing in at ~18.5 lb with an OAL of ~39.5". This new design achieved much better reliability than the M60-based weapons while bettering its light weight and maintaining the same manual of arms as the already in-use M249. USSOCOM was slated to begin receiving deliveries of the new gun in August 2003.[4]

[Landsknecht und Deutscher Ritter]

Originally posted by Haca:

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

That's not a MK48. That's M249 converted to 7.62. Already been over this, sure you can design a LMG as 7.62 if sacrifice sustained fire output that can't be used as a MMG, like how LMG designation used to work. Post-WW2 LMGs have been intermediate cartridge. Many anomalies of weapons converted into full caliber LMGs, generally they sacrifice much else though.

The MK48 is a GPMG. It's actually designed to replace the U.S Army's current GPMG M240.

You have no idea what you're talking about. You don't even understand what the MK48 is.

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

The M1919 was used as a LMG, MMG and tank machine gun. How is it not a GPMG?

No it wasn't. There was no M1919 that could be used as a GPMG.
Already been over this. You're not reading.

During the war it became clear to the US military that the M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle, while portable, was utterly insufficient as a sustained fire weapon due to its fixed barrel and 20-round magazine. The M1919A4 was faster and cheaper to produce, but did not have the portability of a rifle to be easily deployed by infantry. Realising that producing an entirely new replacement machine gun would take years, the military decided that a stop-gap solution would be best, to adapt an already existing design. The M1919A6 was an attempt at such a solution, to parallel the designs of the German MG 34 and MG 42 machine guns, each of which were portable for a squad weapon and were effective at sustained fire.
The M1919A6 first saw combat service in the fall of 1943. It had a metal buttstock assembly that clamped to the backplate of the gun, and a front barrel bearing that incorporated both a muzzle booster and a bipod similar to that used on the M1918 BAR rifle. A lighter barrel than that of the M1919A4 was fitted, and a carry handle was attached to the barrel jacket to make it easier to carry. Previous designs could change the barrel, but it required field stripping the gun - the pistol grip back plate, bolt group and the trigger group all had to be removed before the barrel could finally be replaced, and this put the gun out of action for minutes, and risked losing and damaging parts in the field. The M1919A6 muzzle device allowed the gun crew to replace the barrel from the front, an improvement, but still an awkward procedure compared to other machine guns of the day. The M1919A6 was a heavy (32 pounds (15 kg)) and awkward weapon in comparison with the MG34 (26 pounds (12 kg)) and MG42 (25 pounds (11 kg)) and was eventually replaced in US service by the M60 machine gun (23.15 pounds (10.50 kg)) in the 1960s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1919_Browning_machine_gun
The M1919 Browning is a .30 caliber medium machine gun
Type Medium machine gun

http://modernfirearms.net/en/machineguns/u-s-a-machineguns/browning-m1917-m1919-eng/
The “light” M1919A6 machine gun was fitted with a detachable shoulder stock which was clamped onto a buffer tube, and a detachable bipod with adjustable legs which was clamped to the barrel jacket. Additionally, a carrying handle can be attached to the barrel jacket near the receiver. The M1919A6 barrels were of lighter profile, and thus badly suited for sustained fire.
Not capable of putting out sustained firepower to be a MMG.

http://modernfirearms.net/en/machineguns/u-s-a-machineguns/browning-m1917-m1919-eng/
The “light” M1919A6 machine gun was fitted with a detachable shoulder stock which was clamped onto a buffer tube, and a detachable bipod with adjustable legs which was clamped to the barrel jacket. Additionally, a carrying handle can be attached to the barrel jacket near the receiver. The M1919A6 barrels were of lighter profile, and thus badly suited for sustained fire.
Not capable of putting out sustained firepower to be a MMG.

MG34 was the world's first GPMG, as every source keeps trying to explain to you.
The M1919 was just a MMG. Converted to LMG it lost its MMG capability.

The Mk 48 Mod 0 is a gas-operated, air-"cooled, fully automatic belt-fed machine gun. The design is based on an early 7.62×51mm NATO prototype of the FN Minimi, modified to be a scaled-up version of the 5.56 mm Mk 46 Mod 0."

This is from Wikipedia. The 762 Minimi is functionally the same gun beyond some unimportant features for SOCOM. You are not only wrong but your double standard is obvious since you're claiming the FN MAG and M60 are derrived from the MG34 because they're classed as GPMGs. yet the same design is somehow separate because of the absence of a carrying handle and a US military designation?

[tyke]

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

The Mk 48 Mod 0 is a gas-operated, air-"cooled, fully automatic belt-fed machine gun. The design is based on an early 7.62×51mm NATO prototype of the FN Minimi, modified to be a scaled-up version of the 5.56 mm Mk 46 Mod 0."

This is from Wikipedia. The 762 Minimi is functionally the same gun beyond some unimportant features for SOCOM. You are not only wrong but your double standard is obvious since you're claiming the FN MAG and M60 are derrived from the MG34 because they're classed as GPMGs. yet the same design is somehow separate because of the absence of a carrying handle and a US military designation?

And it's not a LMG lol.
They don't say it's a LMG.
FN Herstal on their advertising bragging about how light weight it is don't say it's an LMG.
No site on the internet recognises it as a LMG.

I can make an argument that it's an LMG. It basically is a 7.62 LMG because GPMG role is becoming obsolete so who cares if it has to sacrifice some effect at 600m compared to a purpose-built GPMG and firearm engineering is now so advanced this thing probably performs just about aswell as any 5.56 purpose-built LMG. Issue is, little Usagi, that we are discussing how the MG34 changed everything for the past half century.

But it's nice that you're now finally realising the MK48 is a GPMG, not a LMG.

"Minimi is functionally the same gun"
No.
There is alot more to designing guns than you think.

The FN MAG and M60 are descendants of the MG34 as they are cpoying the MG34. They are GPMGs, MG34 started this.
You can read about this anywhere.

https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/mg-34/
The U.S. M-60—an adaptation of the WW II German FG-42 Fallschirmjager Gewehr paratrooper rifle—and the German HK-21, a belt-fed variant of the G-3 Battle Rifle, also fall into the same broad category. In each case, the contemporary weapon can trace its genesis back to the WW II-era German MG-34.

NAZI BIAS! TACTICAL-LIFE.COM ARE NAZIS!
Have you noticed this entire time you haven't found one source, not one article, not one single ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ anything that agrees with you or supports your argument in any way, while I'm drowning you in the whole world agreeing with me that the MG34 was an amazing and revolutionary firearm and the M1919 was not a GPMG?

Even if you weren't wrong, none of this crap about 21st century small arms has anything to do with:

You being wrong that MG34 wasn't the first GPMG and revolutionised Machine Gun design.

You being wrong that M1919 was a GPMG.

How the MG34 changed the trend.

Let's say from today we're making the switch and entirely abandonning 5.56 and now we make all purpose-built LMGs in full caliber.
How long has it been?
80 years? Sure, the MG34 isn't important, it only created GPMGs as we knew them and made all purpose-built LMGs 5.56 as otherwise 7.62 can be adapted to fulfill both LMG and MMG role.

Some more of the world disagreeing with you. I guess THEY MUST ALL BE NAZIS!!!

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/world-war-ii/mg42-important-machine-gun-second-world-warx.html
-machine-gun-second-world-warx.html
The German Maschinengewehr 42, or MG42, was one of the best machine-guns of the war, both in combat and in ease of production. It set the standard for machine-guns in the years that followed, and as such was the most important machine-gun of the war.

...
Battlefield Practicality
The feed system provided one of the MG42’s major advantages – its high rate of fire. At 1500 rounds per minute, it was significantly better than the MG34’s 900 rounds and nearly double the firepower of other predecessor weapons. It was a devastating weapon, invaluable for providing the shock and damage needed in the early phases of an assault. The sound of the gun alone made it an intimidating beast.

MORE ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ NAZI BIAS! ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ WARHISTORYONLINE.COM NAZIS SYMPATHIZERS!

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/mg-34-the-universal-machine-gun-concept/
The MG34 was the first German implementation of the universal machine gun concept – and really the first such fielded by any army. The idea was to have a single weapon which could be used as a light machine gun, heavy machine gun, vehicle gun, fortification gun, and antiaircraft gun. The MG34 was designed to be light enough for use as an LMG, to have a high enough rate of fire to serve as an antiaircraft gun, to be compact and flexible enough for use in vehicles and fortifications, and to be mounted on a complex and advanced tripod for use as a heavy machine gun.

OMG MORE NAZIS! NAZIS EVERYWHERE!!
FORGOTTENWEAPON.COM ARE NAZIS!

http://modernfirearms.net/en/machineguns/germany-machineguns/mg-34-eng/
MG-34 also is nototious for being the first ever true Universal machine gun, that could be used as a light machine gun from bipod, as a sustained fire, medium machine gun on tripod, as a tank or AA gun.
...
But the most major advantage of the MG-34 was its versatility, and it set the trend for numerous latter designs.

http://modernfirearms.net/en/machine-guns/
In 1934 Germany released the first mass produced “Universal” machine gun, Mg34 (followed by Mg42, later – Mg43). These can be used as a “light” MG on a bipod or as a “heavy” one on a tripod against ground or air targets. (In the German Wehrmacht system, MG’s were designated heavy or light by usage, the caliber remained the same, as opposed to the West). The German MGs set the trend, so almost all modern “medium” MGs such as Belgian MAG, American M60, and the Russian PKM may be used on a bipod or tripod, as needed.

NOT MODERNFIREARMS.NET TOO!!

https://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=63
Maschinengewehr Modell 34 (MG34) General Purpose Machine Gun (GPMG)
The further evolution of this line then begat the storied MG34 - known by its long-form name of "Maschinegewehr 34" - and combined the best attributes of all preceding models including the MG30 and MG15 lines. The resulting system was SO REVOLUTIONARY that it produced the first true instance of a "General Purpose Machine Gun" - a category of machine gun detailing its multi-role functionality, the weapon capable of adapting to several roles without change to its core design.

MILITARYFACTORY.COM ! THEY'RE HIDING IN THE JUNGLES!! EVERYONE IS FULL OF NAZI BIAS!!

https://ospreypublishing.com/mg-34-and-mg-42-machine-guns
With the MG 34, the German Wehrmacht introduced an entirely new concept in automatic firepower - the general-purpose machine gun (GPMG). In itself the MG 34 was an excellent weapon: an air-cooled, recoil-operated machine gun that could deliver killing firepower at ranges of more than 1,000m. Yet simply by changing its mount and feed mechanism, the operator could radically transform its function. On its standard bipod it was a light machine gun, ideal for infantry assaults; on a tripod it could serve as a sustained-fire medium machine gun. During World War II, the MG 34 was superseded by a new GPMG - the MG 42. More efficient to manufacture and more robust, it had a blistering 1,200rpm rate of fire. Nicknamed ‘Hitler's buzzsaw' by Allied troops, it was arguably the finest all-round GPMG EVER PRODUCED, and alongside the MG 34 it inflicted heavy casualties.

OMG NOT OSPREY PUBLISHING!!
ALL THIS TIME ONE OF THE MOST RESPECTED PUBLISHERS OF MILITARY HISTORY HAVE JUST BEEN PUBLISHING NAZI BIAS???





https://ospreypublishing.com/mg-34-and-mg-42-machine-guns
With the MG 34, the German Wehrmacht introduced an entirely new concept in automatic firepower - the general-purpose machine gun (GPMG). In itself the MG 34 was an excellent weapon:...Nicknamed ‘Hitler's buzzsaw' by Allied troops, it was arguably the finest all-round GPMG EVER PRODUCED, and alongside the MG 34 it inflicted heavy casualties.


Nicknamed ‘Hitler's buzzsaw' by Allied troops, it was arguably the finest all-round GPMG EVER PRODUCED,

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

The MG42 was worse than the MG34 both were mostly mediocre in terms of combat performance. They're just budget options for poor nations who get their soldiers killed a lot like the Nazis did. Having the 500-600rpm that most modern machine guns use is optimal.

https://OSPREYPUBLISHING.com/mg-34-and-mg-42-machine-guns
"ARGUABLY THE FINEST ALL-ROUND GPMG.......

EVER PRODUCED,"

[Landsknecht und Deutscher Ritter]

Originally posted by Haca:

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

The Mk 48 Mod 0 is a gas-operated, air-"cooled, fully automatic belt-fed machine gun. The design is based on an early 7.62×51mm NATO prototype of the FN Minimi, modified to be a scaled-up version of the 5.56 mm Mk 46 Mod 0."

This is from Wikipedia. The 762 Minimi is functionally the same gun beyond some unimportant features for SOCOM. You are not only wrong but your double standard is obvious since you're claiming the FN MAG and M60 are derrived from the MG34 because they're classed as GPMGs. yet the same design is somehow separate because of the absence of a carrying handle and a US military designation?

And it's not a LMG lol.
They don't say it's a LMG.
FN Herstal on their advertising bragging about how light weight it is don't say it's an LMG.
No site on the internet recognises it as a LMG.

I can make an argument that it's an LMG. It basically is a 7.62 LMG because GPMG role is becoming obsolete so who cares if it has to sacrifice some effect at 600m compared to a purpose-built GPMG and firearm engineering is now so advanced this thing probably performs just about aswell as any 5.56 purpose-built LMG. Issue is, little Usagi, that we are discussing how the MG34 changed everything for the past half century.

But it's nice that you're now finally realising the MK48 is a GPMG, not a LMG.

"Minimi is functionally the same gun"
No.
There is alot more to designing guns than you think.

The FN MAG and M60 are descendants of the MG34 as they are cpoying the MG34. They are GPMGs, MG34 started this.
You can read about this anywhere.

https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/mg-34/
The U.S. M-60—an adaptation of the WW II German FG-42 Fallschirmjager Gewehr paratrooper rifle—and the German HK-21, a belt-fed variant of the G-3 Battle Rifle, also fall into the same broad category. In each case, the contemporary weapon can trace its genesis back to the WW II-era German MG-34.

NAZI BIAS! TACTICAL-LIFE.COM ARE NAZIS!
Have you noticed this entire time you haven't found one source, not one article, not one single ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ anything that agrees with you or supports your argument in any way, while I'm drowning you in the whole world agreeing with me that the MG34 was an amazing and revolutionary firearm and the M1919 was not a GPMG?

Even if you weren't wrong, none of this crap about 21st century small arms has anything to do with:

You being wrong that MG34 wasn't the first GPMG and revolutionised Machine Gun design.

You being wrong that M1919 was a GPMG.

How the MG34 changed the trend.

Let's say from today we're making the switch and entirely abandonning 5.56 and now we make all purpose-built LMGs in full caliber.
How long has it been?
80 years? Sure, the MG34 isn't important, it only created GPMGs as we knew them and made all purpose-built LMGs 5.56 as otherwise 7.62 can be adapted to fulfill both LMG and MMG role.

Some more of the world disagreeing with you. I guess THEY MUST ALL BE NAZIS!!!

https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/mg-34/
The U.S. M-60—an adaptation of the WW II German FG-42 Fallschirmjager Gewehr paratrooper rifle—and the German HK-21, a belt-fed variant of the G-3 Battle Rifle, also fall into the same broad category. In each case, the contemporary weapon can trace its genesis back to the WW II-era German MG-34.

NAZI BIAS! TACTICAL-LIFE.COM ARE NAZIS!

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/world-war-ii/mg42-important-machine-gun-second-world-warx.html
-machine-gun-second-world-warx.html
The German Maschinengewehr 42, or MG42, was one of the best machine-guns of the war, both in combat and in ease of production. It set the standard for machine-guns in the years that followed, and as such was the most important machine-gun of the war.

...
Battlefield Practicality
The feed system provided one of the MG42’s major advantages – its high rate of fire. At 1500 rounds per minute, it was significantly better than the MG34’s 900 rounds and nearly double the firepower of other predecessor weapons. It was a devastating weapon, invaluable for providing the shock and damage needed in the early phases of an assault. The sound of the gun alone made it an intimidating beast.

MORE ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ NAZI BIAS! ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ WARHISTORYONLINE.COM NAZIS SYMPATHIZERS!

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/mg-34-the-universal-machine-gun-concept/
The MG34 was the first German implementation of the universal machine gun concept – and really the first such fielded by any army. The idea was to have a single weapon which could be used as a light machine gun, heavy machine gun, vehicle gun, fortification gun, and antiaircraft gun. The MG34 was designed to be light enough for use as an LMG, to have a high enough rate of fire to serve as an antiaircraft gun, to be compact and flexible enough for use in vehicles and fortifications, and to be mounted on a complex and advanced tripod for use as a heavy machine gun.

OMG MORE NAZIS! NAZIS EVERYWHERE!!
FORGOTTENWEAPON.COM ARE NAZIS!

http://modernfirearms.net/en/machineguns/germany-machineguns/mg-34-eng/
MG-34 also is nototious for being the first ever true Universal machine gun, that could be used as a light machine gun from bipod, as a sustained fire, medium machine gun on tripod, as a tank or AA gun.
...
But the most major advantage of the MG-34 was its versatility, and it set the trend for numerous latter designs.

http://modernfirearms.net/en/machine-guns/
In 1934 Germany released the first mass produced “Universal” machine gun, Mg34 (followed by Mg42, later – Mg43). These can be used as a “light” MG on a bipod or as a “heavy” one on a tripod against ground or air targets. (In the German Wehrmacht system, MG’s were designated heavy or light by usage, the caliber remained the same, as opposed to the West). The German MGs set the trend, so almost all modern “medium” MGs such as Belgian MAG, American M60, and the Russian PKM may be used on a bipod or tripod, as needed.

NOT MODERNFIREARMS.NET TOO!!

https://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=63
Maschinengewehr Modell 34 (MG34) General Purpose Machine Gun (GPMG)
The further evolution of this line then begat the storied MG34 - known by its long-form name of "Maschinegewehr 34" - and combined the best attributes of all preceding models including the MG30 and MG15 lines. The resulting system was SO REVOLUTIONARY that it produced the first true instance of a "General Purpose Machine Gun" - a category of machine gun detailing its multi-role functionality, the weapon capable of adapting to several roles without change to its core design.
THEY'RE HIDING IN THE JUNGLES!! EVERYONE IS FULL OF NAZI BIAS!!

https://ospreypublishing.com/mg-34-and-mg-42-machine-guns
With the MG 34, the German Wehrmacht introduced an entirely new concept in automatic firepower - the general-purpose machine gun (GPMG). In itself the MG 34 was an excellent weapon: an air-cooled, recoil-operated machine gun that could deliver killing firepower at ranges of more than 1,000m. Yet simply by changing its mount and feed mechanism, the operator could radically transform its function. On its standard bipod it was a light machine gun, ideal for infantry assaults; on a tripod it could serve as a sustained-fire medium machine gun. During World War II, the MG 34 was superseded by a new GPMG - the MG 42. More efficient to manufacture and more robust, it had a blistering 1,200rpm rate of fire. Nicknamed ‘Hitler's buzzsaw' by Allied troops, it was arguably the finest all-round GPMG EVER PRODUCED, and alongside the MG 34 it inflicted heavy casualties.

OMG NOT OSPREY PUBLISHING!!
ALL THIS TIME ONE OF THE MOST RESPECTED PUBLISHERS OF MILITARY HISTORY HAVE JUST BEEN WRITING NAZI BIAS???

Your entire claim just relies on quote mining and whining about terminology. The M1919 is a GPMG. If it wasn't you'd be able to list off something revolutionary about the MG34 that the M1919 wasn't already doing.

In fact GPMG was just a classification to circumvent German arms treaties after WW1 functionally the Hotchkiss M1914, Colt 1895, and MG08/15 had already fulfilled the same multipurpose role being used as LMG, HMG, AA guns and vehicle guns.

And BTW the MK48 and Minimi 762 are functionally the same gun. The MK48 is the SOCOM designation with very superficial modifications for their role. Similar to the MK46 and Minimi 5.56.

[tyke]

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

Your entire claim just relies on quote mining

https://ospreypublishing.com/mg-34-and-mg-42-machine-guns
"With the MG 34, the German Wehrmacht introduced an entirely new concept in automatic firepower - the general-purpose machine gun (GPMG)."
https://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=63
"The resulting system was so revolutionary that it produced the first true instance of a "General Purpose Machine Gun""
http://modernfirearms.net/en/machineguns/germany-machineguns/mg-34-eng/
"MG-34 also is nototious for being the first ever true Universal machine gun"
http://modernfirearms.net/en/machine-guns/
"In 1934 Germany released the first mass produced “Universal” machine gun, Mg34"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_34
"It introduced an entirely new concept in automatic firepower – the Einheitsmaschinengewehr (Universal machine gun) – and is generally considered the world's first general-purpose machine gun (GPMG)."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General-purpose_machine_gun
"The general-purpose machine gun (GPMG) originated with the MG 34"
http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Equal-Inf-Sqds.pdf
"The MG 34 was the world's first General Purpose Machine Gun (GPMG)"

I duno if there's much context to take such statements out of.

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

and whining about terminology. The M1919 is a GPMG. If it wasn't you'd be able to list off something revolutionary about the MG34 that the M1919 wasn't already doing.

http://modernfirearms.net/en/machineguns/u-s-a-machineguns/browning-m1917-m1919-eng/
The “light” M1919A6 machine gun was fitted with a detachable shoulder stock which was clamped onto a buffer tube, and a detachable bipod with adjustable legs which was clamped to the barrel jacket. Additionally, a carrying handle can be attached to the barrel jacket near the receiver. The M1919A6 barrels were of lighter profile, and thus badly suited for sustained fire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1919_Browning_machine_gun
M1919A6
During the war it became clear to the US military that the M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle, while portable, was utterly insufficient as a sustained fire weapon due to its fixed barrel and 20-round magazine. The M1919A4 was faster and cheaper to produce, but did not have the portability of a rifle to be easily deployed by infantry. Realising that producing an entirely new replacement machine gun would take years, the military decided that a stop-gap solution would be best, to adapt an already existing design. The M1919A6 was an attempt at such a solution, to parallel the designs of the German MG 34 and MG 42 machine guns, each of which were portable for a squad weapon and were effective at sustained fire.
The M1919A6 first saw combat service in the fall of 1943. It had a metal buttstock assembly that clamped to the backplate of the gun, and a front barrel bearing that incorporated both a muzzle booster and a bipod similar to that used on the M1918 BAR rifle. A lighter barrel than that of the M1919A4 was fitted, and a carry handle was attached to the barrel jacket to make it easier to carry. Previous designs could change the barrel, but it required field stripping the gun - the pistol grip back plate, bolt group and the trigger group all had to be removed before the barrel could finally be replaced, and this put the gun out of action for minutes, and risked losing and damaging parts in the field. The M1919A6 muzzle device allowed the gun crew to replace the barrel from the front, an improvement, but still an awkward procedure compared to other machine guns of the day. The M1919A6 was a heavy (32 pounds (15 kg)) and awkward weapon in comparison with the MG34 (26 pounds (12 kg)) and MG42 (25 pounds (11 kg)) and was eventually replaced in US service by the M60 machine gun (23.15 pounds (10.50 kg)) in the 1960s.

https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/mg-34/
The U.S. M-60—an adaptation of the WW II German FG-42 Fallschirmjager Gewehr paratrooper rifle—and the German HK-21, a belt-fed variant of the G-3 Battle Rifle, also fall into the same broad category. In each case, the contemporary weapon can trace its genesis back to the WW II-era German MG-34.

[Landsknecht und Deutscher Ritter]

Originally posted by Haca:

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

Your entire claim just relies on quote mining

https://ospreypublishing.com/mg-34-and-mg-42-machine-guns
"With the MG 34, the German Wehrmacht introduced an entirely new concept in automatic firepower - the general-purpose machine gun (GPMG)."
https://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=63
"The resulting system was so revolutionary that it produced the first true instance of a "General Purpose Machine Gun""
http://modernfirearms.net/en/machineguns/germany-machineguns/mg-34-eng/
"MG-34 also is nototious for being the first ever true Universal machine gun"
http://modernfirearms.net/en/machine-guns/
"In 1934 Germany released the first mass produced “Universal” machine gun, Mg34"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_34
"It introduced an entirely new concept in automatic firepower – the Einheitsmaschinengewehr (Universal machine gun) – and is generally considered the world's first general-purpose machine gun (GPMG)."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General-purpose_machine_gun
"The general-purpose machine gun (GPMG) originated with the MG 34"
http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Equal-Inf-Sqds.pdf
"The MG 34 was the world's first General Purpose Machine Gun (GPMG)"

I duno if there's much context to take such statements out of.

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

and whining about terminology. The M1919 is a GPMG. If it wasn't you'd be able to list off something revolutionary about the MG34 that the M1919 wasn't already doing.

http://modernfirearms.net/en/machineguns/u-s-a-machineguns/browning-m1917-m1919-eng/
The “light” M1919A6 machine gun was fitted with a detachable shoulder stock which was clamped onto a buffer tube, and a detachable bipod with adjustable legs which was clamped to the barrel jacket. Additionally, a carrying handle can be attached to the barrel jacket near the receiver. The M1919A6 barrels were of lighter profile, and thus badly suited for sustained fire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1919_Browning_machine_gun
M1919A6
During the war it became clear to the US military that the M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle, while portable, was utterly insufficient as a sustained fire weapon due to its fixed barrel and 20-round magazine. The M1919A4 was faster and cheaper to produce, but did not have the portability of a rifle to be easily deployed by infantry. Realising that producing an entirely new replacement machine gun would take years, the military decided that a stop-gap solution would be best, to adapt an already existing design. The M1919A6 was an attempt at such a solution, to parallel the designs of the German MG 34 and MG 42 machine guns, each of which were portable for a squad weapon and were effective at sustained fire.
The M1919A6 first saw combat service in the fall of 1943. It had a metal buttstock assembly that clamped to the backplate of the gun, and a front barrel bearing that incorporated both a muzzle booster and a bipod similar to that used on the M1918 BAR rifle. A lighter barrel than that of the M1919A4 was fitted, and a carry handle was attached to the barrel jacket to make it easier to carry. Previous designs could change the barrel, but it required field stripping the gun - the pistol grip back plate, bolt group and the trigger group all had to be removed before the barrel could finally be replaced, and this put the gun out of action for minutes, and risked losing and damaging parts in the field. The M1919A6 muzzle device allowed the gun crew to replace the barrel from the front, an improvement, but still an awkward procedure compared to other machine guns of the day. The M1919A6 was a heavy (32 pounds (15 kg)) and awkward weapon in comparison with the MG34 (26 pounds (12 kg)) and MG42 (25 pounds (11 kg)) and was eventually replaced in US service by the M60 machine gun (23.15 pounds (10.50 kg)) in the 1960s.

https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/mg-34/
The U.S. M-60—an adaptation of the WW II German FG-42 Fallschirmjager Gewehr paratrooper rifle—and the German HK-21, a belt-fed variant of the G-3 Battle Rifle, also fall into the same broad category. In each case, the contemporary weapon can trace its genesis back to the WW II-era German MG-34.

The M60 is based off the Lewis Gun. The FG42 was also based off the Lewis Gun but they're otherwise unrelated to each other and certainly not the MG34.

30lbs isn't Awkward for a LMG. Just look at the M240 for instance. The weight shaving on Nazi machine guns meant they were much less reliable. And US infantrymen were healthier and stronger so having 5lbs extra wasn't as much of an issue as with Nazi troops. For a similar reference look at the M240 vs M60.

Also changing the barrel from the front is how all modern machine guns operate. The person who wrote that has no clue what they're talking about. The MG34 and 42 had their flimsy barrels expand because heat is generated in the receiver and warps the barrel easily back there. That made it harder and less efficient to change the barrel.

I've seen people playing video games who don't understand the assistant gunner was the guy who changed the barrel and they erroneously assume that you have to expose yourself from cover at the front barrel change.

In reality your squad would cover for a barrel change anyways and if they couldn't you could just as easily shift position for the seconds needed to swap barrels.

Also the MK48 and MK43 are light machine guns.

[Thork]

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

I've seen people playing video games who don't understand the assistant gunner was the guy who changed the barrel and they erroneously assume that you have to expose yourself from cover at the front barrel change.

In reality your squad would cover for a barrel change anyways and if they couldn't you could just as easily shift position for the seconds needed to swap barrels.

As someone that actually received training on a MG3, I can assure you that the mechanism is very easy, fast and useful.
Seconds needed for a front swap? Covering squad? Easy shift position?
Talk about video games...

[Landsknecht und Deutscher Ritter]

Originally posted by Thork:

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

I've seen people playing video games who don't understand the assistant gunner was the guy who changed the barrel and they erroneously assume that you have to expose yourself from cover at the front barrel change.

In reality your squad would cover for a barrel change anyways and if they couldn't you could just as easily shift position for the seconds needed to swap barrels.

As someone that actually received training on a MG3, I can assure you that the mechanism is very easy, fast and useful.
Seconds needed for a front swap? Covering squad? Easy shift position?
Talk about video games...

Oh yeah? Did you get mesothelioma from the asbestos mitten you have to wear in order to not burn yourself? Don't try to insult my intelligence. One of the primary reasons the MG3 was dumped by all these countries is due to its barrel change system being so inefficient and awkward. There's no excuse either the Czechs developed a quick change Barrel 20 years earlier that is in use by every nation on the planet.

Especially since you apparently thing the MG3 is a single man weapon despite the entire squad being used to support it. A machine gunner would never be carrying a spare barrel as that is the assistant Gunner's job.

[Thork]

How would you burn yourself? There is a tool to pull the barrel.
You can very well operate it by yourself and do all of that even when your squad is dead.

[tyke]

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

The M60 is based off the Lewis Gun. The FG42 was also based off the Lewis Gun but they're otherwise unrelated to each other and certainly not the MG34.

https://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=122
"M60 Development
The M60 actually has its origins in several respected German machine guns of World War 2. The excellent belt-fed MG42 was a standard part of the German Army from 1942 to 1959, replacing the expensive yet equally-successful MG34 general purpose machine gun.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M60_machine_gun
"The M60 was designed for mass production, just like the MG42 it was based on."

https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/mg-34/
The U.S. M-60—an adaptation of the WW II German FG-42 Fallschirmjager Gewehr paratrooper rifle—and the German HK-21, a belt-fed variant of the G-3 Battle Rifle, also fall into the same broad category. In each case, the contemporary weapon can trace its genesis back to the WW II-era German MG-34.

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

blabla how is mg34 a gpmg?

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Equal-Inf-Sqds.pdf

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

Also the MK48 and MK43 are light machine guns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M60_machine_gun#M60E4/Mk_43_Mod_0/1
M60 machine gun
Type General-purpose machine gun
M60E4/Mk 43 Mod 0/1
The M60E4 or Mk 43 is a 7.62×51mm NATO general-purpose machine gun.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_48_machine_gun
Mk 48 Mod 0
Type General-purpose machine gun

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General-purpose_machine_gun
A general-purpose machine gun (GPMG) is an air-cooled, fully automatic weapon that can be adapted to light machine gun and medium machine gun roles.[1] A GPMG weapon will typically feature a quick-change barrel, configuration for mounting on bipods, tripods, and vehicles as infantry support weapons, and calibered to fire full-powered rifle cartridges such as the 7.62×51mm NATO, 7.62×54mmR, 7.5×54mm French, 7.5×55mm Swiss, and 7.92×57mm Mauser.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_machine_gun
Characteristics
Whilst early light machine guns fired full calibre service ammunition, modern light machine guns often fire smaller-calibre cartridges than medium machine guns, and are usually lighter and more compact.

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

The MG42 was worse than the MG34 both were mostly mediocre in terms of combat performance. They're just budget options for poor nations who get their soldiers killed a lot like the Nazis did. Having the 500-600rpm that most modern machine guns use is optimal.

https://ospreypublishing.com/mg-34-and-mg-42-machine-guns
With the MG 34, the German Wehrmacht introduced an entirely new concept in automatic firepower - the general-purpose machine gun (GPMG). In itself the MG 34 was an excellent weapon:...Nicknamed ‘Hitler's buzzsaw' by Allied troops, it was arguably the finest all-round GMPG ever produced, and alongside the MG 34 it inflicted heavy casualties.

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

mediocre in terms of combat performance.

https://ospreypublishing.com/mg-34-and-mg-42-machine-guns

"ARGUABLY ONE OF THE FINEST ALL-ROUND GPMGS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-QFj59PON4

EVER PRODUCED"

[Landsknecht und Deutscher Ritter]

Originally posted by Thork:

How would you burn yourself? There is a tool to pull the barrel.
You can very well operate it by yourself and do all of that even when your squad is dead.

please show me this barrel changing tool.

[Landsknecht und Deutscher Ritter]

Originally posted by Haca:

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

The M60 is based off the Lewis Gun. The FG42 was also based off the Lewis Gun but they're otherwise unrelated to each other and certainly not the MG34.

https://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=122
"M60 Development
The M60 actually has its origins in several respected German machine guns of World War 2. The excellent belt-fed MG42 was a standard part of the German Army from 1942 to 1959, replacing the expensive yet equally-successful MG34 general purpose machine gun.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M60_machine_gun
"The M60 was designed for mass production, just like the MG42 it was based on."

https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/mg-34/
The U.S. M-60—an adaptation of the WW II German FG-42 Fallschirmjager Gewehr paratrooper rifle—and the German HK-21, a belt-fed variant of the G-3 Battle Rifle, also fall into the same broad category. In each case, the contemporary weapon can trace its genesis back to the WW II-era German MG-34.

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

blabla how is mg34 a gpmg?

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Equal-Inf-Sqds.pdf

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

Also the MK48 and MK43 are light machine guns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M60_machine_gun#M60E4/Mk_43_Mod_0/1
M60 machine gun
Type General-purpose machine gun
M60E4/Mk 43 Mod 0/1
The M60E4 or Mk 43 is a 7.62×51mm NATO general-purpose machine gun.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_48_machine_gun
Mk 48 Mod 0
Type General-purpose machine gun

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General-purpose_machine_gun
A general-purpose machine gun (GPMG) is an air-cooled, fully automatic weapon that can be adapted to light machine gun and medium machine gun roles.[1] A GPMG weapon will typically feature a quick-change barrel, configuration for mounting on bipods, tripods, and vehicles as infantry support weapons, and calibered to fire full-powered rifle cartridges such as the 7.62×51mm NATO, 7.62×54mmR, 7.5×54mm French, 7.5×55mm Swiss, and 7.92×57mm Mauser.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_machine_gun
Characteristics
Whilst early light machine guns fired full calibre service ammunition, modern light machine guns often fire smaller-calibre cartridges than medium machine guns, and are usually lighter and more compact.

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

The MG42 was worse than the MG34 both were mostly mediocre in terms of combat performance. They're just budget options for poor nations who get their soldiers killed a lot like the Nazis did. Having the 500-600rpm that most modern machine guns use is optimal.

https://ospreypublishing.com/mg-34-and-mg-42-machine-guns
With the MG 34, the German Wehrmacht introduced an entirely new concept in automatic firepower - the general-purpose machine gun (GPMG). In itself the MG 34 was an excellent weapon:...Nicknamed ‘Hitler's buzzsaw' by Allied troops, it was arguably the finest all-round GMPG ever produced, and alongside the MG 34 it inflicted heavy casualties.

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

mediocre in terms of combat performance.

https://ospreypublishing.com/mg-34-and-mg-42-machine-guns

"ARGUABLY ONE OF THE FINEST ALL-ROUND GPMGS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-QFj59PON4

EVER PRODUCED"

Yes you can quote people who don't know what they're talking about. We've already established that your claims rely on vague ignorant statements in lieu of function, performance or expertise.

Please show how the M60 is based off the FG-42.

How is the MG-34 the first GPMG when the M1919 predates it and is superior?

The MK48 is a LMG by FN's own definition along with SOCOM.

The MG34 and MG42 are mediocre. Also the MG42 cycles at 950rpm.

You can keep on repeating the same tripe from Wikipedia but the facts don't change. You're arguing from conjecture and your own bias. All I've done is present facts.

[tyke]

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

Yes you can quote people who don't know what they're talking about.

OH ♥♥♥♥. Teen Male Usagi is going to lay it down. He's going to wreck some foolish Pleb buttercreamers who

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

don't know what they're talking about

such as

https://ospreypublishing.com - The most respectable Publisher for Military History.

Operation Barbarossa the Complete Organisational and Statistical Analysis, and Military Simulation of the books:
Volume I – The Concepts and General Structure of the Integrated Land and Air Resource Model (Part I), and The Methodology Used for Analysing Weapon System Effectiveness (Part II).
Volume IIA – The German Armed Forces (Wehrmacht), Mobilisation and War Economy from June to December 1941 (Part I).
Volume IIB – The German Armed Forces (Wehrmacht), Mobilisation and War Economy from June to December 1941 Part II).
Volume IIIA – The Soviet Armed Forces, Mobilisation and War Economy from June to December 1941 (Part I).
Volume IIIB – The Soviet Armed Forces, Mobilisation and War Economy from June to December 1941 (Part II).
Volume IV – The Finnish, Rumanian, Hungarian, Slovakian and Italian Armed Forces Involved on the East Front in 1941.
Volume V – Relative Overall Combat Proficiency (ROCP): the ROCP of Soviet and Axis Forces on the East Front during WWII.
Volume VI – The Science of War Gaming, and Operation Barbarossa, the Complete Operational – Strategic Level Simulation from 22nd June to 31st December 1941.

https://en.wikipedia.org/

http://modernfirearms.net/

https://www.militaryfactory.com

https://www.tactical-life.com

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/

Who all just happen to have Nazi Bias and all just happen to

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

don't know what they're talking about

all in the same way.

VERSUS

Steam Disccusion user - TEeN MaLe uSAgI


I'm just so excited I'm going to skip ahead and check out the sources he uses to get a preview of this incoming ownage.

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

All I've done is present facts.

Look over everything Teen Male Usagi has posted

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

All I've done is present facts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg

[Thork]

Originally posted by Teen Male Usagi:

Originally posted by Thork:

How would you burn yourself? There is a tool to pull the barrel.
You can very well operate it by yourself and do all of that even when your squad is dead.

please show me this barrel changing tool.

I must admit that I can't find the tool with a quick search. However, I can assure you that we used a very simple tool to pull the barrel and you could easily make a simple hook yourself.
Even though the MG3 opens to the side and there is not much needed to slit out the barrel, so using gloves might be preferable when every second counts.
I doubt anyone cared/cares about cancer when gut shots are much more imminent.

Thanks for removing that last part. Makes no sense to me to make that depending on "action". The motivation in becoming a soldier should be to prevent "action"...
I willingly admit that I have very little experience, still likely more than you.