All the Fallschirmjager's gear is silly.

[Landsknecht und Deutscher Ritter]

First off they wouldn't be using the FG42, Those things were pretty much exclusively issued to special units that were actually being airdropped like those dudes who tried to rescue mussolini. And even if they did they'd use it as a light machine gun in lieu of a MG42 or MG34, But in game they use it as a SMG in Lieu of the MP40 which would be pretty much impossible because of the heavy recoil, light weight and high cyclic rate of the rifle. So it doesn't make any sense to have a squad with the FG42 and MG42, That's like if the US airborne had a squad with BARs and M1919s. Those recoiless guns would be used by gerbirgsjager in the mountains on the eastern front, norway, italy and southern france, But not in Normandy to my knowledge, And those pak 41 squeeze bores would be discontinued since they only made 300 in 1941 and stopped making ammo for them around 1942 aswell. The only thing that really fits is the pupchen but those would be used by virtually anyone axis unit on the western front.

[Landsknecht und Deutscher Ritter]

Publicado originalmente por acur1231:

It was not produced in large numbers, but we are talking about a single German airborne div. It does seem to have way to much FSJ though. Red Devils only has 8 squads, and then just airlanding squads, which is odd. I will do a Red Devils and RAF buff thread soon, I think. 3rd FSJ has tons of FSJ, lots and lots of smaller FSJ squads, and tons of LW-jagers(or something similar). To be fair, I don't do the Americans often, but they seem to have lots of Airborne as well, so I don't think it is a deliberate buff for the Germans, but an oversight on Eugens part. Please Eugen, 3 cards of 5 Red Devils in A at least. Both FSJ and US airborne have that(I think, I cannot check ATM).

And calm down. The war ended 70 years ago, and while some here may wish it ended differently, Germany and most of the nations it fought against are on the same side now.

LW Jagers are generally inferior to normal infantry but I do agree the 3rd fallschirmjager is otherwise was more balanced and generally stronger in terms of infantry. Although from a support unit perspective I think the 101st and 6th pull ahead too. So it doesn't seem very inbalanced.

[acur1231]

FSJ are the best infantry in game by far. Nothing even comes close. Panzerfaust, 2 MG 34s and what basically amounts of 2 SMGs that can be used at 300-400m.

LW Jagers have a 4HE MG. They are 9 men, quite cheap, and come in large numbers. More importantly, their MG alone puts out as much HE as the British rifles section does, with both rifle and MG. When used in support of the FSJ they are very very strong.

How can you possibly say that they are worse than normal infantry? Look at the British Empire squads of rifles.

[Kim Jong Chill]

if anyone was wondering while in their bunkers of this flame war, the fg-42's and the BAR's would be considered automatic rifles, wheras mg-42's would be gpmg's and m1919 and mg-34's would be mmg-ish, and of course mp-40 smg. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8aAXsJRzTM.
They all have different roles in combat and there is no reason they wouldn't be used in supporting roles of each other.

[Chief Berto]

Acur1231 the 6the AB get 8 2star paras, 8 2 star AB brens, 6 2 star oxbucks and 6 2 star 10man pathfinders which are full squads...that's alot of really good 2 star infantry, more than either the 101 or 3rd FSJ (101 doesn't have any 2star inf and the 3rd has 10 2 star FSJ). The division make up is good although unqiue. The problem with them is that their huge and overwhelming strength is they're CQC units and that's the hardest strength to play around.

[Landsknecht und Deutscher Ritter]

Publicado originalmente por Kim Jong Chill:

if anyone was wondering while in their bunkers of this flame war, the fg-42's and the BAR's would be considered automatic rifles, wheras mg-42's would be gpmg's and m1919 and mg-34's would be mmg-ish, and of course mp-40 smg. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8aAXsJRzTM.
They all have different roles in combat and there is no reason they wouldn't be used in supporting roles of each other.

They're called GPMGs cause the Germans used the MG 34 and MG 42 as light machine guns and heavy and vehicle mounted machine guns. They would sometimes use weapons like BARs from Belgium or Poland in lieu of the machine gun. But they'd never use both as part of the same unit. The entire purpose of the Automatic Rifle is to give a rifleman capacity near that of a machine gun without sacrificing the rifle performance of accuracy and portability. If the FG 42 was being used by anyone in normandy they would be using it in lieu of a machine gun.

[acur1231]

Publicado originalmente por Chief Berto:

Acur1231 the 6the AB get 8 2star paras, 8 2 star AB brens, 6 2 star oxbucks and 6 2 star 10man pathfinders which are full squads...that's alot of really good 2 star infantry, more than either the 101 or 3rd FSJ (101 doesn't have any 2star inf and the 3rd has 10 2 star FSJ). The division make up is good although unqiue. The problem with them is that their huge and overwhelming strength is they're CQC units and that's the hardest strength to play around.

I am aware of that. However, this is still less than 3rd FSJ and the US airborne has in terms of airborne units. Therefore, I am asking for them to be made 5 sections per card and 3 cards in A. The fact that the 6th airborne can only call in 8 actual para sections is a little odd. This would not even be much of a buff(since airlanding are easily just as good as the paras with the newly buffed PIAT and being cheaper), but more of a flavour option so we can see Red Devils more often.

[Rhedd]

OP makes a claim.
Developer posts an entire list of photos disproving OP's claim.
OP's response? Literally IGNORE the post and rant on a different subject.
Troll is very troll.

[Chief Berto]

3 cards of 5 2 star paras at 25 points each.....

[runequester]

FG42 did NOT replace the machine gun, it was issued in addition to it.

About 7000 were made (the 3000 figure OP uses likely comes from reading wikipedia and not understanding the article - the INITIAL run was approved for 3000 copies made, but they continued production after that).

PLenty were issued in Normandy, some post-war books on WW2 firearms actually assumes they were far more common than they really were, due to how many were captured.

By 44, the German paratroopers were almost exclusively operating as light infantry and had done so ever since Crete. The whole "commando raid" thing is something the Germans undertook very rarely and viewed with a certain degree of disdain.

I imagine the OP is also getting this from wikipedia which mentions that raid in particular, but does not list a general service history.



Go to the library and read a few books mate.

[runequester]

Publicado originalmente por Kanmusu Marine Sexpert:

They're called GPMGs cause the Germans used the MG 34 and MG 42 as light machine guns and heavy and vehicle mounted machine guns. They would sometimes use weapons like BARs from Belgium or Poland in lieu of the machine gun. But they'd never use both as part of the same unit. The entire purpose of the Automatic Rifle is to give a rifleman capacity near that of a machine gun without sacrificing the rifle performance of accuracy and portability. If the FG 42 was being used by anyone in normandy they would be using it in lieu of a machine gun.

Can you find a single source suggesting that the Germans issued the FG42 as a machine gun, as I have literally never come across anything suggesting this.

Considering that StG were viewed interchangeably with MP40 in the TO&E, it seems highly unlikely that the FG42 would be treated any differently, especially for mobile troops.

Do you have a citation in a publication that supports this?

[Landsknecht und Deutscher Ritter]

Publicado originalmente por runequester:

Publicado originalmente por Kanmusu Marine Sexpert:

They're called GPMGs cause the Germans used the MG 34 and MG 42 as light machine guns and heavy and vehicle mounted machine guns. They would sometimes use weapons like BARs from Belgium or Poland in lieu of the machine gun. But they'd never use both as part of the same unit. The entire purpose of the Automatic Rifle is to give a rifleman capacity near that of a machine gun without sacrificing the rifle performance of accuracy and portability. If the FG 42 was being used by anyone in normandy they would be using it in lieu of a machine gun.

Can you find a single source suggesting that the Germans issued the FG42 as a machine gun, as I have literally never come across anything suggesting this.

Considering that StG were viewed interchangeably with MP40 in the TO&E, it seems highly unlikely that the FG42 would be treated any differently, especially for mobile troops.

Do you have a citation in a publication that supports this?

They used the MP40 interchangably with the StG44 because it was an assault weapon. You can't use a FG 42 as an assault weapon because of how heavy the recoil is, its small magazine and high firerate don't help either Which is why it was issued as a LMG with a bipod for firing on full auto. They may have wanted to issue it as a universal rifle and StG, But they simply didn't produce nearly enough to carry out that task.

[Chief Berto]

If you read about what the FG42 was designed for after the battle of Crete the Germans wanted an infantry weapon to supply the FSJ that could replace the kar98, mp40 and MG34s. This was to standardize ammo for supply and provide small units with maximum firepower. Sounds alot like what the US army was looking for when they developed the m14 and later m16. It only weighted just under 11 pounds which is just over 3 pounds heavier than an m16 and yes the recoil was heavy but most accounts point to it being used as a selective fire weapons on semi. The FG42 was not a squad level MG but a battle rifle and was used as such. It even had a folding pike bayonet.

Between the two types produced they made about 9000 of them, most of those going to the FSJ regiments in normandy. The allies saw so many of them in the FSJ units they faced in normandy they thought the weapon was being mass produced and it wasn't until later campaigns they realized this wasn't true.

Finally this is a game, a great game, and the devs have taken some liberties with history to balance the game fun and historical feel. The m22 locust was never used in normandy, nor was the ram. The luff did not have the capability to field the planes they can in the game. All accounts from normandy were that the FSJ units were some of the best and hardest units to fight and the devs have made this be reflected in game. There are only so many ways to do this and one great way is to slightly exaggerate the weapons the FSJ get to reflect their undeniable prowess as infantrymen.

[Landsknecht und Deutscher Ritter]

Publicado originalmente por Chief Berto:

If you read about what the FG42 was designed for after the battle of Crete the Germans wanted an infantry weapon to supply the FSJ that could replace the kar98, mp40 and MG34s. This was to standardize ammo for supply and provide small units with maximum firepower. Sounds alot like what the US army was looking for when they developed the m14 and later m16. It only weighted just under 11 pounds which is just over 3 pounds heavier than an m16 and yes the recoil was heavy but most accounts point to it being used as a selective fire weapons on semi. The FG42 was not a squad level MG but a battle rifle and was used as such. It even had a folding pike bayonet.

Between the two types produced they made about 9000 of them, most of those going to the FSJ regiments in normandy. The allies saw so many of them in the FSJ units they faced in normandy they thought the weapon was being mass produced and it wasn't until later campaigns they realized this wasn't true.

Finally this is a game, a great game, and the devs have taken some liberties with history to balance the game fun and historical feel. The m22 locust was never used in normandy, nor was the ram. The luff did not have the capability to field the planes they can in the game. All accounts from normandy were that the FSJ units were some of the best and hardest units to fight and the devs have made this be reflected in game. There are only so many ways to do this and one great way is to slightly exaggerate the weapons the FSJ get to reflect their undeniable prowess as infantrymen.

The M14 was designed to replace the M1 garand and M2 Carbine, The M16 was designed to replace the M14, M2 Carbine and M3 Grease Gun. The M60 was used as a SAW. Bayonets are almost entirely worthless, And it wasn't unfounded to mount them on machine guns, The BAR was originally designed with a bayonet lug, Along with the Type 96 and Type 99. Plus original intent doesn't matter much when your gun is only introduced 3 years later in extremely limited numbers to a unit that isn't going to use it anymore. The Ram was used at normandy, Not as a regular gun tank in combat but as a command vehicle(like in game), kangaroo and flamethrower tank among other things. I've never heard anything about the majority of FG 42s being sent to Normandy btw.

[runequester]

Publicado originalmente por Kanmusu Marine Sexpert:

Publicado originalmente por runequester:

Can you find a single source suggesting that the Germans issued the FG42 as a machine gun, as I have literally never come across anything suggesting this.

Considering that StG were viewed interchangeably with MP40 in the TO&E, it seems highly unlikely that the FG42 would be treated any differently, especially for mobile troops.

Do you have a citation in a publication that supports this?

They used the MP40 interchangably with the StG44 because it was an assault weapon. You can't use a FG 42 as an assault weapon because of how heavy the recoil is, its small magazine and high firerate don't help either Which is why it was issued as a LMG with a bipod for firing on full auto. They may have wanted to issue it as a universal rifle and StG, But they simply didn't produce nearly enough to carry out that task.

The question which you avoided remains:

Do you have a citation from a book that actually supports that FG42 was issued IN PLACE of MG42 ?

There are plenty of translations of German TO&E out there, you should have no problem providing this.

If the answer is "no, I am making stuff up based on wikipedia" then please clarify that and we can move on.

[Landsknecht und Deutscher Ritter]

Publicado originalmente por runequester:

Publicado originalmente por Kanmusu Marine Sexpert:

They used the MP40 interchangably with the StG44 because it was an assault weapon. You can't use a FG 42 as an assault weapon because of how heavy the recoil is, its small magazine and high firerate don't help either Which is why it was issued as a LMG with a bipod for firing on full auto. They may have wanted to issue it as a universal rifle and StG, But they simply didn't produce nearly enough to carry out that task.

The question remains:

Do you have a citation from a book that actually supports that FG42 was issued IN PLACE of MG42 ?

There are plenty of translations of German TO&E out there, you should have no problem providing this.

If the answer is "no, I am making stuff up based on wikipedia" then please clarify that.

Lol bro TO&E isn't going to be standard when you've got a massive and eclectic arsenal, organization and availability for your equipment. Again they may have wanted to arm fallschirmjager squads with the FG 42 and MGs but it simply wasn't going to happen with how few they had available.