Tiger 1 bouncing the Sherman Jumbo.

[REESE'S FECES]

Me and a couple of my buds were playing a few games of Steel Division, I was the 12th SS, when I finally got the chance to deploy my tigers, I came across a couple Jumbos, no biggie...Or so I thought, I cannot express how criminal it is seeing the Tiger just simply bouncing the jumbo's armor at near medium combat ranges, I was shocked to see the jumbo just taking hit after hit after hit, so I got myself a pak 40, hell even the Pak 43 bounced a few shots at the jumbo, thinking it would help put the pressure, but no...Nothing, so I said ♥♥♥♥ it, bring out another tiger, only to be met with the same experience, bouncing, it was only after I managed to get a side shot from one of my panther, at the cost of 4 Panzer 4's also trying to counter the jumbo, I believe the analogy of "Balance" in the recent updates have really made the jumbo as tough as the Tiger, this is quite an unfair thing as I literally am just being forced to focus on one little tank while the rest of the battle is going on around me, pulling me out of the experience, I'm not sure what the developers were going for...Maybe hoping I wouldn't notice the "balance" changes in some of the weaponry? or too many people on the allied side are being forced to deal with the fact that German tanks were simply "better" in somce respects, so they cry to the devs and beg for a nerf on half of the German vehicles/weaponry. I am not complaining, nor am I ♥♥♥♥♥ing, but this is almost criminal to see a heavy tank, bounce a medium tank at ridiculous ranges where the 88 should excel. I think the jumbo should be considered for a slight nerf.

[Diarrhea Cactus]

Did you use smoke to creep up on it at point blank at any point to take it out? It isn't exactly a fast tank and can be quickly panicked and taken out with troops if your tanks cant get close enough. I agree that a PAK43 should easily smoke the jumbo, I've never had that experience because of the way I position things but given that scenario, I would have smoked and then went in. Don't forget AT planes that the German's get. I blew up two jumbos with them dual striking at the same time from the sides.

[Ulater]

Jumbo couldnt be penetrated point blank frontally by the Tiger I.

102 mm thick glacis sloped at 47 degrees and 178 mm mantlet are beyond the capabilities of KwK 36.

Jumbo isnt a medium tank.

[acur1231]

The Jumbo was designed to take a hit from an 88mm AT gun and lead the column to soak up the first shot of the German ambush. That being said, I believe that they are slightly out of timeframe, but they can be in since the Germans have the Luftwaffe and way more heavy tanks than they did in reality. This is not a balence thing, the Jumbo can and should be able to bounce 88mm and long 75mm rounds. By the way, did you win the game in question? The 3rd armoured is one of the worst decks in game, and the German armoured divisions are all top tier decks. 12.ss and Windhund with loads of Panthers and starred tanks, and Lehr and 21st have King Tigers.

[Raio]

Disabling Jumbo inst hard job anyway. Im playing 3rd armor from release.

[clayroger]

Many people overestimate the power of a lone Tiger tank. This is because of the Hollywood films which show a nearly invincible and overpowered tank. I should also add that the nazi propaganda is still alive for some reasons.

So when people run into a game built on some kind of realism, they are surprised with the firing results, which do not match the idea they have of the Tiger tank.

The Tiger tank was NOT a super tank, definitely not. And Jumbos were very good tanks.
These are facts.

[[EUG] MadMat]

Originally posted by (KEN) Army Group Dankmemes:

I cannot express how criminal it is seeing the Tiger just simply bouncing the jumbo's armor at near medium combat ranges,

And yet, it was EXACTLY what the Jumbo was designed for!
It was specifically designed and build to ... withstand frontal hit from 88mm guns.

Therefore, everything works as intended here. ;)

[Concerned West Virginia Resident]

This game is very generous about what it considers a side shot, so maneuver for one- you can shoot from out of the jumbo's effective gun range so do it.

[DarkMachine]

Most people tend to assume otherwise but the Sherman Jumbo is equipped with over 150mm of sloped frontal armor, something that even the notoriously acclaimed Flak 88 have issue penetrating. If the the 88mm Flak gun have trouble even penetrating that then what makes you think the Tiger I KwK 36 main gun fared any better?

The Tiger I was rolled out into the battlefield as an advanced heavy tank which excelled at firing from extreme distance with very good armor compared to other tanks at that time, until it was trashed on the eastern front along with the P3 and P4 which was deemed by the Wehrmacht inadequate to counter the emergence of rapidly better Allied armor thus the introduction of the Panther and Tiger II/Königstiger which was primary intended to fix a lot of the flaws and shortcomings of tanks like the P4 and Tiger I.

[Thodin]

Thank god the Jumbo just shots at 1000m max range.

[™1Shot1KiLL®]

tiger 1 aurmour in game should be atleast 17 frontal aurmour. 12 doesnt represent the real deal. shermans couldnt penetrate tigers from the front at point blank range most of the time. but in game a sherman with 10AP can frontaly panatrate a Tiger from 700-800 meters. but this is a game ofcourse.

[acur1231]

Originally posted by ™1Shot1KiLL®:

tiger 1 aurmour in game should be atleast 17 frontal aurmour. 12 doesnt represent the real deal. shermans couldnt penetrate tigers from the front at point blank range most of the time. but in game a sherman with 10AP can frontaly panatrate a Tiger from 700-800 meters. but this is a game ofcourse.

Why? It is flat armour, which came out in 1942, was not very strong with the brittle metal quality due to the allied bomber campaign. Hold on, that does not happen in the Eugenverse, since the Luftwaffe is still around and the Germans have massed produced heavy tanks. Nevermind. But seriously, the 75mm could indeed kill a Tiger from the front. Before you come up with one of your silly pen charts and say that it could never happen, consider this. The Tiger tanks turret is physically separated from the hull, with a thin layer of armour there. Also, it happens to be a place where ammunition is likely to be, as the gun is in the turret. Therefore, at close range would a Sherman not just hit that spot and take out the Tiger? Which is pretty much what happens in game.

Furthermore, a hit can kill a tank through spalling, and anything above 25 HE should kill tanks through concussion, they should give the tank an instant "crew killed" crit. The Shermans 75mm could also penetrate the front armour of a Tiger, especially with the better ammunition they got in 1944. Before you say that the allies only won by Zerg rushing, note that the main German tank killer was AT guns, and that the German Heavy Tank battalions in the West mostly got a K:L ratio of 1:1(most have a K:L slightly in the Germans favour, by a few decimal points). Someone posted that information on this very forum in a thread you created on this very topic. So, please stop, the Tiger could and was indeed penetrated from the front by 75mm guns, especially with the better ammunition later in the war.

Wittman died to a Firefly, but in that engagement a few other Tigers were knocked out by normal Shermans. Unless aliens came in a UFO with a nose mounted 17 pounder and strafed the other Tigers, which is about as likely to happen as a HS 129B3 attacking any allied tank in Normandy in 1944(the HS 129 squadron in Normandy was destroyed on the ground before the invasion began). Be happy that the Germans are way stronger than they were in real life and stop complaining.

[Thodin]

Originally posted by acur1231:

Originally posted by ™1Shot1KiLL®:

tiger 1 aurmour in game should be atleast 17 frontal aurmour. 12 doesnt represent the real deal. shermans couldnt penetrate tigers from the front at point blank range most of the time. but in game a sherman with 10AP can frontaly panatrate a Tiger from 700-800 meters. but this is a game ofcourse.

Why? It is flat armour, which came out in 1942, was not very strong with the brittle metal quality due to the allied bomber campaign. Hold on, that does not happen in the Eugenverse, since the Luftwaffe is still around and the Germans have massed produced heavy tanks. Nevermind. But seriously, the 75mm could indeed kill a Tiger from the front. Before you come up with one of your silly pen charts and say that it could never happen, consider this. The Tiger tanks turret is physically separated from the hull, with a thin layer of armour there. Also, it happens to be a place where ammunition is likely to be, as the gun is in the turret. Therefore, at close range would a Sherman not just hit that spot and take out the Tiger? Which is pretty much what happens in game.

Furthermore, a hit can kill a tank through spalling, and anything above 25 HE should kill tanks through concussion, they should give the tank an instant "crew killed" crit. The Shermans 75mm could also penetrate the front armour of a Tiger, especially with the better ammunition they got in 1944. Before you say that the allies only won by Zerg rushing, note that the main German tank killer was AT guns, and that the German Heavy Tank battalions in the West mostly got a K:L ratio of 1:1(most have a K:L slightly in the Germans favour, by a few decimal points). Someone posted that information on this very forum in a thread you created on this very topic. So, please stop, the Tiger could and was indeed penetrated from the front by 75mm guns, especially with the better ammunition later in the war.

Wittman died to a Firefly, but in that engagement a few other Tigers were knocked out by normal Shermans. Unless aliens came in a UFO with a nose mounted 17 pounder and strafed the other Tigers, which is about as likely to happen as a HS 129B3 attacking any allied tank in Normandy in 1944(the HS 129 squadron in Normandy was destroyed on the ground before the invasion began). Be happy that the Germans are way stronger than they were in real life and stop complaining.

The Wiki article says the Tiger frontal plate could not be penetrated by Sherman 75mm AP, not even at point blank range, some eyewitness accounts I read seem to confirm that. Your post is just wrong in every point. For example: The production of the Tiger I was phased out in July 1944, so I ask you how it should be even possible the Tiger production line lacks high quality steel.

[IceWord]

lol, banned from talking fact?
Jumbo has better armor than KT(p) since beta,not that you should cry about it's performance but rather its armor value bias.

[[EUG] MadMat]

Originally posted by BTTLSTARIceWord:

lol, banned from talking fact?

No, for insulting someone taking time to give him a detailed answer.

[Ulater]

Originally posted by author:

Why? It is flat armour, which came out in 1942, was not very strong with the brittle metal quality due to the allied bomber campaign.

Armor so Brittle it was stronger than machinable quality british armor of the same thickness.

Originally posted by author:

Nevermind. But seriously, the 75mm could indeed kill a Tiger from the front. Before you come up with one of your silly pen charts and say that it could never happen, consider this. The Tiger tanks turret is physically separated from the hull, with a thin layer of armour there.

Tiger I E had an additional 80 mm thick turret ring guard between the turret and the hull.

Originally posted by author:

Furthermore, a hit can kill a tank through spalling, and anything above 25 HE should kill tanks through concussion, they should give the tank an instant "crew killed" crit.

Nah, it really cant.

To the point where Brits were trying out whether it would be a viable tactic to send tanks through a 25 pounder artillery barrage.

It totally was a viable tactic.

Originally posted by author:

Before you say that the allies only won by Zerg rushing, note that the main German tank killer was AT guns, and that the German Heavy Tank battalions in the West mostly got a K:L ratio of 1:1(most have a K:L slightly in the Germans favour, by a few decimal points).

Maybe you just cant count.

And no, the main german AT-weapon was the tank.

Originally posted by author:

Wittman died to a Firefly, but in that engagement a few other Tigers were knocked out by normal Shermans.

2 were KOd by Ekins in his Firefly, 3rd was hit by the fire of other Shermans and started to spin in circle, and was too then knocked-out by Ekins, Holflinger's Tiger was on the other side of the road and nobody can say what exactly knocked him out. And fifth Tiger was abandoned or KOd by somebody.