i need help playing panzer lehr

[Woah]

i have been struggeling like crazy whit the panzer lehr where at the start i just cant hold back the enemy units since i get so little infantry and tanks so when playing 1v1 i find it hard to cover the whole map even in phase b i have problems although this is usualy the phase where i can begin to push back but i can never get back all my lost ground in phase c

any tips on how to play it

[Trapmaker]

Panzer lehr isnt really viable outside 10v10 if you arent good.

[Woah]

Originally posted by Trapmaker:

Panzer lehr isnt really viable outside 10v10 if you arent good.

kinda sucks because it has some really cool unique units
:/
maybe it should get a buff

[meanderthal]

Panzer Lehr excels on maps with large open area's.

My first game against Medium AI (2e Blindee enemy) i scored over 3k with only 350 loss and did not deploy a single infantry squad whilst doing so ( i even used vehicle recon throughout.)


Unfortunately most maps are covered in small woods and hedgerows, have yet to try them on such a map.

[glythe]

I am guessing you have not played previous wargame titles? You need to understand the basics about setting up units with varied combined arms tactics. In this series generally speaking infantry are bait. Have them be the front line human shield for deadlier things behind them. It is extremely important to rush with the mechanized units you have to the front line to take forward buildings.

Lehr is difficult to play but I have found it to be just strong enough in the first phase. The enemy will probably hold more map in the first phase.... because you are weak. This is totally fine. I think overall it could either use 1 more card slot in the infantry tab or a slight buff to unit counts in A phase as you get so little per card. One of the big problems with this army is having enough infantry in each phase (since recon can't push the line this is a big problem.... look for alternative sources for infantry).

What you want to do is use 2x leaders in A and pair them with MGs and grenadiers (2x leaders, 1x hmg, 1x gren). You need to put the HTs in a position to cover the flanks. It is fast enough to zoom to a forward position if the infantry get in trouble. Remember to have recon units hidden so you can see the enemy approaching (possibly with a hold fire until shot first). What you will find is that elite units slaughter hordes especially if you attack from cover vs none.

You want to find his AT guns that he has hidden around the mid point of phase A. The Panzerwerfer is a really nice option for hitting something you can't reach easily. To this end I would suggest one ME in A as well as the scout plane. Mortars will make units move but the PW can actually kill them.

When phase B starts you get nice tanks but you really want those AT guns to be gone (if not call in the KT... lul). You need to save points during the end of A to afford some goodies as B is where Lehr gets relief. You will probably need to reinforce the infantry with a B grenadier card. Another really strong option is to call in a Tiger leader with a 2 star Tiger.

If the enemy is dug in then bring in the PIV with the off map support when phase B begins. You get a 2 star PIV that also has 3x offmap supports for 190 points. This is exactly the kind of boost Lehr needs to push in this phase. The AT guns will retreat or die.

Lehr is completely worthless on many maps where there are no long sight lines. I was hoping we would get some forest clearing ability with the Tigers/PIVs but sadly that is not a thing.

You can make a spearhead into enemy territory when you get your late game economy. A line of tanks works well but have infantry on the flanks (make kind of an A shape and have the infantry flank the sides of the tanks.

Remember to have mobile AA just behind your tanks to keep planes away. A flak 88 or two will do wonders in supporting a lone early tank as well as defeating enemy air.

During the B and C phases if you were smart with your HTs you can push them ahead to screen the tanks to make sure they don't get ambushed. Tanks shooting the HTs will get blown up in extremely short order. Extra HMG support keeps infantry from swarming the tank as well. Your heavy tanks work well without cover nd you can use the light bushes etc to help the HTs hide (somewhat).

[Thodin]

I don't like to play Lehr, this deck simply lacks infantry cards. The few cards you actually get contain simply not enough squads. You really need infantry to occuply woods, buildings, hedgerows, treelines. Considering all those lol-AoE weapons, you'll need alot infantry cards to compensate the losses. When you run of of infantry, youre done.

[Woah]

k so i just did a bit of testing

on maps where its open lehr is pretty good simply because of the autocannon spam you can make and the fact you get 2 pumas at the start of the round you dont need that much inf because its an open map you cant really use it so the enemy cant really use their inf (where i see most allies eccel at) while your better 2 or 1 star tanks or maybe 3 star tanks can snipe the enemy tanks all day


also i found it helps if i use the support command cards (the 20 mm autocannon apcs) because they provide very good support for my inf (mainly use inf as kill people in bush so they dont at my tanks men) so the troops get an extra star
the 20 mm is also godly at suppresing things especialy when their in the open

(also if you can get one of those 20 mm autocannons to fire at their starting colum of inf trucks you can kill half their forces in just half a minute)

on maps that pretty much arent intirely open your screwed give up


one thing that would make lehr more viable was 1 or 2 more inf slots or more inf units per card
(in phase a YOU ONLY GET 2 SQUADS PER CARD) (they do have 2 stars i think)

i dont recomend using the fuhrers to boost your troops because they take up a inf card slot just use a command vehicle it does the exact same only it probably has more offensive power and dosent get killed as easely its also faster

[Sluggger]

From my view Panzer Lehr is the game's big paper Tiger, sorry for the pun. There are tons of PzIVs, Panthers, Tigers, King Tigers, that in reality no player will be able to deploy due to high points cost. Meanwhile, the 6 infantry cards are nowhere near enough to cover a map and search out enemy AT units.

Phase A, no tanks. Phase B 43 tanks!!! w/ one card of {edit} 3 PzGren squads LOL. Keep in mind the 43 tanks come with a total of 950 (95 * 10) requisition points. You can deploy 7 Mk IVs or (almost) 4 Panthers/Tigers for the entire phase, and that is only if you completely neglect infantry, AT, AA, Air, Art, Recon, etc. Any player can tell you even the best tanks have no chance without recon and inf to spot AT and Air/Art to take them out. So after losing ground w/ gaps in your lines all of Phase A things dont get much better in phase B. You can send your tanks out one every 3 minutes to get slaughtered or save up points as your enemy runs up the score on you.

Finally in phase C 150 points per minute means 1 Panther/Tiger per 2 minutes or a King Tiger every 3 minutes. But by now there are AT guns all over the place and probably rockets/bombs falling all over your troops/panzers, you're behind and still losing ground vs any decent player. Again, you can "rush" your tanks out on suicide missions or wait the 10-15 minutes it will take to put together a decent battle group with 3-5 tanks, recon/inf, and some air/art support. Of course by then you have already lost the battle.

Thanks for playing with Panzer Lehr.

[Woah]

Originally posted by Sluggger:

From my view Panzer Lehr is the game's big paper Tiger, sorry for the pun. There are tons of PzIVs, Panthers, Tigers, King Tigers, that in reality no player will be able to deploy due to high points cost. Meanwhile, the 6 infantry cards are nowhere near enough to cover a map and search out enemy AT units.

Phase A, no tanks. Phase B 43 tanks!!! w/ one card of 5 PzGren squads LOL. Keep in mind the 43 tanks come with a total of 950 (95 * 10) requisition points. You can deploy 7 Mk IVs or (almost) 4 Panthers/Tigers for the entire phase, and that is only if you completely neglect infantry, AT, AA, Air, Art, Recon, etc. Any player can tell you even the best tanks have no chance without recon and inf to spot AT and Air/Art to take them out. So after losing ground w/ gaps in your lines all of Phase A things dont get much better in phase B. You can send your tanks out one every 3 minutes to get slaughtered or save up points as your enemy runs up the score on you.

Finally in phase C 150 points per minute means 1 Panther/Tiger per 2 minutes or a King Tiger every 3 minutes. But by now there are AT guns all over the place and probably rockets/bombs falling all over your troops/panzers, you're behind and still losing ground vs any decent player. Again, you can "rush" your tanks out on suicide missions or wait the 10-15 minutes it will take to put together a decent battle group with 3-5 tanks, recon/inf, and some air/art support. Of course by then you have already lost the battle.

Thanks for playing with Panzer Lehr.

the problem is you lose so much ground and you get nearly no rp in phase b while your units cost more than a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mansion

in phase c its the largest damn rush you will ever experience where you have plently of infantry (depends on card layout) tons of tanks and other stuff but by then its too late the fact is they might even have pushed you back to your spawn points and captured them so you cant spanw new units



panzer lehr needs a rebalancing

on open maps you can win

on maps whit just a bit of obsticals

ur ♥♥♥♥♥♥

[Sluggger]

Originally posted by dat boi:

the problem is you lose so much ground and you get nearly no rp in phase b while your units cost more than a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mansion

in phase c its the largest damn rush you will ever experience where you have plently of infantry (depends on card layout) tons of tanks and other stuff but by then its too late the fact is they might even have pushed you back to your spawn points and captured them so you cant spanw new units



panzer lehr needs a rebalancing

on open maps you can win

on maps whit just a bit of obsticals

ur ♥♥♥♥♥♥

Exactly.

Lehr comes with 50 tanks when it 90% of games you can use no more than 7-10. I played a game vs 6th AB on Hill 112 where I got 5 tanks out!!! 1 Command MkIV, 3 Panthers, 1 Tiger E in 32 minutes.

Only 4 PzGren squads + 4 MG42 in phase A, but if you go that route plus a Gren Fuhrer you only have one Inf card the rest of the game. Try going with AT units so you are not overrun by tanks in phase A and the enemy just bombs or uses art because you have no AA or counter battery art.

It's a shame too because most of the other battle groups are very balanced and well put together. They really missed the mark on Lehr though. Get rid of some of the tanks that look pretty on deck but never see the battle and add some infantry, art, AA, so Lehr has a chance.

[Woah]

Originally posted by Sluggger:

Originally posted by dat boi:

the problem is you lose so much ground and you get nearly no rp in phase b while your units cost more than a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mansion

in phase c its the largest damn rush you will ever experience where you have plently of infantry (depends on card layout) tons of tanks and other stuff but by then its too late the fact is they might even have pushed you back to your spawn points and captured them so you cant spanw new units



panzer lehr needs a rebalancing

on open maps you can win

on maps whit just a bit of obsticals

ur ♥♥♥♥♥♥

Exactly.

Lehr comes with 50 tanks when it 90% of games you can use no more than 7-10. I played a game vs 6th AB on Hill 112 where I got 5 tanks out!!! 1 Command MkIV, 3 Panthers, 1 Tiger E in 32 minutes.

Only 4 PzGren squads + 4 MG42 in phase A, but if you go that route plus a Gren Fuhrer you only have one Inf card the rest of the game. Try going with AT units so you are not overrun by tanks in phase A and the enemy just bombs or uses art because you have no AA or counter battery art.

It's a shame too because most of the other battle groups are very balanced and well put together. They really missed the mark on Lehr though. Get rid of some of the tanks that look pretty on deck but never see the battle and add some infantry, art, AA, so Lehr has a chance.

lehr was the one i looked most towards on release because of the tiger and the main focus on tanks but in reality its the worst one of them all

it needs a rework badly
very very very badly its worst battle group so far

[glythe]

I think Lehr only needs a tiny boost in terms of the infantry for phase A. You have to buy multiple cards for A that give 2 units. This would be ok if they had a PIV for phase A. The deck would make a lot more sense if the PIVs were A card slots not B card slots.

Canada has the Ram II for phase A so this really wouldn't be too out of place.

[Woah]

Originally posted by glythe:

I think Lehr only needs a tiny boost in terms of the infantry for phase A. You have to buy multiple cards for A that give 2 units. This would be ok if they had a PIV for phase A. The deck would make a lot more sense if the PIVs were A card slots not B card slots.

Canada has the Ram II for phase A so this really wouldn't be too out of place.

the ram 2 is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ op in phase a
it has 13 pen and has like 11 front armor wtf

pz4s in phase a would be nice

i agree whit more inf but in general the inf cards should changed for panzer lehr their panzergren cards only give 2 or 3 squads of inf and suddenly in phase c you get what 18 squads of pioneer inf

the fact lehr relies so much on phase c is stupid because phase b and a are basicaly you trying to hold ground you will never be able to hold not to mention most of the times you lose before you even get to phase c and you cant make enough ground to get points fast enough and you lose to the timer

[Kadrush]

No tanks in phase A makes baby jesus cry...

[Woah]

Originally posted by Kadrush:

No tanks in phase A makes baby jesus cry...

you get the puma whit 2 stars but its more expensive than almost every other battlegroups tanks (accept for maybe a few) and its easy to kill too all it has is a "good" gun
in phase b you dont get enough to get enough tanks 7 if you buy nothing but tanks (panthers) but you also need inf support vehicles and recon

so at max ur looking at 4 or 3 tanks 1 for the middle and 1 for each flank so basicaly each of your tanks are gonna be fighting 2 or 3 enemy tanks or even more because the lack of points you get

[Kadrush]

4 frontal armor makes the Puma a windowmaker