I hate lying so much

[bobbananaville]

I detest Lying. So much. I mean, I like it when it's optional - options are always great. But when it's forced upon you? I'm on the second trial, and I HATE it.

There's now this gigantic disconnect that wasn't there in the previous titles. I thought it was brilliant in the first trial, where it's revealed that you've been playing the killer the entire time. But after that?

It feels counterintuitive, stupid, and wrong to perjure myself in a court case. It feels like I'm making a terrible choice, and when I can ONLY make that choice it reminds me that the shoes I've been trying to fill are not mine - they belong to the protagonist.

Quit playing for a day when I realized I'd have to lie on the second court case. Just booted it up again, still gonna see the game through but I'm forcing myself and not enjoying myself at all to read through the bits where I lie.

Edit: Am I alone in this?

[Jex]

(I'm too lazy to use the quote feature rn)
Imo lies are worse than muder. White lies are still lies. You should never take something informal so seriously. If someone says they never lie it could also mean they rarely lie or try not to lie. Jesus never sinned so he never lied. People shouldn't lie.

[Icepick UK]

Messaggio originale di Killer Killer:

Wouldn't you?

No because it's a completely illogical decision to make. I detest the lie mechanic.

[Foulcher]

This was interesting from a gameplay standpoint and also makes sense. People are irrational and discussions are not "perfect". You have to escape from local optima to find the real optimum.

[treeflower]

I can understand why you dislike lying over solving it logically. However it is directly tied into the character growth of the protagonist and I feel we would have end up with a very different game doing it the other way.

I think because you lie, that people assume there is no way to solve it normally. But all the forced lies can be solved logically, just the game leaves up to you to figured it out.

[rat]

Messaggio originale di bobbananaville:

I just don't think lying in a court case, where everybody's lives are at stake and people's ability to trust you is integral to ability to present your case, is rational in any way unless the protagonist has more information than you have - which defeats the purpose of playing a murder mystery, since the entire point (for me, at least) is to find out the truth yourself.

Yeah uhh I just finished the first trial, and I was reallly hoping that the whole "Lying" mechanic was [Trial 1 Spoilers]just a big bait and switch that would be thrown out once you were actually not playing as the killer.

But to my dismay, I've found this discussion thread and learned that it is not so.

But yeah. It appears I'm basically totally alone in my distaste for the lying mechanic. I suppose that's a good thing, since that means people tend to have more fun playing this game than I do.

Nope, you've a second here. I completely agree and think that having the main character lie and put their reliability at stake over a hunch is more than counterintuitive, I think it's contrived [Trial 1 Spoilers] past trial 1 and only put in place to spice up the mechanics because they needed to throw in something new to keep things interesting.

So, it really sabotages my suspension of disbelief, but I'll go with it because I like the series.

[Electronic Toaster]

The way I see it, and remember it becasue it has been a while, the lying was performed in situations where case didn't have enough definitive evidence to land somewhere certain, but had led to a place where somebody could be blamed.


The case would end on whether you trusted that person or not. Shuichi would lie to provide evidence to jump over the issue of trust, to keep the case going. It was because Shuichi would place his trust in those people. But it was also the case that Kokichi would always pick up that Shuichi was lying, because of the how useful the lie would be, and how they would come out of nowhere. But Kokichi would allow it to keep going to see if Shuichi could land the investigation with certainty. Because he also knew that there wasn't enough to definitively close the case.

So yes, Shuichi would lie to move the case elsewhere. But the case usually didn't have any more evidence in that direction, and was possibly going to stop there because it seemed 'good enough' for everybody to stop questioning. If he was wrong, He could say that he lied and the case would just go back to where he lied to move the case elsewhere. Though it would hurt his credibility for the future. Shuichi was always one to prefer intuition and motivations over the explicit facts of the case.

Shuichi, in nearly every case, lies because he trusts in the good intentions of others. There is one time that he doesn't lie for this reason. This is when he tries to imply Kokichi is the culprit. Kokichi immediately pushes back in this case. Though I guess he kind of was in that case.

This trait, of trusting in the goodness in others, allows him to jump to trying to convince the audience at the end. He doesn't just accept how the audience is portrayed, but puts his trust in them to change their minds. So the lying mechanic does indicate something about Shuichi. And this specific trait is the one that leads Shuichi down the path of trying to convince the audience.

[featherclaw]

In this game the topic of truths and lies weighs heavier than in the other two, so they made it into a mechanic and an option to play as a liar yourself. The Ch2 Trial functions as a tutorial for the lying mechanic, and I have yet to figure out how to finish the game on lies xD

I can understand why you may not be a big fan of it, but honestly, view it as a tutorial and just don't use it again after, you can finish the game with truths only after that ^^
BC let's be real here, Shumai just doesn't have it in him to lie so consistently anyways ;P

[King Of Lolis]

nah lying is best part in any universe
its fun

[treeflower]

Lets take Kaede's lie in chapter 1 for example. If she used a line of logic such as:
The Monokuma file say that Rantaro died at 9:10 pm, so 50 mins before the deadline. However Shuichi returned before the promotional video BGM changed to Monokuma stating that one hour remained, so he cant be the culprit.

While that is true and would continue the class trial just like the lie would. It however robs us of showing that Kaede truly does trust Shuichi. It really allows for showcasing a character that telling the truth and using logic just doesn't do.