Ending questions (Spoilers)

[Mecahawk]

I have a few questions I wanted to pose because I'm not sure I understood a lot of the ending. I thought most of the game was fantastic, but the ending left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

Was the ending meant as social criticism of the Danganronpa players and community? Supposedly the audience turns over a new leaf but they STILL decide not to save Tsumugi or K1-B0 in the end.

Are they computer generated in a cyber world, or are they real physical people with their memories blanked and rewritten? It indicates the latter, but it seems strange to me that they would kill real physical people when in Danganronpa 2, it's all virtual and everyone lives and comes back.

Did they ever explain who Kaede's sister was?

Also, one of the outside world audience looked like Ron Paul to me.

[Sepiablitz]

Originally posted by Battler Ushiromiya:

Except they're not fictional. Regardless of personality, they're still flesh and blood humans.

Well let me give you a real life example: Imagine you are given a cosplay of Kaede, which in our world is 100% a fictional character. You are forced to dress as her and also brainwashed into thinking you are her. Now I come along and take your clothes. Do I dress as you (the real person) or as Kaede (the fictional one)? Obviously I also dress as Kaede just as you did. So in the end both of us were cosplaying a fictional character. It's just the same with Kaede and Tsumugi. Kaede is forced to wear clothes of a fictional character and Tsumugi takes her clothes.

Originally posted by Fedex780:

Tsumugi went to the bathroom to show kaede (regardless of that bathroom) to show that she couldn't be the killer BECAUSE of the cospox. Tsumugi was the only one without an alibi because she went to the bathroom.

There is one thing I just do not understand, I hope you can explain it to me: How would the other 13 innocent people come to the conclusion that Tsumugi is the killer even if she did not have that rash? Nobody knew about the secret passage and without any evidence you can't just bring that up. The only other ways to the scene of the crime was the staircase which was watched the entire time and the vent, also watched the entire time. What could she even possible achieve by dressing as somebody else?

[Fedex780]

I'm talking specifically about the retrial in the final chapter, where they did know about the passage. I mentioned the cospox because at that time, that was the only thing she had as an alibi, and that since she wasn't seen going down the stairs dressed up as someone else, then she can claim that she was innocent. During the first trial, the passage was out of mind, but Tsumugi still didn't have a reliable alibi, and I think that cospox was a convenient lie to really tie down that claim.

[Sepiablitz]

Originally posted by Fedex780:

I'm talking specifically about the retrial in the final chapter, where they did know about the passage. I mentioned the cospox because at that time, that was the only thing she had as an alibi, and that since she wasn't seen going down the stairs dressed up as someone else, then she can claim that she was innocent. During the first trial, the passage was out of mind, but Tsumugi still didn't have a reliable alibi, and I think that cospox was a convenient lie to really tie down that claim.

My point is, if they know about the secret passage, the cospox do not provide for an alibi in any way. But without the secret passage, she already has an alibi which is nobody seeing her walk down the stairs. I just fail to see how she does *not* have a reliable alibi without cospox in the trial 1 circumstances.

[Fedex780]

The cospox only helped support her claim that she couldnt have done anything. She was the ultimate cosplayer, after all, so she would be suspect becasue she didn't have an alibi. The cospox could've been a simple lie to get her trail clean. If they knew about the passage, I have a feeling there would not have been a mention of the cospox.

[Sepiablitz]

Originally posted by Fedex780:

She was the ultimate cosplayer, after all, so she would be suspect becasue she didn't have an alibi.

That is the part I do not understand. How does she not have an alibi?

[LightlySalted]

Originally posted by Sepiablitz:

Originally posted by Fedex780:

She was the ultimate cosplayer, after all, so she would be suspect becasue she didn't have an alibi.

That is the part I do not understand. How does she not have an alibi?

During Rantaro's murder, Tsumugi claims she was in the bathroom. Without cospox, Tsumugi could be anyone, and Shuichi and Kaede's account of watching the staircase would be misled. But since she did say she has cospox, and Kaede confirms it herself, everybody concludes that Tsumugi could not have cosplayed and used to stairs.

Moving on, I still think the cospox is real. In the last trial, Tsumugi went out of her way to cosplay as every character from the first 2 games. If she was able to, I think she would have cosplayed as this games' characters too, especially Kaede, since she meant the most to Shuichi.

[Battler Ushiromiya]

Originally posted by LightlySalted:

Originally posted by Sepiablitz:

That is the part I do not understand. How does she not have an alibi?

During Rantaro's murder, Tsumugi claims she was in the bathroom. Without cospox, Tsumugi could be anyone, and Shuichi and Kaede's account of watching the staircase would be misled. But since she did say she has cospox, and Kaede confirms it herself, everybody concludes that Tsumugi could not have cosplayed and used to stairs.

Moving on, I still think the cospox is real. In the last trial, Tsumugi went out of her way to cosplay as every character from the first 2 games. If she was able to, I think she would have cosplayed as this games' characters too, especially Kaede, since she meant the most to Shuichi.

Even without cospox, that logic wouldn't work. Tsumugi went back to the dining hall. Even if she cosplayed as someone, she couldn't get back to the dining hall because Shuichi and Kaede were watching the starcase, along with the fact that everyone who went doen there initially was still there.

[LightlySalted]

Which leads me to say, why would Tsumugi bother lying about cospox in the first place? To give herself an out? If she ever cosplayed during this game, it would be very risky. If a double sighting occurred, everyone will know Tsumugi lied about it.

[Sepiablitz]

Originally posted by LightlySalted:

Originally posted by Sepiablitz:

That is the part I do not understand. How does she not have an alibi?

Without cospox, Tsumugi could be anyone, and Shuichi and Kaede's account of watching the staircase would be misled.

Well, as you say yourself:

Originally posted by LightlySalted:

If a double sighting occurred, everyone will know Tsumugi lied about it.

When ever Kaede an Shuichi said person X went to the basement, but it was actually Tsumugi cosplaying as person X, person X can just speak up and in the end Tsumugi would be the suspicious one.
That is what I am trying to say: She did not bring up cospox to prove her alibi. She already has an alibi that can only be invalidated by knowledge about the secret passage.

Originally posted by LightlySalted:

Which leads me to say, why would Tsumugi bother lying about cospox in the first place?

Or rather: Why did she bring it up in the first place? That is what I am trying to figure out.

[WizoDard]

Originally posted by Sepiablitz:

Originally posted by LightlySalted:

Without cospox, Tsumugi could be anyone, and Shuichi and Kaede's account of watching the staircase would be misled.

Well, as you say yourself:

Originally posted by LightlySalted:

If a double sighting occurred, everyone will know Tsumugi lied about it.

When ever Kaede an Shuichi said person X went to the basement, but it was actually Tsumugi cosplaying as person X, person X can just speak up and in the end Tsumugi would be the suspicious one.
That is what I am trying to say: She did not bring up cospox to prove her alibi. She already has an alibi that can only be invalidated by knowledge about the secret passage.

Originally posted by LightlySalted:

Which leads me to say, why would Tsumugi bother lying about cospox in the first place?

Or rather: Why did she bring it up in the first place? That is what I am trying to figure out.

I didn't like the idea of Cospox in the first place. I always thought it was a cheap lie to get her off the hook of suspicion...
Without anybody knowing about the Bathroom Hidden Door, or Rantarou's Survival Perk, she wasn't going to be found out in the first Trial anyway...But I predicted all of that, without even being given any other clues, xD. I'm better than Shuuichi. That being said, I couldn't figure out how Korekiyo killed Tenko, xD.
SEESAW EFFECT

[Battler Ushiromiya]

Originally posted by WizoDard:

Without anybody knowing about the Bathroom Hidden Door, or Rantarou's Survival Perk, she wasn't going to be found out in the first Trial anyway...But I predicted all of that, without even being given any other clues

I don't believe that at all.

[Fedex780]

She wouldn't have cosplayed as the people in the game because she probably didn't want to break anymore of the killign games rules than she already had. And again, the cospox is the only thing that stood as her alibi, because remember, Rantoro died soon, and I mean VERY SOON, before Shuichi and Kaede enter the library. At that point, no one was watching the room Kaede and Shuichi were in. And remember, this is a murder mystery game, anyone without an alibi is suspicious regardless of what they can and cannot do. The cospox was most likely the only way that she could wipe her trail clean, even if it was unlikely she was the killer.
And again, Shuchi even stated at the very end that something didn't feel right after the academy was destroyed, and like we've proven here, there are holes in Tsumugi's final claim.

[LightlySalted]

I still don't see a incentive for Tsumugi to lie when it's easier to tell the truth. Let's say cospox never came up, even if Tsumugi did not have an alibi at the time of murder, she knew what Kaede was up to. Most of the evidence pointed to Kaede, and Kaede had the intent of killing whom she thought was the mastermind. After the murder, Tsumugi could've literally done nothing and still be fine, because the evidence pointed to Kaede and not her even though she would've had no alibi.

I think the cospox was more for us as the player and less for the game itself.

[Fedex780]

Originally posted by LightlySalted:

I still don't see a incentive for Tsumugi to lie when it's easier to tell the truth. Let's say cospox never came up, even if Tsumugi did not have an alibi at the time of murder, she knew what Kaede was up to. Most of the evidence pointed to Kaede, and Kaede had the intent of killing whom she thought was the mastermind. After the murder, Tsumugi could've literally done nothing and still be fine, because the evidence pointed to Kaede and not her even though she would've had no alibi.

I think the cospox was more for us as the player and less for the game itself.

That's my point, it's the fact that the entire finale begins on the subject of the cospox only being able to cosplay fictional characters. If that cospox was a lie to begin with, then the entire finale of the game could be a perjury.

[LightlySalted]

Yes, you've already said that several times. Ambiguity doesn't sit well and pretty much never exists in mystery games like danganronpa, whenever something needed to be disproven, there was always a clue or spoken dialogue that contradicts it. The cospox, Tsumugi turned red when she wore Kaede's clothes. How did she fake it? Was there a used vial of poison found anywhere that could've been used to give the symptom? Nothing of that sort was found.

If there was a random clue to be found like, if you could go to Tsumugi's room in a special event and you could see a stack of clothes matching V3's casts', then sure I could believe it.

You might say, well she could've just cosplayed as Kaede that has the red rash. That kind of reason is just stretching it and there is no basis for it.

If there was an ambiguity lie, and that lie can undermine the finale's big plot twist secret. That would be a waste of a plot twist, wouldn't it?