Ending questions (Spoilers)

[Mecahawk]

I have a few questions I wanted to pose because I'm not sure I understood a lot of the ending. I thought most of the game was fantastic, but the ending left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

Was the ending meant as social criticism of the Danganronpa players and community? Supposedly the audience turns over a new leaf but they STILL decide not to save Tsumugi or K1-B0 in the end.

Are they computer generated in a cyber world, or are they real physical people with their memories blanked and rewritten? It indicates the latter, but it seems strange to me that they would kill real physical people when in Danganronpa 2, it's all virtual and everyone lives and comes back.

Did they ever explain who Kaede's sister was?

Also, one of the outside world audience looked like Ron Paul to me.

[CloverChiaki96]

Basically that Tsumugi being the mastermind and things that would stop the game from continuing, is why Monokuma would lie.

[Electronic Toaster]

To 星の天使

It's true that Kokichi died. But the rule about a lab member dying before their lab opened meaning the lab will remain closed was suddenly brought up in chapter 5, just before shuichi opened the door to Rantaro's lab.

In side the lab was the Rantaro video. That video wouldn't make sense to be released at that point, because the flashback light was not revealed as false, which is what I think was supposed to happen. The Rantaro video appeared in the chapter 4 intro, which, if we follow the other chapter intros, meant that it should be revealed in chapter 5. Everybody still believes the Gofer Project story at this point, because it wasn't demonstrated to be false. Kokichi's change to the narrative, by not revealing what I think to be the Flashback Light machine during the chapter 4 trial, meant that the Flashback light lies were still beleived. Hey, in fact Monokuma's 'secret of the outside world' flashback light might have done the same job of just showing the flashback light machine, as it would also possibly reveal the flashback lights were fake if it showed something like an audience. So for the Rantaro video to turn up suddenly at this point in the story, and to suggest that there were previous killing game, would clash with the already running set of lies that everyone believed about the outside world.

Also, with Kokichi's lab. I believe that the entrance is that pillar thing you can see in chapter 6. You can walk over to it only in the chapter 6 investigation, probably because the path was being made to go there. The front slab was being removed at this point too. If you check back through the chapters, that pillar is always intact. As in, the first time you see it, it is already sealed up. So the possible elevator there was built before the v3 class are able to go around the back of the school for the first time.(I believe you are blocked from going round that side when you first go outside.) This also makese sense in that Kokichi's lab is under the ground and school. So it was likely built(and sealed) before every other room in the entire school. I believe the exisal was tearing off the front slab of the pillar to make the entrance accessible, but was stopped mid way when Keebo started rampaging. Then the exisals dropped what they were doing to fight Keebo. So I think the Hope's Peak History was always intended.

Also, the Hope's Peak History would not be an issue to release at that point, seeing as they had received the Hope's Peak Flashback light. Also Hope's Peak history would not destory the new Gofer project story, considering it now involved Hope's Peak. Hope's Peak was also necessary to ensure the Dangannronpa 53 reveal made sense. In fact, Hope's Peak history is ABSOLUTELY necessary for the Danganronpa 53 reveal. Because if the Flashback lights are revealed as fake, as seemed to be the plan, then all knowledge of Hope's Peak becomes fake. And then Danganronpa 53 doesn't make sense, because no Danganronpa event ever happened, fiction or otherwise.

Technically the First Blood Perk and Time limit consituute motives, but they are more simply threats or boons. They contain no information about the outside world, such as chapter 2 and chapter 4 motives.

To treeflower and CloverChiaki96
I apologise for not being more clear.
What constitutes Monokuma's motives can be somewhat specific.

There are numberous things that might be a motive, but not specifically motives Monokuma claims or introduces.

One example of this is the Caged Child ritual. This seemed to motivate Kiyo to murder, but it was not an explicit motive that Monokuma introduce as a motive for the class. The same with the Neo World Program. It was obviously intended as a tool for murder, but Monokuma did not introduce it as a motive. He also didn't introduce the Flashback Lights as motives in that sense. They are somewhat motives, but not officialy introduced as such at the start of a chapter. The Hope's Peak flashback light was used to motivate, but Monokuma did not introduce it as a motive. I don't think he appears at all in relation to it?

The specific examples I am thinking of are as follows.
In chapter 4 Monokuma comes out, the Monokubs deliver the Card Key, and Monokuma says something like 'the card key is the motive'. And after the trial is over, he claims credit for the motive, and calls it the secret of the outside world. Monokuma talks at leangth at the end of chapter 4 about his role in the motive.

In chapter 3. Monokuma is mute very early into Chapter 3, when the Monokubs apparently rebel and take over the running of the killing game. So the Monokubs actually deliver the Necronomicon Motive. Monokuma doesn't start talking again until Kiyo asks about what happens if there are two blackeneds, because the Monokubs can't figure out how to determine what the rule is. After the trial, Monokuma does somewhat suggest that they should use the necronomicon. But there is reason to believe that Monokuma doesn't actually claim that motive as his.

In chapter 2, this is more complicated. Monokuma is in all the Motive videos we see. So I think we can claim that these are his videos. Though I can understand disagrement here, seeing as he doesn't actually deliver them.
The videos are delivered randomly. It seems that there is a flashbacklight added to Kirumi's motive video, ontop of her being the only one to actually receive their own motive video.



At the end of the Chapter 2 trial.
Monokuma: Hmm? Y'know, I meant to bring this up earlier cuz it's been bugging me for a while...
Monokuma: 'All this talk about videos being switched... What does it mean, exactly?
Himiko: 'Nyeh... don't play dumb. You're the onw who switched up all the motive videos.
Monokuma: No I didn't
...
Monokuma: 'Oh? Was I not supposed to ask that? Did you cubs screw up again, hmm?
Shuichi: "Not supposed to"?
Monokubs blame eachother
Monokuma: Ah, it seems I misunderstood.
Monokuma: I completely forgot that the plan all along was to redistribute the videos.
...
Monokuma: It's not you fault at all, kids. It's my fault for forgetting.



So Monokuma seems to claim credit to some degree. But I can understand disagreement.

I think this exchange can show how the motive video's themselves are Monokuma's motive, but how they were distributed was a trick done on purpose. So the Monokubs deliberately gave Kirumi her own motive video, and probably added a flashback light.

Kokichi appears to believe the Motive videos are correct. Or Kokichi atleast tests whether they were correct by outing Maki as the Ultimate Assassin. And Kaito's grandparents are in his motive video. He still remembers his grandparents without watching his motive video. So it would be odd to show Kaito people not his grandparents, unless the point was to flashback light him into thinking these particular people were his grandparents for some reason. Also, the only thing we ever learn about Kokichi's background is from his motive video. And it is used as evidence in the 'truthful' part of the Chapter 6 trial. And that Motive video certainly coincides with Kokichi's V3 behaviour and attitude to the Killing Game.

Edit added.
Sorry, Ill add the picture of the possible elevator again.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1216435285

During chapter 6, if, when facing the front of the school, you travel to the left and round the back of the school to the boiler room where the entranceway to the Death road of Despair is you will walk past that pillar in the picture. You can actually walk closer to it. This was not possible previously. That pillar in earlier chapters both always looks normal, and cannot be reached because Shuichi refuses to walk over grass. But he is suddenly able to walk over there in chapter 6. I assume that is because it was going to be an entrance way, and the path to it was already made by the exisals at this point, before heading off to fight Keebo. During that same chapter, When you enter the tunnel that heads to Kokichi's lab by going down the stairs under the floor in the main entranceway, I am pretty sure that the tunnel heads over in the same direction, and would end somewhere over where the possible elevator seems to stand.

[ShirakiSanagi]

İlk olarak CloverChiaki96 tarafından gönderildi:

Basically that Tsumugi being the mastermind and things that would stop the game from continuing, is why Monokuma would lie.

Tsumugi isn't even the mastermind, she is just an employee for Team Danganronpa. We all know that chapter 6 mainly focus on lies. Why would a peaceful world so crazy over some killing games? How can real people become fictional people? How can it reach the season 53rd? Only a despair world within the tragedy can long for some livings kill each other without any sympathy. Could a cosplayer like Tsumugi pull all the strings? There must have some stronger force behinds her, don't forger her last words refer she copied something. There is some evidences during the game that the students never willing join the killing game, so why Tsumugi had to lie about this? The reason Monokuma had to lie also support for Danganronpa 53rd narrative, also Monokuma never confirm Tsumugi being the mastermind, he just said so after she cosplaying Junko. Monokuma could throw Tsumugi under the bus if it makes the game exciting, how every evidences were so convience point towards Tsumugi, how he agreed to have the class trial 6 and how he calm when Tsumugi was being exposed were the proofs for that.

[treeflower]

There is also one more thing that is revealed in chapter 6 other then the possible elevator. That is some untranslated text on the other side of the boiler room on a patio stone. It was previously hidden by tall grass.

[L1LE1]

Truth or Lies are irrelevant without evidence. Without confirmation of the truth or lie, all that's left is belief. Is Danganronpa V3 canon? Does Tsumugi have cospox? Was it all a lie? I don't know and it usually doesn't matter. What matters is that it's what you want to believe.

[Electronic Toaster]

Here's my very brief summary. If by brief you mean many many words.

For anyone new to this topic, obviously don't read this if you want to figure stuff out for yourself.

Monokuma basically always tells the truth.
The Monokubs are there to tell lies to make the game entertaining. This is because Monokuma can't tell lies without the risk of being caught out as a liar. Being caught out as a liar would mean Monokuma would lose his credibility and his ability to control the game as an impartial judge and enforcer of rules. The Monokubs appear truthful, because they share Monokuma's credibility. But if they get caught out, then Monokuma can drop them as scapegoats.

The V3 class are kidnapped by Team Danganronpa.
They don't kow eachother. First Rantaro, and then Kaede, start recognising that they are part of a Killing Game, as broadcast on tv early into the Tragedy.

Part way into the Prologue they have their memories wiped.
The V3 cast had their memories wiped a year or two into the past, and have forgotten the Tragedy and events of Danganronpa. These events were real. Everyone also receives a memory explaining the Ultimate Initiative, and this memory confirms their talent. Just to be clear, any talents already possessed by the V3 class exist in real life. They were not implanted with Talents. All they received was a memory telling them that what they had was considered an Ultimate level Talent according to the Ultimate Initiative. That is how Tsumugi's arugment that their talents are casued by auto suggestion in the last trial makes sense.

Two people have different memory alteration.
Rantaro has no memory wipe, and has no memory given about the Ultimate Initiative and does not have a false memory confirming a talent. Kiyo has memory alteration to do with Sister, because he explictly remembers her making his current Ultimate uniform. He also believes that it is possible to talk to the dead through seances, because he has memories of doing so.

So everything everyone remembers that is not shown during the course of the game being given by a Flashback light are true memories.

Tsumugi hints at her Danganronpa 53 reveal when you first talk to her in the prologue. Rantaro's weird expressions and extremely accurate guesses, and specific attempt to not directly reference his own situation show that Rantaro is aware that everyone else has had their memories wiped. It is almost like he is throwing out suggestions to see if the other people he talks to remember anything.

Chapter 1
There are no flashbacklights in this chapter. This is because they would contradict what Rantaro knows to be the case, because he still remembers everything, and had no memory wipe.

Rantaro is led into a trap through his survivor perk Monopad for the end of chapter 1. This is because the Monopad shows the Library secret room, but not the Girl's bathroom pathway. It also tells him that the Mastermind rebuilds Monokumas with a special machine they have to activate. The Time limit motive also explictly says that a rampaging horde of Monokumas will enforce the time limit, which would require the mastermind to use said machine, and said machine would be likely hidden in the secret room, and said secret room apparently only has one entrance.

The purpose of this is to partially reenact the first game, in that there is an ultimate Hope(Kaede) and and ultimate Detective(Rantaro). The Despair Road defeats Kaede's hope. Rantaro is the opposite of Kyoko, in that he keeps all his memories, rather than losing them all, and it is his explicit extra knowledge that leads him to a trap. This was done for the audience (and perhaps Tsumugi's personal satisfaction), who would recognise the simularity with the first game and like the fact that Tsumugi defeated the original two 'heroes', even when at the height of their powers, and with all the advantages.

Chapter 2
The first Flashback light is introduced to the V3 class, notably after Rantaro was explictly led into a trap to die. This is because if a Flashback light was used when Rantaro was alive, then he would immediately notice the contradiction. If you notice, Monokuma says the technology can be used to regain old memories, but he doesn't actually cilaim the memories being received are real. He just says he hides the Flashback Lights.

The chapter 2 motive videos of family are real, because they are Monokuma's motive as they contain him. It also doesn't make sense to threaten harm to people the V3 class don't know.( Kaito remembers his grandparents without the motive video, so unless they wanted to flashback light him into thinking strangers are his grandparents for some obscure reason, it doesn't make sense for the video to be fake.) However, the Monokubs are shown to be responsible for them being not correctly handed out. Kirumi's motive video also has a flashback light attached, which links her motive video to the fake flashback light story. Kirumi is the only one to receive her own motive video.

Chapter 3

Monokuma says nothing about the content of the Flashback lights.

Chapter 3 's motive is the necronomicon. The Monokubs actually hand out that motive. Since the Monokubs take responsibility for the Necronomicon Motive(with Monokuma notably absent), it is not real.

(The Kiyo bit is more contentious :) )Kiyo's implanted memories come to the fore here. He explictly remembers the Caged Child ritual in great detail, feels extemely compelled beyond all reason to perform the ritual, and totally believes that seances are real. The shock of the ritual not working seems to utterly consume Kiyo for quite a while. Likely this is because he has explicit memories of seances working, because that is how Sister merged with him in the first place. But since those memories are fake, it explains why Kiyo would believe, based on evidence(memories) that Sister is real and Seances work, and would then get a huge shock when the seance actually doesn't work. It's also possible that Kiyo was lying about never having done the Caged Child seance before before. In which case, he has explict memory of it working, and when it doesn't work, it doesn't make any sense at all to Kiyo.

Chapter 4
This chapter plays out differently, because it contains Kokichi's plan that runs over into chapter 5.
Monokuma takes responsibility for the motive in chapter 4.

Monokuma mentions nothing about the content of the Flashback Lights.

Monokuma introduces the motive with the key card. Monokuma does not call the motive 'the Secret of the Outside World' when he first introduces it. Kokichi uses the key card to find a machine that can make Flashback Lights. Kokichi hides this reveal, and tries to think of a way of using it to end the killing game. He eventually decides to enlist the help of Monokuma. He needs Monokuma for two reasons.
1 To transfer a Flashback light into the Virtual World, because that is where the plan needs to occur.
2 To explictly call the flashback light 'The Secret of the Outside World' This is because Kokichi needs to ensure that not only does the Flashback Light motivate Gonta to murder in an attempt to sacrifice himself for the sake of the others, but he also needs to set up the outside world reveal he has planned for Chapter 5. The Outside world being terrible must be believed by the V3 class. This is why Kokichi not only hides the fact that the Flashback lights are fake, but also makes sure that Gonta does not reveal the actual content of the Flashback light, because Kokichi needs to ensure that the Gofer Project story continues in order to rob everyone of any motivation to keep going forward.


The 'Secret of the Outside World' Flashback light contains real information, likely the fact that there is an audience. This is because Monokuma has to tell the truth, to ensure he is able to maintain credibility, and therefore control the game. If Monokuma lied at this point then Kokichi could easily reveal this fact and destroy Monokuma's credibility and convince the V3 class to stop participating. The other thing is that it is in Tsumugi's interest to reveal that the Flashback lights are fake at this time. The Fake Rantaro video set up to be revealed in Chapter 5 is the beginning of the new story of the outside, the one that leads to Danganronpa 53. Rantaro's video supports Danganronpa 53, and contradicts the Gofer Project. While Monokuma did not originally name the motive that Kokichi received in the key card, he later names it the 'right to see the outside world'. So this has to be basically true as well. And a Flashback Light Machine is technically the outside world, because it contains every memory the V3 class has of the Outside World. It is also something that anybody can use as a tool. Finding out that you have no motive to kill because the outside world is dead isn't a great motive to kill, nor is it something that can be used to kill.

Chapter 5

Kokichi has set up the Outside world as being horrible(Gonta), has prevented the Flashback lights from being revealed as fake, and the content of the Flashback Light that Gonta saw was not revealed either.

He leads the V3 class to that tunnel, and shows the outside world (I think its real, but everything still makes sense even if its fake.) Kokichi knows that something horrible has to be there, because it has to be something that coincides with the Gofer Project Story up to that point to keep everyone inside. Kokichi knows the Mastermind wouldn't just let them leave. Kokichi also doesn't tell the 'truth' of the outside until they have all seen it, so there is the chance for Kokichi to modify his lie based on what is out there.

Tsumugi decides to introduce Hope's Peak early, because everybody is so lacking in motivation that they aren't interesting to watch anymore, and aren't participating in the Killing Game anymore. Tsumugi decides to not reveal the flashback lights as fake yet, because they can be used to motivate the V3 class to kill Kokichi. Tsumugi can reveal they are fake later.

Monokuma actually mentions the content of a flashback light here. He says that PERHAPS Kaito's virus was dormant when selected for the Gofer Project.

Chapter 6

The Hope's Peak History is integral to the Danganronpa 53 story. If the Flashback lights are revealed to be fake, which was always the intention because its funny, then Danganronpa is not a fictional tv series in the real world, because the events of Danganronpa wwere only something made up for a fake Flashback Light.

Hope's Peak History is in Kokichi's lab, which was the first room built. It has been sealed the entire game because the ground floor of the school was built on top of one entranceway, and the secret elevator entrance in the pillar to the side of the school was only just being opened in chapter 6 before Keebo started rampaging. That elevator was not accessible since atleast Chapter 2, when you are first able to go round to that side of the school, though it was likely sealed before that.

Tsumugi wanted the Killing Game to continue as long as possible. Monokuma explictly uses the Monokubs to protect the identity of the Mastermind, and to protect the First Trial's original verdict, because it is risky for Monokuma to lie if the game continues on because the V3 class were unable to prove anything. However, when the V3 class prove that Tsumugi is the mastermind, and killed Rantaro, Monokuma throws out the original story, blows up the last lying Monokubs, and proceeds straight to the finale reveal. I think Monokuma starts lying a bit before this, when he tries to protect the Mastermind and hold up the integrity of the first Trial. But when he says the story has changed, he goes into supporting the lie of Danganronpa 53. It might be possible some things he says after this point can be true, but his 'reveal' of Junko being the mastermind, and Dangarnonpa 53 being the 53rd seasons aren't true. At this point, Chapter 6 Class Trial is definitely the final trial, so Monokuma doesn't need to keep his crdibility for enforcing the rules or declaring the Blackened. So he can freely spend his credibility on the Danganronpa 53 lie, because if he does get caught out, it won't matter after this point. Also, there is fake evidence to back up this lie anyway.

Danganronpa 53 was the intended reveal at the start. The Flashback Lights were intended to be revealed as fake at some point, which is why Monokuma ensures he doesn't confirm they are true, except the one he was convinced to make by Kokichi, being the one he explicty stated he made in chapter 4. This is also why the Rantaro Video, Application Video and Prologue remake video exist. They are not Flashback lights, so they appear real when the Flashback lights are revealed to be fake. However, Tsumugi lied about Cospox. So she is actually Rantaro in the Rantaro video, (Could only be recorded by chapter 3 at the earliest because the School floor Rantaro's lab was on, and within which the video needed to be shot, wasn't even built until then. Rantaro is dead by this point *Thanks Sepiablitz*), Kaede, Shuichi and Kaito in the Application videos( the floor in part of her lab is the same floor shown in the Application videos *Thanks someone else?*), and she inserts specific scenes into the Prologue remake video to justify the Danganronpa 53 story. The Prologue remake shots are visible because she gets the positioning slightly differently for Kaede's shots, so that the background white screen is in a slightly different position. She also recuts the Shuichi added scene so that Kirumi is no longer visible in the background, because to keep Kirumi in would require a second impersonator. These slight differences are not something the V3 class would ever notice, seeing as they see the video once only, and they see it while they are being traumatised.


The outside audience is real. They are the despair filled people of the Tragedy. Tsumugi has advertised Danganronpa V3 as a continuation of the previous Killing Games. So basically everyone who likes that type of thing is watching. They have been watching through Keebo. Though they didn't likely have much control over Keebo's actions, because he has his own personality that is forcibly removed to ensure that the outside world can vote in the final trial. Tsumugi rightly thinks that the audience is on her side, because Danganronpa has always shown us that despair filled people think that Killing Games are the best form of entertainment. This is also why Tsumugi doesn't participate in the vote, because she not only believes that her audience agrees with her, but it also means that if her audience doesn't agree, then that is the end of basically all Killing Games because she just basically lost her entire audience across the world. Due to the Gimmick of Keebo, the audience basically participated in the Killing Game from the perspective of a participant, and so they can be convinced by Shuichi's argument that all the lives of the V3 class up to that moment mattered. Also, because it is likely a Killing Game converted them to despair in the first place, it makes sense for them to be able to be converted back to normal via a Killing Game. The audience specifically regained empathy by 'participating' and after being convinced by Shuichi that whatever the case, those people's lives mattered.

Tsumugi chooses to be punished at the end of that vote, because her show managed to convince basically all (or a large portion) of the despair filled people of the world that Killing Games are wrong. As Tsumugi said, she doesn't want to live in a world without the Killing Games.


If you pay close attention in the Trial, you will notice that Tsumugi leads Shuichi to certain conclusions, and Shuichi makes the jumps to these conclusions without the requisite evidence. Tsumugi then provides the evidence that supports the propositions, however that evidence wasn't there when Shuichi(player) makes the choice.


This might be the final summary? I know I have said that a few times. I can't think of other stuff I'm not sure of at the moment. I'll stop for a bit and relax and see if anything else comes to me. That was actually quite a lot of work. It was made easier with people commenting and discussing. There was a lot of information that I had trouble categorising. Usually you can largely summarise people or events and build the rest of the events off those 'knowns', but basically everything felt suspect in this one, so everything had to be constructed at basically the same time. And you had to take little bits of information said across the entire game and put them together. In other words, basically nothing is solid, and evidence is spread across the entire game. So you have to look at everything, and then rexamine everything in relation to any new element investigated. So Thanks to everyone who participated.

I kinda hope that's it :p

[CloverChiaki96]

I think the big question we all have is why did Rantaro volinteer to participate in another killing game, in his recording he says to himself "You wanted this killing game you have to win, no matter what." Also when Maki volinteers to sacrifice herself, and the truth behind what would happen to her if she did, I think that Shuichi says that Rantaro made a decision for some reason, for some reason he knew that he would have to participate again, but what was his goal of doing it, my theory is that he called Team Danganronpa out just like Shuichi did, and was planning on using the 53rd killing game to expose the truth behind the killing games, because it looks like all the participants did not volinteer remember at the beginning of the prologue, when Kaede mentions she was thrown into a van. That is the Ulitmate Hunt, they scout people who seem to be perfect for the show, and kidnap them, there is no auditon, those are likely done by lookalikes, tying into the third motive, bringing someone back. Also remember that Rantaro says in the recording that there are no tricks, no actors, it's you before you lost your memory. This is something that I hope is explained in the next game, why did he participate again of his own will?

[ShirakiSanagi]

About Rantaro's video, Shuichi sure it was clearly recorded in Rantaro's lab but he doubted it was possible because Rantaro died before his lab was opened and it was locked, permanently. They were just able to get inside the room thank to Keebo. Also, Rantaro's lab was on the floor 5, which was only accessible until Chapter 4, he obvious can't record it while he was alive.

We can see Rantaro's video introduction at the start of Chapter 4, when the floor 5 was built completely and the V3 class can only go there later once they received the prize to unlock the floor 5. So we can safely assume someone else was recording the video in his lab during the start of Chapter 4, and that someone isn't Rantaro we know.

Rantaro's video says something that I found suspicious "First things first, I...am you. No tricks, no actors. It's you." When he started introduce himself, why does he quickly say this line and why he seems to stutter while claiming "I... am you"? If he was sure the video would be given to his future self, why does he need to say this line? It's like he afraid something untrue in it and this 'Rantaro' seems to know the fact that someone can impersonate a real person, that's why he said this line. In this case, we can safely assume there is a lie in this 'Rantaro's words, at least, and the possibility that this 'Rantaro' is someone else disguised as him. This Rantaro knows that there is another part to this perk, this Rantaro knows that he would receive it from the start and this Rantaro suggests that if he was smart, he'd have used it to end the Killing Game. This Rantaro even knows that if he's watching this video, that obviously didn't work out and above all others, he claims that this isn't his first Killing Game, got the title 'Ultimate Survivor' and he 'wanted' this Killing Game and have to win no matter what. Why does he needs to say all of these? As if this Rantaro wants the viewers have to believe that the previous Killing Games actually happened and started to support that he was on Danganronpa 53rd. Also, we know clearly, Rantaro in the start of the Prologue, seemed to unsure if this is what he think, why? If he was willing join the game, he must had to know that he was on it. It is obvious contradict to everything that the Rantaro in video said to 'himself'.

I found that there is a difference on Rantaro's shirt between his true self and his video self :
file:///E:/STEAM%20GAMES/userdata/98062920/760/remote/13829801809914363904/screenshots/20171202144541_1.jpg

file:///E:/STEAM%20GAMES/userdata/98062920/760/remote/13829801809914363904/screenshots/20171202144818_1.jpg

If you look closely, there is a pattern on Rantaro's shirt but there isn't one on the Rantaro's video.

[CloverChiaki96]

That video could have been recorded earlier, maybe that was just showing Tsumugi editing it and setting it up for the lab.

[Rinny731]

Man, I hate being late to a party, but I just finished DRv3 burning with questions--after the initial rage, that is, and came to this thread looking for answers. At first I thought the ending had retconned the first two installments, but after reading here that that wasn't the case, I went back to the last trial and saw where I had been mistaken. To be fair, there is an assload of dialog to parse through, and in my impatience to just get to the damn ending I had jumped to some conclusions. The discussion here has cleared up some things for me.

There was a lot to cover here in this thread too, and while I put in a Herculean effort to go through the most detailed posts, my brain started to melt. I've read some amazing theories here and there in this thread, but couldn't get through everything. After replaying the last trial I've finally come to some conclusions/speculations many of you have probably have already considered, so forgive me if I retread covered ground...

Regarding Tsumugi, I came away with only a couple of things I feel certain about her:

1. Her objective, which was to see the Danganronpa game to completion, 2. That she's a sloppy, sloppy GM.

The most important rule for a game master is to see that all the players have fun (in my personal opinion, even the rules are secondary). Since this is Danganronpa we're talking about, we'll have to alter that rule a bit. In Tsumugi's case, the most important rule is to entertain the audience. If I put myself in Tsumugi's place and think about the main goal, her actions become clear.

Tsumugi wants to finish DR to only two players (as per the rules) because she thinks this would be most entertaining for the audience. To that end, she's willing to break the rules of her own game. It's not out of the question then that she would lie, even about cospox, if that meant it would keep the game going. Shuichi guessed wrong that calling out the mastermind's cheating would end the game, because a fair game was never the mastermind's main objective.

In order to maintain that objective, it was important for Tsumugi to keep the illusion of the world intact. The players can't see the hand of God interfering, so to speak. Once the illusion is broken for the player, that's it. They know all the tricks and can't be manipulated. (In this instance I see some allusion to Himiko. Remember that Himiko insists that she performs real magic when there is evidence abound that they are tricks. Honestly, I find there is more to both Himiko and Angie than just their shticks, but more on that some other time).

A couple of things did manage to break the illusion, and when that happened Tsumugi tried to change coarse:

One was the hidden passage in the girl's bathroom.

The second were the inconsistent memories.

First, the hidden room. The hidden room was definitely meant to be found because it's on the Survivor's Perk monopad--but it was meant to be found only through the library. It's possible that Shuichi and the others accessed it too early when Kiibo destroyed it and before Tsugumi had time to prepare. This allowed Shuichi to gather more evidence of the mastermind, but that's not what gave Tsumugi away. The hidden passage, which is not on the monopad, did that; it was not meant to be found. Its discovery not only gave her away as the mastermind, it gave her away as a cheater. But even then Tsumugi could recover the game and reveal herself as Junko 53rd. It was probably earlier than she would have liked, but the objective was still within reach.

Tsumugi is still trying to keep the story going at this point, by insisting that Junko is 'real' and that Tsumugi is a cover.

Next are the false memories. Those lifted the illusion entirely for Shuichi and the others. As Junko recaps the History of Hope's Peak, the inconsistensies come to light. She finally has to confess that their memories are false, but even so Tsumugi (as Junko) tries to regain control of the game by stating their entire backstory is false as well. Shuichi catches her again--because if Junko is dead and they have nothing to do with Hope's Peak, then who is the person impersonating Junko?

And in a last ditch effort, Tsumugi evades the question and makes her most outrageous statement yet--that the entire world of Danganronpa, including the participants, is fake. She gives away the television show and breaks her Junko character to illustrate this. At this point, the story is already broken, but the game can still survive as long as the survivors play it. The problem is the survivors now know that the world is not in ruins and they are not the last of humanity. Tsumugi still needs to make the outside world uninhabitable for them, making the Danganronpa world all they have. By making them doubt themselves and their friends, and confusing them about what's real and what isn't, Tsumugi maintains control over them, and thus regains control of the game. Realizing Tsumugi's real aim, Shuichi does the right thing and refuses to play.

In other words, Tsumugi's snowball of lies are all for the purpose of salvaging the game. Is she lying about everything? I don't think she is. Shuichi and the others could very well be living fictional lives, but the first two killing games may have been real given there is a book of research on the events (why research a fictional story?). It's likely that the History of Hope's Peak was Tsugumi's main reference, and she messed up the details because she didn't have the book (maybe Koichi had stolen it?). She didn't dismiss it as a prop either because Shuichi alread saw that it wasn't. I have no evidence to support this, of course. I'm just going by what is probable given Tsumugi's motives.

Now about those audition tapes. In light of Tsumugi's aim, if you assume she is lying about cospox, it makes sense that she would fake the tapes, making the participants look like depraved Danganronpa fanatics. But if you think about it again, she really wasn't supposed to get to this point in the first place. Had the game went down the way she wanted, there would be no need to show the audition tapes. If she had faked the tapes herself at what opportunity would she be able to show them? And for what purpose?

To be honest, I rather like the idea of a bunch of boring, normal high school students signing up to have their personalities replaced and entering a death match. It's a perverse form a suicide. Rather than go through life as talentless nobodies, these kids would commit murder and chance terrible death just to be special. Tsumugi missed a chance to induce in them real despair. She should have told them that they wanted to be in the game because they had nothing else going for them; that nobody either knew who they were or cared, and that at least through the killing game they could die having accomplished something.

I think the game hints at that with the Makoto scene. A plain, boring boy who's obsessed with Danganronpa, who finds his real life so tedious and frustrating odds are good he will probably audition for the killing game himself.

Again. Sorry if this is just going over old ground. I just thought it helpful for me to look deeper into Tsumugi's pov.

[CloverChiaki96]

The first two installments aren't retconned, we don't know if V3 takes place in the hopes peak universe, but years later, or if it is a seperate universe, I believe it to be the latter.

[Electronic Toaster]

İlk olarak Rinny731 tarafından gönderildi:

Man, I hate being late to a party, but I just finished DRv3 burning with questions--after the initial rage, that is, and came to this thread looking for answers. At first I thought the ending had retconned the first two installments, but after reading here that that wasn't the case, I went back to the last trial and saw where I had been mistaken. Snip...
.

I can totally understand that it takes a while to think this all through. It took months of discussion to get to this point.

The starting point for this is mentioned in game in the epilogue. I specifically state it in a different topic, but I will mention it here. Not so much to disagree with anything you said, but to just indicate the original starting point of how I got to my summary above.



So remember the epilogue. Remember how Shuichi states two specific things that he feels are true.

Firstly, he states that Tsumugi said that she made a flawless copy and that she was a cosplay cat criminal, and Shuichi surmises that that means that Tsumugi was copying something?

Secondly, Shuichi says that the way they were when they arrived must be a lie if the first thing is true.

The epilogue shows then Tsumugi's version of the Prologue a second time.

If you look closely you will see that the Prologue video Tsumugi showed was altered. the Kaede part is most obvious, as the large white object in the background moves to a new position early into the video.

So the simplest way to interpret that is that cospox is fake, because Tsumugi basically admitted that her Junko was an impersonation, not a cosplay. And if she can play real people like Junko, she can play other real people like Kaede. And the very early prologue supports Shuichi's claim that they didn't willingly apply, because they were kidnapped. So Tsumugi impersonated Kaede and the others, and inserted those scenes into the original to give the impression that the scene contained the V3 class being excited about being picked.




The rest of what I posted is what I think happened, based on the other evidence in the game. But I admit that there is interpretation involved. But I think I'm going to take a break from going into alot of detail about this stuff at the moment, because its been a long journey. Also, others may have different interpretations, and I've already posted mine.

[Battler Ushiromiya]

That's actually a really good analyzation, Rinny.

[Rinny731]

İlk olarak Battler Ushiromiya tarafından gönderildi:

That's actually a really good analyzation, Rinny.

Heh. Thanks, man. Like I said, I know I'm late in all to this, so the discussion must pretty dried up at this point.

A question that's been tickling my brain is the ritual Angie set out to do to bring back Rantaro. What would have happened had she succeeded?

[Battler Ushiromiya]

İlk olarak Rinny731 tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Battler Ushiromiya tarafından gönderildi:

That's actually a really good analyzation, Rinny.

Heh. Thanks, man. Like I said, I know I'm late in all to this, so the discussion must pretty dried up at this point.

A question that's been tickling my brain is the ritual Angie set out to do to bring back Rantaro. What would have happened had she succeeded?

Good question. Could be a lot of things, especially depending on what Tsumugi says is true. She could have put Rantaro's personality in some random guy who applied. She could have gave that person a full makeover to look exactly like Rantaro. The twin theory could be true, and they could bring in Rantaro's twin. Maybe they actually resurrect Rantaro. Or maybe absolutely nothing happens.