Danganronpa V3: Killing Harmony

Danganronpa V3: Killing Harmony

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Mecahawk Oct 5, 2017 @ 7:43am
Ending questions (Spoilers)
I have a few questions I wanted to pose because I'm not sure I understood a lot of the ending. I thought most of the game was fantastic, but the ending left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

Was the ending meant as social criticism of the Danganronpa players and community? Supposedly the audience turns over a new leaf but they STILL decide not to save Tsumugi or K1-B0 in the end.

Are they computer generated in a cyber world, or are they real physical people with their memories blanked and rewritten? It indicates the latter, but it seems strange to me that they would kill real physical people when in Danganronpa 2, it's all virtual and everyone lives and comes back.

Did they ever explain who Kaede's sister was?

Also, one of the outside world audience looked like Ron Paul to me.
Last edited by Mecahawk; Oct 5, 2017 @ 7:43am
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Showing 451-465 of 684 comments
BeastBox Nov 24, 2017 @ 12:02am 
Wow, I haven't been in this thread yet. Quite the insanity.

Originally posted by Electronic Toaster:
It's totally possible Kiyo is just covering up. but why the stress? He starts worrying before anybody has investigated at all. And his plan is working perfectly at this point. He seems really unconcerned about their investigation.
Um .... isn't he just acting? He states pretty plainly later on that the only purpose for the seance ritual was to use it to murder. It's extremely premeditated (sawed floorboards, salt circle intentionally drawn wrong, his own confession). And why would he be concerned about the investigation when he knows everything?

As for the presence of Kiyo's Sister, he's likely just insane. Again, he states as much when talking about the grief over his sister's passing, and how much pain he went through. Everything else he says before dying, like his reasons for using the seance to kill even after killing Angie, can be pretty much taken at face value (and everything that isn't, HE at least believes it's true). The murderers are generally completely honest just before punishment time in this series (as they should be). Even liars like Celeste.

Of course, I'm skipping 30 pages of discussion ...
ShirakiSanagi Nov 24, 2017 @ 1:13am 
Even though the V3 class should forgot their important people and just remember after watching the Kubs Pad, however, there is some parts might be connecting to them :

- Kiyo remembers his sister, which could mean he received his own motive video but I doubt it since he told to Kaede about his sister in chapter 1. We saw Kiyo wearing a face mask at the start of prologue which could be hide his lipstick, suggested his sister is really exist.

- Kirumi remembers vaguely about her "selfless devotion" and "serving everyone" while inside her own lab before receiving the Kubs Pad in chapter 2. At the end of the trial 2, Kirumi said she remembers her "everyone" is "the citizen of the country" upon watching the video and her desire to protect them at all cost (which seems has a strong bond). This could be a hint of truth.

- Kaito never saw his motive video since Shuichi was keeping it. They also had a promise they wouldn't exchance the motive videos after Kirumi's trial. Kaito's motive video shows he is already an astronaut trainee thank to his exception talent. At the end of the trial 5, Kaito remembers he was fine during the medical exam for his training but he has no idea how his illness happened (which might be an addition faked by Tsumugi).

- Ryoma knew he has no reason to life before watching the motive video, which later revealed no one is important to him (this doesn't seems right to be a "motive", I think it is the truth of his life).

- Kokichi points many hints through the trials for Shuichi, he seems to understand Monokuma and the killing games, he might know who the culprits were but pretend to messing around (which could be his express "Ultimate Supreme Leader"). Not sure if he watched his video but the fact he steered off Tsumugi's plan in ch5 proving his actions weren't controlled by Tsumugi.

The case 2 explains the motive videos were provided by Monokuma rather Tsumugi herself, Monokuma said he never lied about motives, which could be a hint for us linking the V3 class's important people is real.
Last edited by ShirakiSanagi; Nov 24, 2017 @ 1:24am
Originally posted by BeastBox:
Wow, I haven't been in this thread yet. Quite the insanity.

Originally posted by Electronic Toaster:
It's totally possible Kiyo is just covering up. but why the stress? He starts worrying before anybody has investigated at all. And his plan is working perfectly at this point. He seems really unconcerned about their investigation.
Um .... isn't he just acting? He states pretty plainly later on that the only purpose for the seance ritual was to use it to murder. It's extremely premeditated (sawed floorboards, salt circle intentionally drawn wrong, his own confession). And why would he be concerned about the investigation when he knows everything?

As for the presence of Kiyo's Sister, he's likely just insane. Again, he states as much when talking about the grief over his sister's passing, and how much pain he went through. Everything else he says before dying, like his reasons for using the seance to kill even after killing Angie, can be pretty much taken at face value (and everything that isn't, HE at least believes it's true). The murderers are generally completely honest just before punishment time in this series (as they should be). Even liars like Celeste.

Of course, I'm skipping 30 pages of discussion ...


If you go to the top of page 29, there's a bit of a summary. Of what I think, at least.

To start the Kiyo stuff. My opinion is that all that was erased from the V3 class was the last year or so, to cover the Tragedy they are in the middle of. So all their talents and memories are real. The Flashback lights we see during the course of the game are the only lies that are given to them, and they fill in that memory gap that was produced to wipe memories back to before the prologue. The only flashback light we don't see is the one right at the start, just after they get their ultimate clothes. But based on the evidence, there is one single individual memory for each student informing them they are an ultimate. Then they all receive a general flashback light of what an ultimate is, ie govt selected, across the country, etc.

Except, Kiyo has a memory of his sister making his current ultimate clothes, which indicates that some memory alteretation is definately present, surrounding his sister. I assume, but cannot prove, that it means that he has a real sister, but that the incest, death, seances and murders all were implanted. Because his first altered memory includes her alive, specifically the uniform making, I assume she is still alive somwhere outside. I think the intent was to create somebody crazy, like Toko, like Junko's game. And I think that it would work better if the memories and affection were real, and then they were twisted with lies.

That's the position I start arguing from in relation to Kiyo's memory.
Last edited by Electronic Toaster; Nov 24, 2017 @ 1:44am
Originally posted by 星の天使:
- Kiyo remembers his sister, which could mean he received his own motive video but I doubt it since he told to Kaede about his sister in chapter 1.
snip

All interesting stuff.

Kirumi does have a very strong bond, as you say. If what I think is right about not having their memories wiped back very far, then it certainly seems possible that those motive videos can be true. Kirumi's being true certainly has merit in the same way I claim that Kiyo had a strong connection to Sister already.

One thing that's unclear, is that if the motive videos are true stuff, why doesn't Kirumi remeber this stuff already. Maybe it broughit it hoem to her. Or maybe her's is different. She is given her motive video directly, whearas no body else receives their own(I believe. Was anyone one else given their correct one I seem to think somebody else got their own motive video. That could make Kirumi's motive video special. If there is a flashback light involved, you would want to make sure the right person received it. And that would only be sure for somone who got their own.)

About Kaito, there is the possibility that he received his illness during the Tragedy. That way, he can not remember it after the memory wipe, but still have received it during his normal life. It does seem to act incredibly fast. Though it could also act that fast because its not being treated properly. His motive video is quite normal, though I don't know where it came from. But the unfortunate accident part at the end is just playing with emotions, I believe, so that Kaito gets desperate in case they are hurt. Kaito remembers his grandparents already, so the motive video didn't need to remind him. It's just there to make it seem like something bad happened to them. In this case, there isn't the slashed lounge chair to make it look like something happened, in the same way Junko did in Danganronpa 1. And in Junko's case, she really did get them kidnapped. So it doesn't look like Tsumugi had the loved ones of the V3 class kidnapped.

Kaito's Grandaparent's comments about him living could refer to his illness, not to his participation in the Gofer project. We don't see any other videos besides Ryoma's so there is no point of comparison. Perhaps this was on purpose so we the player can't figure anything out about whether their lives are real or not. And from Tsumugi's perspective, nobody can or would confer on this point to figure this stuff out.

Ryoma's life story certainly suggests he has no one. (I think)
Last edited by Electronic Toaster; Nov 24, 2017 @ 3:12am
Fedex780 Nov 24, 2017 @ 7:06am 
Originally posted by BeastBox:
Wow, I haven't been in this thread yet. Quite the insanity.

Originally posted by Electronic Toaster:
It's totally possible Kiyo is just covering up. but why the stress? He starts worrying before anybody has investigated at all. And his plan is working perfectly at this point. He seems really unconcerned about their investigation.
Um .... isn't he just acting? He states pretty plainly later on that the only purpose for the seance ritual was to use it to murder. It's extremely premeditated (sawed floorboards, salt circle intentionally drawn wrong, his own confession). And why would he be concerned about the investigation when he knows everything?

As for the presence of Kiyo's Sister, he's likely just insane. Again, he states as much when talking about the grief over his sister's passing, and how much pain he went through. Everything else he says before dying, like his reasons for using the seance to kill even after killing Angie, can be pretty much taken at face value (and everything that isn't, HE at least believes it's true). The murderers are generally completely honest just before punishment time in this series (as they should be). Even liars like Celeste.

Of course, I'm skipping 30 pages of discussion ...

You're in for one hell of a ride my friend, enjoy.
I don't know the situation with Rantaro, but there are two main simple options.

1 He just had his memory erased and he didn't receive the first set of memories, which are the confirmation of ultimate talent and knowledge of what ultimates are. He is just a very logical person able to deduce things quickly and is good at questioning.

2 He didn't have his memory erased. I don't know if this fits completely. But it would explain his greater knowledge. Rantaro would be aware of the previous Killing Games and so he would be more fearful and all over the place in terms of emotions, because he knows what is coming, and can guess why it is happening. He doesn't mention this stuff, because he is carefully gathering information from everybody and finding out he is diffferent. Based on his advance knowledge of the Killing Game, he would be much more careful than others.

The first thing that he says to Kaede is to ask about her kidnapping.


---
Rantaro: Oh, Hey there. You guys get kidnapped too?
...
Hey, let me ask you something...
Do you guys remember how you got here?

Kaede: If you're asking us, then...you don't remember either, do you?

Rantaro: Ha, you're the same way too, huh?
You don't remember anything, do you?
I guess that means everyone here's the same.

Kaede: Huh? Everyone?

Rantaro:I asked the others too. They all said they don't remember
It's like...we all have amnesia or something.

Shuichi: Ah, but that's...not normal. If everyone here has amnesia-

Rantaro scary face: Welp, I guess we're all in a pretty abnormal situation then.
---



If you read this a slightly different way, Rantaro avoids deliberately saying what his situation is. He technically says that everyone else says they don't remember anything. He tends to give generalities, and says what everyone's situation is, and puts himself in the everyone category. He doesn't explictly say what his situation is. It is possible he didn't receive the ultimate talent memory, that would confirm his talent. Or maybe he is hiding it.




---
Prologue After just meeting him. a few different statements

Rantaro Crazy face 'Welp, I guess we're all in a pretty abnormal situation then'

Rantaro Crazy Face 'Or it could be group hypnosis, maybe brainwashing...

Apologetic Rantaro:Phew, I'm in trouble. I know I must have been some kind of ultimate...
I just don't remember.
---


The last statement sounds like he deduced from what everyone else said that they are all supposed to be ultimates. So it could be interpreted that he doesn't know what ultimates are because he never received that memory. As he said, he already talked to everybody about the kidnapping bit, so he might know their definition of being an Ultimate. It's also possible his knowledge of what an Ultimate is would be based on Hope's Peak's Ultimates. And he would certainly not think he would fit into that category.



---
Chapter 1, after Kaede gives a bolstering speech to the group.
Rantaro Crazy Face: 'You have what it takes to win'
Rantaro Goes back to normal: 'I was just thinking, what you said back there would have pissed off whoever's running this.
'They definitely don't want us holding hand, working together...
They're going to come for you, Kaede. With everything they've got.
I'm a little worried about you. You're just so...Straightforward
---



All of this stuff is extremely logical deductions of what is going on, but it's his crazy face reactions that make it strange. It depends what you take win to mean. Does it mean killing everyone and surviving? Or does it mean stopping the killing game, like Makoto did? The second one seems more likely, given the circumstances.


---
Then you get to Rantaro questioning his memories.

Rantaro:'This is exactly what Monokuma wants us to do...So what else is part of his plan? Is my memory part of it too?
If it is then.
...can I even trust myself?
---



Now, if he kept his memory, and no one else did, then he might question whether the memories of the Tragedy are real.
If he just had his memory erased, it's not clear what memory he would be talking about. Because having a lack of memory is not something you can trust. Lack of memory might be encompassed in the first part, of whether his memory is part of the plan. But the second part doesn't make as much sense, because you would automatically distrust yourself if you lacked memory. Also, if his memory is erased in exactly the same manner as everyone else, then this question is not one specific to Rantaro, but he is the only one asking it. He would be in a position to know whether his memory is different to everyone else's, being as he goes around asking people about these things. He could also be questioning why he got to keep his memories, when no one else did, and questions how that would suit the masterminds plan.


I lean towards the keeping all his memories idea making more sense.


Edit Added Later

Heh, if thats true, then you have the stand in's from Danganronpa 1.
Kaede is Makoto at the end as she is an Ultimate Hope, and Rantaro is Kyoko, but with all his knowledge in tact and advance knowledge of the Killing Game.
But they end up causing each other's deaths.
And then you have the Shuichi the detective as the main Character, and Kaito the Ultimate Hope as the side character.

I'm really inclined to believe this now, seeing the perfect symmetry it has with the first game. Also, its how the player would feel going in, riding high on hope and knowledge of the Killing Game. But then Kaede's ultimate hope causes problems with everyone on the Depsair Road. And Rantaro's advance knowledge is no use because he doesn't trust anyone and can't work with others, perhaps specifically because of his knowledge.
Last edited by Electronic Toaster; Nov 24, 2017 @ 8:07am
BeastBox Nov 24, 2017 @ 10:20am 
Originally posted by Fedex780:
Originally posted by BeastBox:
Wow, I haven't been in this thread yet. Quite the insanity.

Um .... isn't he just acting? He states pretty plainly later on that the only purpose for the seance ritual was to use it to murder. It's extremely premeditated (sawed floorboards, salt circle intentionally drawn wrong, his own confession). And why would he be concerned about the investigation when he knows everything?

As for the presence of Kiyo's Sister, he's likely just insane. Again, he states as much when talking about the grief over his sister's passing, and how much pain he went through. Everything else he says before dying, like his reasons for using the seance to kill even after killing Angie, can be pretty much taken at face value (and everything that isn't, HE at least believes it's true). The murderers are generally completely honest just before punishment time in this series (as they should be). Even liars like Celeste.

Of course, I'm skipping 30 pages of discussion ...

You're in for one hell of a ride my friend, enjoy.
I read enough crazy already. Way too many assumptions based on nothing to prop up things that aren't even problems that just cause more contradictions.

Like the last post. Rantaro saying "can I even trust myself" is in response to his own message to himself on his Survivor Perk. His memory has been selectively wiped like Kirigiri's was because his talent might be a giveaway, and there's always an Ultimate ??? in every game. That should be freaking obvious, but hey, here's an essay.
Battler Ushiromiya Nov 24, 2017 @ 10:31am 
Originally posted by BeastBox:
Originally posted by Fedex780:

You're in for one hell of a ride my friend, enjoy.
I read enough crazy already. Way too many assumptions based on nothing to prop up things that aren't even problems that just cause more contradictions.

Like the last post. Rantaro saying "can I even trust myself" is in response to his own message to himself on his Survivor Perk. His memory has been selectively wiped like Kirigiri's was because his talent might be a giveaway, and there's always an Ultimate ??? in every game. That should be freaking obvious, but hey, here's an essay.
For once, I actually agree with you.
Fedex780 Nov 24, 2017 @ 11:22am 


Originally posted by BeastBox:
Originally posted by Fedex780:

You're in for one hell of a ride my friend, enjoy.
I read enough crazy already. Way too many assumptions based on nothing to prop up things that aren't even problems that just cause more contradictions.

Like the last post. Rantaro saying "can I even trust myself" is in response to his own message to himself on his Survivor Perk. His memory has been selectively wiped like Kirigiri's was because his talent might be a giveaway, and there's always an Ultimate ??? in every game. That should be freaking obvious, but hey, here's an essay.

Curiously enough, the pad does state the the first thing he would remember was the Ultimate Hunt, and that in turn caused him to go around asking people about it. I'm not denying Rantaro having selective memory, but since Rantaro is the "Kyoko that couldn't", if he were to have survived till chapter 5, how different would things have been?
BeastBox Nov 24, 2017 @ 11:50am 
Originally posted by Fedex780:
Originally posted by BeastBox:
I read enough crazy already. Way too many assumptions based on nothing to prop up things that aren't even problems that just cause more contradictions.

Like the last post. Rantaro saying "can I even trust myself" is in response to his own message to himself on his Survivor Perk. His memory has been selectively wiped like Kirigiri's was because his talent might be a giveaway, and there's always an Ultimate ??? in every game. That should be freaking obvious, but hey, here's an essay.

Curiously enough, the pad does state the the first thing he would remember was the Ultimate Hunt, and that in turn caused him to go around asking people about it. I'm not denying Rantaro having selective memory, but since Rantaro is the "Kyoko that couldn't", if he were to have survived till chapter 5, how different would things have been?
Yeah, the pad, funnily enough, seems to be trying to get his trust by proving the first memory, since Rantaro would know that he might question the validity of the note ("Can I even trust myself?"). And then he tries to validate it to an extent. This basically proves he's at least as amnesiac as everyone else.

I actually feel like him being the "Ultimate Survivor" is kind of a cop-out. Especially when he dies first. :p I mean, how would things have changed at all? That's a title, not a talent. :p
Battler Ushiromiya Nov 24, 2017 @ 11:52am 
Originally posted by BeastBox:
Originally posted by Fedex780:

Curiously enough, the pad does state the the first thing he would remember was the Ultimate Hunt, and that in turn caused him to go around asking people about it. I'm not denying Rantaro having selective memory, but since Rantaro is the "Kyoko that couldn't", if he were to have survived till chapter 5, how different would things have been?
Yeah, the pad, funnily enough, seems to be trying to get his trust by proving the first memory, since Rantaro would know that he might question the validity of the note ("Can I even trust myself?"). And then he tries to validate it to an extent. This basically proves he's at least as amnesiac as everyone else.

I actually feel like him being the "Ultimate Survivor" is kind of a cop-out. Especially when he dies first. :p I mean, how would things have changed at all? That's a title, not a talent. :p
Ultimate Yakuza, Ultimate Bike Gang Leader, Ultimate Affluent Progeny, etc. There are plenty if titles that have ultimates.
Fedex780 Nov 24, 2017 @ 11:56am 
Originally posted by BeastBox:
Originally posted by Fedex780:

Curiously enough, the pad does state the the first thing he would remember was the Ultimate Hunt, and that in turn caused him to go around asking people about it. I'm not denying Rantaro having selective memory, but since Rantaro is the "Kyoko that couldn't", if he were to have survived till chapter 5, how different would things have been?
Yeah, the pad, funnily enough, seems to be trying to get his trust by proving the first memory, since Rantaro would know that he might question the validity of the note ("Can I even trust myself?"). And then he tries to validate it to an extent. This basically proves he's at least as amnesiac as everyone else.

I actually feel like him being the "Ultimate Survivor" is kind of a cop-out. Especially when he dies first. :p I mean, how would things have changed at all? That's a title, not a talent. :p

Well, remember, Tsumugi never intended for him to die so quickly, so he probably did have some other ultimate talent (maybe adventurer) that we never got to see. He was probably supposed to be the one to solve his own room's riddle, considering that the clues were vague and in random places. But, alas, Tsumugi got cornered, and had to result to a different story.
BeastBox Nov 24, 2017 @ 3:14pm 
Originally posted by Battler Ushiromiya:
Originally posted by BeastBox:
Yeah, the pad, funnily enough, seems to be trying to get his trust by proving the first memory, since Rantaro would know that he might question the validity of the note ("Can I even trust myself?"). And then he tries to validate it to an extent. This basically proves he's at least as amnesiac as everyone else.

I actually feel like him being the "Ultimate Survivor" is kind of a cop-out. Especially when he dies first. :p I mean, how would things have changed at all? That's a title, not a talent. :p
Ultimate Yakuza, Ultimate Bike Gang Leader, Ultimate Affluent Progeny, etc. There are plenty if titles that have ultimates.
Those titles, something was actually done to deserve them. Even Byakuya, born into his role, still was talented enough to build enormous wealth independantly of his family, and Mondo needs to posess the leadership and charisma to draw people to him. Calling Rantarou the Ultimate Survivor (when a survivor is a given each game) is like calling Tsumugi the Ultimate Person With Blue Hair, or Ryoma the Ultimate Shortest Person Here. Especially when the Ultimate Survivor is best known for surviving the least. :) Let's just call him Ultimate Avocado, since that seems to be his nickname. It's got about as much merit ... even after Kaede made guacamole. (zing!)
Originally posted by BeastBox:
Originally posted by Battler Ushiromiya:
Ultimate Yakuza, Ultimate Bike Gang Leader, Ultimate Affluent Progeny, etc. There are plenty if titles that have ultimates.
Those titles, something was actually done to deserve them. Even Byakuya, born into his role, still was talented enough to build enormous wealth independantly of his family, and Mondo needs to posess the leadership and charisma to draw people to him. Calling Rantarou the Ultimate Survivor (when a survivor is a given each game) is like calling Tsumugi the Ultimate Person With Blue Hair, or Ryoma the Ultimate Shortest Person Here. Especially when the Ultimate Survivor is best known for surviving the least. :) Let's just call him Ultimate Avocado, since that seems to be his nickname. It's got about as much merit ... even after Kaede made guacamole. (zing!)
Also, his actual title is Ultimate Adventurer, as revealed in his Salmon Mode ending. But he's also the Ultimate Survivor. It's like Junko's Fasionista and Analyst. He's both,.
BeastBox Nov 24, 2017 @ 4:03pm 
Originally posted by Battler Ushiromiya:
Also, his actual title is Ultimate Adventurer, as revealed in his Salmon Mode ending. But he's also the Ultimate Survivor. It's like Junko's Fasionista and Analyst. He's both,.
Well, granted, that does make a lot more sense than Ultimate Survivor. Why the hell isn't that in the actual main game story?
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