Why didn't DR1 Junko use death motive?

[Netsa]

Unless I forgot something, the real Junko was the only one to not use imminent death as a motive. It bothered me a lot in DR2; Chapter 4 in that game just felt incredibly cheap. What's the point if the participants didn't have a choice? How does that spread despair? Now I start this game, and it's used again right off the bat.

Without spoiling too much of V3, is this going to keep happening?

[Protocol27]

My best guess for DR2 is that they were struggling to make the killer heroic in chapter 4, so they chose to use the motive they came up with since it would be easy to make the killer heroic. Although I agree — it's a cheap motive.

V3 doesn't have a motive similar to DR2-4 after chapter 1.

[Netsa]

Originally posted by Protocol27:

My best guess for DR2 is that they were struggling to make the killer heroic in chapter 4, so they chose to use the motive they came up with since it would be easy to make the killer heroic. Although I agree — it's a cheap motive.

V3 doesn't have a motive similar to DR2-4 after chapter 1.

Thank goodness.

[Electronic Toaster]

The circumstances of each game changed.


Danganronpa 1 end spoiler
Junko needed to be 'reasonably' fair in her motives as she was trying to convince the world audence that Despair was the logical option. She could best do this by using motives that made it more reasonable to blame the class members, rather than the mastermind for the murders. So something like a death motive is too removed from daily life and too heavy handed to be convincing to the audience that the class members actually chose murder.


Danganronp 2 end spoilers
Junko AI wasn't performing this killing game to convince the audience of anything in this one. Remember that it is only the Future Foundation that is seeing this one. The point was to distract the Future Foundation from her own attempts to take control of the Neo World Program system. And she needed some dead bodies to insert her AI into. So it didn't matter if her motives were a bit more cruel or unfair. As long as the Future Foundation was floundering outside the Killing Game, and distracted by what to do about it, then Junko AI's plans were being realised.

[Netsa]

Originally posted by Electronic Toaster:

The circumstances of each game changed.

Danganronp 2 end spoilers
Junko AI wasn't performing this killing game to convince the audience of anything in this one. Remember that it is only the Future Foundation that is seeing this one. The point was to distract the Future Foundation from her own attempts to take control of the Neo World Program system. And she needed some dead bodies to insert her AI into. So it didn't matter if her motives were a bit more cruel or unfair. As long as the Future Foundation was floundering outside the Killing Game, and distracted by what to do about it, then Junko AI's plans were being realised.

I don't really buy that reasoning for D2, since it doesn't necessitate a killing game. If that was the reason, why wouldn't AI-Junko just lay low for a while and then kill the contestants directly? Remember, Future Foundation couldn't access the system or shut it down for most of the game regardless of what Junko was showing them. She wasn't just trying to distract them, she was actively trying to goad them into entering the simulation themselves. So sure, it technically didn't matter if her motives were more unfair, but if that's the case, why go through the trouble? Why not just kill a few and force the rest to Graduate? Making someone feel despair was still part of the equation.

Of course, there was the rule against direct interference but, as far as I'm concerned, Chapter 4 took that rule and wiped with it. If I remember correctly, there wasn't a single mention of it anywhere in that chapter, and there was no indication that the students would have lived if a murder hadn't occurred.

Also, pretty sure D1 was about spreading despair by showing heroes (Hope's Peak students) killing each other. It wasn't about trying to convince people that despair is a good idea. That doesn't make any sense.

[Battler Ushiromiya]

In DR2, Junko just needs people to die, regardless of how it's done. The only reson she can't kill them herself is because of the rules. Unless they break the rules, she can't lay a finger on them. She gets around that for the executions because they do break the rules, being the ones she added about the killing game.

[Netsa]

Originally posted by Battler Ushiromiya:

In DR2, Junko just needs people to die, regardless of how it's done. The only reson she can't kill them herself is because of the rules. Unless they break the rules, she can't lay a finger on them. She gets around that for the executions because they do break the rules, being the ones she added about the killing game.

I understand that, however that rule is present in both DR2's Chapter 4 and DRV3's Chapter 1, but doesn't seem to be taken seriously. I'm hoping it's brought up later in this game here, but in DR2 apparently locking everyone in a box doesn't count as "directly interfering". If that's allowed, and AI-Junko's only objective was to kill people "regardless of how it's done", then it's clear that there were much easier ways to go about it.

In fact, why didn't she just use the death motive as every motive, since it would have finished the killing game much faster?

[Battler Ushiromiya]

Originally posted by Netsa:

Originally posted by Battler Ushiromiya:

In DR2, Junko just needs people to die, regardless of how it's done. The only reson she can't kill them herself is because of the rules. Unless they break the rules, she can't lay a finger on them. She gets around that for the executions because they do break the rules, being the ones she added about the killing game.

I understand that, however that rule is present in both DR2's Chapter 4 and DRV3's Chapter 1, but doesn't seem to be taken seriously. I'm hoping it's brought up later in this game here, but in DR2 apparently locking everyone in a box doesn't count as "directly interfering". If that's allowed, and AI-Junko's only objective was to kill people "regardless of how it's done", then it's clear that there were much easier ways to go about it.

In fact, why didn't she just use the death motive as every motive, since it would have finished the killing game much faster?

She also probably wanted to ♥♥♥♥ with Makoto and them. Since they were watching it, she probably wanted to show them how well their "fixing" of the 2 class was going, and it ended up with thm going into the program themselves. If not for Hajime, they would have been trapped there forever, which could have also been a goal of hers.

[ketrub]

In DR2 she couldn't take control of the dead bodies without the survivors choosing to graduate. If she killed them herself (assuming she somehow got around the rules) the survivor probably purposefully wouldn't graduate. simply as a form of revenge.

Also, she probably realized that getting Makoto & Co. trapped inside would be a nice bonus

[Netsa]

Originally posted by ketruB:

In DR2 she couldn't take control of the dead bodies without the survivors choosing to graduate. If she killed them herself (assuming she somehow got around the rules) the survivor probably purposefully wouldn't graduate. simply as a form of revenge.

Also, she probably realized that getting Makoto & Co. trapped inside would be a nice bonus

No, they would have chosen graduate anyway since they weren't aware of Junko's plans for half that final trial. They were only thinking of escaping. She even brought in a fake Makoto to convince them and it would have worked if Hajime hadn't called him out (which he may not have even been able to do if he didn't learn about the secret code from the real Makoto).

Maybe the thought of trapping the real Makoto was just too good or something.

[ketrub]

If she killed them outright then there's no way they would even believe her IMO

[Netsa]

Originally posted by ketruB:

If she killed them outright then there's no way they would even believe her IMO

They didn't have to. Without Makoto's intervention, they only had two choices and both of them were wrong. In all likelihood they would have selected Graduate, but if they pressed Repeat they would be locked in the simulation with Junko to relive the tragedy once more.

Alternatively, they could just not vote, which was the despair of nihilism that Hajizuru (Izume?) snapped everyone out of, and which also trapped them on the island forever. There was really no way for them to win without outside influence. Heck, even the shutdown sequence wasn't supposed to end with happy-go-lucky flowers. If the story didn't completely ignore half the stated side effects of shutting the system down in favor of a hopeful ending, they would have all reverted if I remember correctly, or stayed in a coma. If Hajime woke up, he should have woken as non-Hajime Izuru, which would have completely screwed everything up.

Edit: Looked it up, surviving students woke up, but were supposed to wake up in the state they were in before being put in the simulation (as remnants of despair). Doesn't apply to Hajime, apparently.