Am I the only one to have an issue with the end of chapter 1 (spoilers ofc)

[Kero~]

So, At the End of chapter one, almost at the end of the class trial, we're told that Kaede is the culprit, and I can't accept that.

But hear me out, it's not like I can't accept the FACT that Kaede killed Rantaro, that I can very much accept, what I can't accept is that we played AS Kaede the whole time. I wouldn't have even complain if the same thing happened while I was playing Shuichi, because it's subversive and unexpected, since she would still be presented as a main character, just not THE main character.

I really have an issue with the game telling us that I AM Kaede, and then, from nowhere, switch to Shuichi because she did it now? What I mean is that, even if they're saying "see, I told you very subtledly that she was the one who did it in her line she was thinking, the problem is, those lines are supposed to be mine, because we're in a video game and she's the only character I can hear the thoughts of, not Shuichi's, not Rantaro's, her thoughts, which defines her as me, so the game just killed me, and killing me should be game over.

Really, all they had to do is setting us as Shuichi from the start and, yes, I would be upset with Kaede dying because I don't like much of V3's cast and she was one of my favorites, but hey, don't play Danganronpa if you don't wanna see characters you like die.

I think all they wanted is do something like "AH! Bet you didn't that coming!" and, as a matter of fact, I did see that coming (seriously, the flash is so f*ckin obvious it makes me think Shuichi and everyone else are the dumbest people ever, but especially Shuichi, since he only notices it at the end of the trial when he's supposed to have set the trap whith her, but that's not the topic here) and it makes it even worst, cause they couldn't even wrote that right (and seriously, I'm not the most clever dude on earth, I could get stuck on the simplest of puzzles). So yeah, I'm angry at Spike Chunsoft right now, because they killed me, and it shouldn't happen.

But that's not all, since I was playing her, I should have known what I was doing (I guess it would be stupid cause I'd already know the culprit but that's why playing as Kaede was stupid in the beginning if she was the the murderer) and MY own actions as the character I AM playing should lead me to MY death, not a script I have not control over. It really broke my immersion and made me really mad.

I might repeat myself, but all they had to do was to make us play as Shuichi from the start. Kaede would have been as likeable and her death wouldn't have been so frustrating for a wrong reason.

And even if this kind of frustration was what Spike Chunsoft was going for, well, it's even more stupid of them because that would they they don't like their players (I don't think that's the case), so I really hope they weren't going for that intentionally.

But hey, that's just how I felt about it and I really wanna know what you think about this twist and why. Maybe that would make my frustration bearable so I can continue playing the game (cause yeah, as I said, they killed me, and it should be game over, so it's game over for me).

EDIT: my point of view changed a bit with all your comments so, check them out too)

[Arcadian.png]

i mean yeah its really heartbreaking sure but did ya really have to leave such a poor review cuz they killed off your favorite character? that's kinda what the what the series is about. not because they hate their players. i personally loved the twist so much it motivated me to keep watching. it broke my heart, but it was REALLY cool how they made the protagonist the killer so subtly. V3 twisted the story in so many ways it makes it easily my favorite game out of the series.
but to each their own i suppose

[Kero~]

Yeah, as I said, I don't leave this because they killed her, it's because they killed me without ending the character arc, it's a bad game design decision imo, I actually think that killing her is a really good idea.

[Kero~]

but yeah, you're not the only one who said this to me, I think you just didn't understood what I meant. And when I say it's a bad game design move, I mean that some people can't even finish the first Class Trial because they don't understand that THEY did it.

So yeah, good idea, bad application.

Also, you don't swap character out of nowhere during a gameplay phase except the player actively chose so. That again is really bad game design imo.

[A.G]

i think its worse in a way, that they want me to believe that books stacked are strong enough to stop a ball and not just crash into them, then onto the floor. if the vent was placed facing towards the bookcase with the "bookramp" so it was straight i could believe it

[Kero~]

well, I can believe it, I just think that it was a stupid way to kill someone, I mean, what if the flash didn't work? what if the mastermind didn't care about the flash cause, hell, he's gonna kill them all anyway so whatevs? what if the books couldn't stand the ball? what if the ball just missed because the victim was looking at the camera from a different angle? There are soooo many holes in this strategy it's a miracle (in the sense that it saved everyone else but her and Rantaro) that she manage to kill someone like that. But once again, I have no issue with that.

WHY IS IT ME WHO KILLED THAT POOR RANTARO AND I HAD NO IDEA. really that pisses me off, if you wanna make sense, just don't make us play Kaede.

[Arcadian.png]

y'know what actually you make a very compelling point. it would make more sense.. and be potentially cooler if you, the player, actually had a choice to attempt to kill someone or not, so if you DID choose to, you'd enter the trial KNOWING it was you, really putting you into kaede's shoes. now, this very clearly isnt a good tutorial for the rest of the game, BUT it could've just been moved. maybe to the 2nd or 3rd.
and say, if you chose not to kill someone, it would've been cool to truly see what happened if you didn't. maybe in a cutscene, maybe someone else put a plan into motion entirely, ( albeit that would be a lot more work ), but you have a point. i still really did enjoy the rest of the game tho.

[Kero~]

I'll probably finish it one day, I just really felt insulted as a player when she/I died and it pissed me off, but I'll get over it.

[Arcadian.png]

yeah i get your criticism now. plus- yeah- why did nobody mention how a metal ball would’ve knocked over some of those books.. and how incredibly specific the timing was..

[Kero~]

My guess is that she saw the flash in the vent, but it doesn't make sense because of how far away from each other they are. Anyway, this murder is stupid the more I think of it XD at least that proves that even with their twisted minds, people at Spike Chunsoft can't be effective murderer and that's a relief.

[enzmagus2025]

Originally posted by Kero:

well, I can believe it, I just think that it was a stupid way to kill someone, I mean, what if the flash didn't work? what if the mastermind didn't care about the flash cause, hell, he's gonna kill them all anyway so whatevs? what if the books couldn't stand the ball? what if the ball just missed because the victim was looking at the camera from a different angle? There are soooo many holes in this strategy it's a miracle (in the sense that it saved everyone else but her and Rantaro) that she manage to kill someone like that. But once again, I have no issue with that.

well later on the fact that the plan was very likely to fail is technically brought up, though not till around chapter 5/6? the rest of the game after chapter 1 is very solid and shuichi is a pretty likeable character.
I didn't see the twist coming so i found it pretty cool, though if you knew / figured it out beforehand it would probably feel pretty pointless

[sii_kei]

Originally posted by Kero:

since I was playing her, I should have known what I was doing

Unless it's presented as well-executed unreliable narration. TvTropes explains it nicely:

Unreliable Narrator: Chapter 1 depends on this, because while the audience is privy to Kaede's thoughts during her attempted murder of Rantaro, all of the ones relevant to her plan are carefully omitted. Note that she never actually lies about what she's doing, she just doesn't elaborate — the part where she arranges the books selectively cuts off the audience's access to her thoughts at the time, she mentions within the narration that she "dropped" everything she was holding but doesn't specify the fact that she rolled a shot put ball through the vent, and all throughout the investigation, at no point does she actually express uncertainty as to who the killer is...so the audience is instead inclined not to suspect her through her (completely genuine) horror that an innocent person was killed and her desire to expose the mastermind, expose the truth, and get everyone through the trial alive.

Yes, unreliable narrators are often gimmicky and over-used (most recent popular mystery/thrillers feature one, like The girl on the train), but this was a new trope for the Danganronpa universe (which they probably won't pull off again.)

Also you're onto something for thinking the actual execution of the plan is off - the case gets reexamined in Chapter 6's trial.

[Scorpio985]

Originally posted by Kero:

well, I can believe it, I just think that it was a stupid way to kill someone, I mean, what if the flash didn't work? what if the mastermind didn't care about the flash cause, hell, he's gonna kill them all anyway so whatevs? what if the books couldn't stand the ball? what if the ball just missed because the victim was looking at the camera from a different angle? There are soooo many holes in this strategy it's a miracle (in the sense that it saved everyone else but her and Rantaro) that she manage to kill someone like that. But once again, I have no issue with that.

WHY IS IT ME WHO KILLED THAT POOR RANTARO AND I HAD NO IDEA. really that pisses me off, if you wanna make sense, just don't make us play Kaede.

The actual method isn't actually that stupid, the flash would have gone off (it was made by the ultimate inventor), the mastermind ignoring the flash could have happened. And I know the books could have withstood the shot put as long as the were encyclopedias or dictionaries. Slight possible spoilers for chapter 6 but the trial does get revisited.
The reason they made us play as Kaede was to set a precedent that no-one is safe. The makers wanted to make sure that in future games we know that we can die and we don't have plot amour. It is also to make the player have the same sense of dread fear and mistrust that the characters have. We can now question if we should trust the protag as well as every other character.
Well, that is my take away from it anyway.

[Kero~]

Ok, I can get behind the murder actually happen (still very unlikely imo, but I guess I'll understand when I get to chapter 6), still, my griefs against me not knowing what myself am doing is something I can't get behind. I understand that the writers have shown the balls in the warehouse and say to us that we did it by remaining evasive, but I still should have known imo.

I guess this would spoil the entire first trial, but it could also bring a different vision of it (like, having the first trial with unique gameplay based on the point of view of the culprit, but I guess that also could prove itself kinda frustrating since we wouldn't be able to use those mechanics later in the game).

Also, I know of people who can't get passed the first trial because they can't guess they're the culprit, and I don't think that's on their part, but on the dev parts, because your character shouldn't be, unknowingly to the player, the culprit.

I do not feel as insulted as i was at the moment, since your point of views shown me another idea, but thinking about it still get to my nerves.

The character swapping in the middle of a gameplay sequence without any warning is still a very bad gamedesign choice to me, and I don't think I could ever agree or even see why it could be a good idea. You can still try to convince me tho, I'm really open to discussion and willing to understand why people could like it when I absolutely can't.

[Kero~]

also, on the flash working because they're made by the ultimate inventor, she knew it would be used to spy on someone, even if she thought it was Monokuma and his cubs, so she could have remove the flashes for stealth purposes.

[Scorpio985]

Originally posted by Kero:

also, on the flash working because they're made by the ultimate inventor, she knew it would be used to spy on someone, even if she thought it was Monokuma and his cubs, so she could have remove the flashes for stealth purposes.

They were just modified cameras, but again, that isn't what is bugging you.
I personally don't think it was bad game design, as if it were truly bad game design, it would have swapped you without that mid sequence (you know, the one where Kaede and Shuichi have that mental heart to heart thing, I am not sure what to call it). Since this was included, I don't think it is bad game design as it clearly indicates to the player that they are switching protagonists. If they didn't include this, then yeah, it would be terrible game design. However I do understand where you are coming from, so each to there own I guess.
Also people not being able to get past the first trial because they don't think that Kaede can be the culprit, that isn't on the devs as you can clearly select Kaede, you could guess and select every single person and get to her and carry on.
In my opinion, we are always playing as Shuichi (in a sense), besides free time events, Shuichi and Kaede are always together and always have the exact same pieces of information, they start the game together and spend the rest of chapter 1 together. Playing as Kaede was a clever way of getting us into Shuichi sense of comfort around Kaede and (since we never fully trust anyone besides the character we are playing as) gives Shuichi's self doubt as for the first chapter. We are very much like Shuichi, we don't trust ourselves and the only person we trust fully, is Kaede, much the same as Shuichi is for the start of the game.