Danganronpa V3: Killing Harmony

Danganronpa V3: Killing Harmony

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Doloris Oct 12, 2017 @ 12:14pm
[Endgame Spoilers] Theories.
As I was very dissatisfied with the ending, I ended up thinking about it quite a lot. The epilogue obviously hints at the ending being a bunch of lies, and I reckon this could very well be true.

The ending heavily depends on Tsumugi's cospox. However, the cospox is so easily debunked I don't think we can blindly accept it as the truth. Just from a little bit of theorizing, I could already see two ways for the 'cospox' to be faked:

1) Considering she was aware of the plan and possibly aware they'd suspect her in some way or another, she could have prepared whatever she needed in the girls' bathroom beforehand. She asks Kaede to look away as she changes into her clothes, giving her plenty of time to do something else to cause an allergic reaction. And, remember, Tsumugi changes into a bathing suit in front of three others in the Pool scene. Isn't that strange?

2) Kaede's point of view is entirely unreliable, and thus, she could have lied about Tsumugi showing her the 'cospox' to begin with. This would mean Kaede was working with Tsumugi from the beginning. This would explain the whole 'Kaede knew the killing music video would play'. It also brings us back to the document that says she has a twin sister: what if Tsumugi is her twin sister? Tsumugi killing her off in the very beginning would suit the 'copycat crime', considering Junko killed off Mukuro at the start of the killing game.

Thoughts?
Last edited by Doloris; Oct 12, 2017 @ 12:15pm
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Ooooh, interesting theory. I never considered that they might go the Umineko route, and have everything not seen by the protagonist be questionable. I don't believe it myself, since Kaede genuinely seems like she wants to save everyone and kill the mastermind, but it's interesting nevertheless
Fyk0 Oct 14, 2017 @ 7:09am 
I hadn't thought of those theories but those are good points. I also think cospox is hoax because it could be multiple things and Tsumugi lies anything for her own benefit. I really like Kaede and don't wanna think she worked with Tsumugi, but that is possible because we didn't get to see every scene from her eyes. I really wonder if she didn't know about the music video, did she simply forget the ball makes noise?

I really hope ths game takes place after 2nd game and Tsumugi was lying and cospox is hoax. I don't want to have another Mass Effect 3 here when people gave a way too much credit for the story and came up with all kinds of indoctrination theories only to find out later that simply was the ending, which was so bad the devs bent and made extended cut later.

Because if the game ends here it makes other games and anime seasons irrelevant and leaves all loose ends completely open what happened in them. Monaca and Nagito are still out there, the world is still screwed. I want first chapter Ultra Despair Girls 2 easter egg be true and tie this game to 2nd game, which would be amazing plot twist and the game could go to anywhere from there.
Originally posted by Fyk0:
I hadn't thought of those theories but those are good points. I also think cospox is hoax because it could be multiple things and Tsumugi lies anything for her own benefit. I really like Kaede and don't wanna think she worked with Tsumugi, but that is possible because we didn't get to see every scene from her eyes. I really wonder if she didn't know about the music video, did she simply forget the ball makes noise?

I really hope ths game takes place after 2nd game and Tsumugi was lying and cospox is hoax. I don't want to have another Mass Effect 3 here when people gave a way too much credit for the story and came up with all kinds of indoctrination theories only to find out later that simply was the ending, which was so bad the devs bent and made extended cut later.

Because if the game ends here it makes other games and anime seasons irrelevant and leaves all loose ends completely open what happened in them. Monaca and Nagito are still out there, the world is still screwed. I want first chapter Ultra Despair Girls 2 easter egg be true and tie this game to 2nd game, which would be amazing plot twist and the game could go to anywhere from there.
If that was the case, then this game is just set in a different universe from the rest. It doesn't make them irrelevant, I would say. Also, DR3, the anime, tied up both Monaca and Nagito.
Fyk0 Oct 14, 2017 @ 7:21am 
Originally posted by Battler Ushiromiya:
If that was the case, then this game is just set in a different universe from the rest. It doesn't make them irrelevant, I would say. Also, DR3, the anime, tied up both Monaca and Nagito.
What happened to Monaca, did she die in the anime? I watched the season when it came out but I don't remember it too well since I watched it along with the pre-season.
Originally posted by Fyk0:
Originally posted by Battler Ushiromiya:
If that was the case, then this game is just set in a different universe from the rest. It doesn't make them irrelevant, I would say. Also, DR3, the anime, tied up both Monaca and Nagito.
What happened to Monaca, did she die in the anime? I watched the season when it came out but I don't remember it too well since I watched it along with the pre-season.
She gave up on both hope and despair and went into space. Basically, she has no motivation to fill the world with despair anymore.
Fyk0 Oct 14, 2017 @ 7:27am 
Originally posted by Battler Ushiromiya:
Originally posted by Fyk0:
What happened to Monaca, did she die in the anime? I watched the season when it came out but I don't remember it too well since I watched it along with the pre-season.
She gave up on both hope and despair and went into space. Basically, she has no motivation to fill the world with despair anymore.
Oh yeah. That could be the end of her. Oh well, since it could have been her jokes she might have not been written permamently out but I agree that ties her loose end.
Originally posted by Fyk0:
Originally posted by Battler Ushiromiya:
She gave up on both hope and despair and went into space. Basically, she has no motivation to fill the world with despair anymore.
Oh yeah. That could be the end of her. Oh well, since it could have been her jokes she might have not been written permamently out but I agree that ties her loose end.
As for Nagito, there's really nothing to worry about for him. He's not really an antagonistic force. He takes on an antagonistic role, but he's on the side of hope.
Fyk0 Oct 14, 2017 @ 7:34am 
Originally posted by Battler Ushiromiya:
Originally posted by Fyk0:
Oh yeah. That could be the end of her. Oh well, since it could have been her jokes she might have not been written permamently out but I agree that ties her loose end.
As for Nagito, there's really nothing to worry about for him. He's not really an antagonistic force. He takes on an antagonistic role, but he's on the side of hope.
He is crazy enough to be side of despair as well just to prove hope eventually wins, like he did by saving Monaca.
Originally posted by Fyk0:
Originally posted by Battler Ushiromiya:
As for Nagito, there's really nothing to worry about for him. He's not really an antagonistic force. He takes on an antagonistic role, but he's on the side of hope.
He is crazy enough to be side of despair as well just to prove hope eventually wins, like he did by saving Monaca.
To be entirely fair, he was a Remnant of Despair back then. At this point, there's nothing that would really necessitate him to causing despair. Also, he's on Jabberwock Island with the rest of 2's cast.
Fyk0 Oct 14, 2017 @ 7:49am 
Originally posted by Battler Ushiromiya:
Originally posted by Fyk0:
He is crazy enough to be side of despair as well just to prove hope eventually wins, like he did by saving Monaca.
To be entirely fair, he was a Remnant of Despair back then. At this point, there's nothing that would really necessitate him to causing despair. Also, he's on Jabberwock Island with the rest of 2's cast.
Yeah, that's true. Also the more I read about the ending of season 3 anime as reminder it really makes me think this happened in alternative universe and what Tsumugi said about it is true. Then it really does seem like end of Danganronpa, but I'm not a fan how they made it all come out of lying rule breaker mouth. Even if this is alternative universe she could still be lying and it might not be the end of it. A bit too open ending.

I started Danganronpa by watching pre-season and 3rd season simultaneously, then played all the games starting from Danganronpa 1 so my memory was a bit messed of the timeline.
Originally posted by Fyk0:
Originally posted by Battler Ushiromiya:
To be entirely fair, he was a Remnant of Despair back then. At this point, there's nothing that would really necessitate him to causing despair. Also, he's on Jabberwock Island with the rest of 2's cast.
Yeah, that's true. Also the more I read about the ending of season 3 anime as reminder it really makes me think this happened in alternative universe and what Tsumugi said about it is true. Then it really does seem like end of Danganronpa, but I'm not a fan how they made it all come out of lying rule breaker mouth. Even if this is alternative universe she could still be lying and it might not be the end of it. A bit too open ending.

I started Danganronpa by watching pre-season and 3rd season simultaneously, then played all the games starting from Danganronpa 1 so my memory was a bit messed of the timeline.
Yeah, all that's still unclear.
LightlySalted Oct 15, 2017 @ 12:04pm 
Fair theories. But I think the cosplox condition explained by Tsumugi is true and wasn't faked. As Tsumugi tries to cosplay as Kaede, she broke out cosplox because she is an actual person even though her personality and name is faked. During the ending, Tsumugi only cosplays as the past fake danganronpa characters, and none of the characters that died this game (IIRC). I'm still trying to wrap my head around the ending as I just beat it, but I assume the characters from D1 and D2 were not actual people with fake names/personalities, but just a story alltogether.
Cerebral Daemon Oct 15, 2017 @ 1:30pm 
For those interested in the topic, I'd heavily recommend having a second look at the Prologue scenes. If Tsumugi's story is to be believed, those are the characters before their transition to Ultimates, and it is... enlightening. For instance, here are a few things I've picked up :

1) Tsumugi mentions that the outside world is a world at peace. However, when pre-Ultimate Kaede recalls being kidnapped, she mentions "how rotten the world is". What they say do not match.

2) Rantaro Amami. He would apparently be the "Ultimate Survivor", someone who would've survived (at least) one of the Killing Games between the 3rd to the 52nd. If that is true, it would explain why he seemed to recognize the situation, even as a pre-Ultimate. However, what's surprising is that the others in the room should at that point in time be hardcore Danganronpa fans who volunteered to join the Killing Game. Why, in that case, are none of them recognizing Rantaro? The footage at the trial about what happened after that point, where they are all glad to be chosen for the Killing Game, should clearly mean they remember Danganronpa at that moment, yet Kaede's reaction when she meets Rantaro is... lackluster, to say the least. Their behavior doesn't match the situation Tsumugi describes they are in, which severely puts into question whether the footage she showed is even real to begin with.

3) Tsumugi is among the students in the Prologue. Looking past everything she says in the sixth trial, this would mean, if we consider at least the basis of what she says as true, that she herself is also a character built for the sake of the game. If that's true, then her own memories are just as unreliable as the rest of the cast. In other words, what she vehemently believe to be the truth may very well contain some lies after all.

4) Shuichi's and Miu's personalities somewhat stand out during the Prologue. Shuichi's behavior does not fit the footage shown to us during the trial, and Miu's personality is, well... Miu's; there's no distinction between the personality she has at that point and the one she has throughout the rest of the game. The same applies, to a lesser extent, to the rest of the cast.

5) When asked whether they are Ultimates by the Monokubs, Kaede says she is not an Ultimate, but does mention having a talent she devotes herself to. This is a weird detail to add to her lines, especially given how much it'd fit well into the Ultimate Hunt description given to us and how they escaped from it.

As for the points concerning Cospox, I cannot provide a definitive answer on whether that is the truth or a lie, but I agree that a lot of Tsumugi's statements rely on that being the truth; if it were a lie, Danganronpa's cast being fictional would be brought back into question, which would also bring back into question most conclusions reached during the trial.
LightlySalted Oct 15, 2017 @ 3:20pm 
1. That kidnapping memory may have been implanted. It was to mask that they voluntarily went there to audition.

2. I think you are missing an important detail that the Monokubs messed up the first flashback light. The flashback scene when they were happy they were chosen (in the gym) is the first time they met each other. They don't interact with each other iirc, they just say they are happy to be there. Then the Monokubs wipe their memories to start the game. Then what was suppose to happen is that they are given their backstory and ultimates from the start, but the Monokubs forgot give their ultimates + clothes. This is the epilogue you see, so at this point, they won't know Rantaro.

3. It is possible that Tsumugi is also a fake character, but she may also have exempted herself since the beginning. She is like the overseer of this game afterall, and she was already aware of the outside world. The flashback lights wouldn't work on her since she already knows everything.

4. Same as point 2. The prologue you see, everyone already has their personality implanted.

5. Kind of contradicts my point 2, when Kaede says she doesn't have a ultimate but devotes to a talent, that is a weird comment to make at that point when her memory should've been erased. So I will speculate that at the prologue, everyone's memories is not fully wiped. Since the Monokubs messed up on giving their ultimates, they may have also not fully wiped their memories. Because Kaede says something like, "Wait, so you are the Monokubs, that means..." So she does remember some things she shouldn't have.
Cerebral Daemon Oct 15, 2017 @ 4:26pm 
Originally posted by LightlySalted:
1. That kidnapping memory may have been implanted. It was to mask that they voluntarily went there to audition.
Wrong. The kidnapping memory was there during the Prologue, they could clearly recall they were kidnapped at that point. However, at the very start of Chapter 1, when Shuichi and Kaede try to recall how they got there like they did during the Prologue, they couldn't find the answer; the memory had been erased. There'd be no reason to add that memory during the accidental "you-guys-aren't-Ultimates-yet" part if they were to remove it again five minutes later for the actual game, and this proves the kidnapping memory was definitely real.

Originally posted by LightlySalted:
I think you are missing an important detail that the Monokubs messed up the first flashback light. The flashback scene when they were happy they were chosen (in the gym) is the first time they met each other. They don't interact with each other iirc, they just say they are happy to be there. Then the Monokubs wipe their memories to start the game. Then what was suppose to happen is that they are given their backstory and ultimates from the start, but the Monokubs forgot give their ultimates + clothes. This is the epilogue you see, so at this point, they won't know Rantaro.
The Monokubs indeed messed up the first Flashback Light, however the scene at the gym when they were chosen is definitely the same as the Prologue, that's both told by Tsumugi during the trial and shown by the fact that the gym scene starts with the exact same dialogue lines the Prologue ends with. That's no mistake, those two scenes are connected to each other, and it confirms they should have remembered Rantaro's identity (yet they clearly didn't).

(I assume you probably don't remember the exact lines from Tsumugi right before the cutscene (I didn't either, had to doublecheck xD), so here's a link to it. This link should bring you at the right moment in the video but in case it doesn't, it's at 2 hours, 26 minutes and 15 seconds.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poTc_5urQOU&ab_channel=justonegamr&t=8775s

Originally posted by LightlySalted:
3. It is possible that Tsumugi is also a fake character, but she may also have exempted herself since the beginning. She is like the overseer of this game afterall, and she was already aware of the outside world. The flashback lights wouldn't work on her since she already knows everything.
Given what I mentioned for point 2, there's no mistake that she is a character herself, too. It does, however, points to her being subjected to a very different Flashback Light than the others were, at the very beginning. Still, there's no doubts her memories are the result of a Flashback Light like the others, which means they can be just as fake as everything else. (EDIT: Plus, after looking back at the trial once more, she actually admits she is a fictional character, too, meant to "bring excitement to the killing game". I guess that one wasn't a mystery at all, in the end)

Originally posted by LightlySalted:
4. Same as point 2. The prologue you see, everyone already has their personality implanted.
They don't, for the reasons I referred at point 2. Those personalities should be their real ones.

Originally posted by LightlySalted:
5. Kind of contradicts my point 2, when Kaede says she doesn't have a ultimate but devotes to a talent, that is a weird comment to make at that point when her memory should've been erased. So I will speculate that at the prologue, everyone's memories is not fully wiped. Since the Monokubs messed up on giving their ultimates, they may have also not fully wiped their memories. Because Kaede says something like, "Wait, so you are the Monokubs, that means..." So she does remember some things she shouldn't have.
According to Tsumugi's story (and, as mentioned in my explanation at point 2, the fact that both the Prologue and the gym scene she shows are connected), their memories shouldn't have been wiped out at that point, otherwise there's no way they would've recalled the Killing Game and Danganronpa in general. However, I do agree with you, that there's something weird definitely going on with their memories, that much is obvious from Kaede's dialogue before coming out of the locker. There's definitely a contradiction here, but the solution to that contradiction tends to point at Tsumugi's recording being falsified in some way, since that's the one explanation which ties everything else together.
Last edited by Cerebral Daemon; Oct 15, 2017 @ 4:44pm
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