When/Where do i start getting better mage/healer pacts?

[<color=#CD3210>Lunatic]

Im currently on the quest to retrieve a part from each of the first 3 dungeons, having just used the break wall at the very start of the well to reveal the entrance to levels 4 and 5 of the first dungeon to get owlboy to give me one of the parts.

I foolishly (even with a protector 3 peerless suns defence team, a mud manner maze team and a witch group bushido team) went down through the level 4 and 5 areas filled with those life stealing slimes with 1.7-2.3k hp and those 1.4k chipmunks and those 4.2k walls of flesh.

I had to mud exit, was just too hard, i need stronger fire/fog group/all magic and stronger healing/all magic to really get through it.

Not even sure if i should, my party level is around 25-28.

[SleepingSeaweed]

You should find the Sheer Star pact soon in your current area if you don't have it yet, it can only use a single Theatrical Star for active slots but it has all healing and all fog damage.

At the 6th floor of Rosatempus (6th area) you'll find what's essentially the end all be all of mage pacts, called the White Rose pact. A second copy is available from a quest, can't recall if it's available before the postgame though.

And yeah there's no point in going to Campanula lower floors where you're currently at, even if you can handle the enemies you don't really get anything for it.

You can find a lot of info about the game in the Labyrinth of Refrain compendium linked in guides, if you don't mind some slight content spoilers (well, non-story content)

[<color=#CD3210>Lunatic]

Originally posted by SleepingSeaweed:

You should find the Sheer Star pact soon in your current area if you don't have it yet, it can only use a single Theatrical Star for active slots but it has all healing and all fog damage.

At the 6th floor of Rosatempus (6th area) you'll find what's essentially the end all be all of mage pacts, called the White Rose pact. A second copy is available from a quest, can't recall if it's available before the postgame though.

And yeah there's no point in going to Campanula lower floors where you're currently at, even if you can handle the enemies you don't really get anything for it.

You can find a lot of info about the game in the Labyrinth of Refrain compendium linked in guides, if you don't mind some slight content spoilers (well, non-story content)

I didnt think the compendium guide was a walkthrough but ill look into it.

Since this post i made numerous strides to exp stock 16+ at 2.99x the metallic things in the hero area of the third zone for around 150k exp per run, and got my 8 attackers up to lv42.

BUT again, its less about those incremental stat increases which does help mitigate damage received and dealt, and more about needing better gear and spells.

As is, the main only reason my mud mage is top dps, is because RNG, getting 2 wunders from dlc on the mage helped her DMP and available DP, but also rng helped get her 2 more legendary items that boosted her DMP to be higher then combined 2 raptors DMP. So she can hit a group for 1k damage with an ineffective spell, or crit 4k for an effective hit.

But thats still not enough for campanula B4+

And the only reason my bushido is my 2nd top dps is because a random blue chest in zone 2 dropped a legendary red sword with 900dmg.....so he became my high hit/crit slasher, if the mobs encountered are varied, i dont auto and specify a target just for him to execute to minimise action wastage, because its pointless if 3 other characters hit the same target only to get it to 30% hp left and he finishes it where as he could 1 shot it on the get go.

But yeah, i digress, it's mostly just a massive rng grind. Also, most of my dps are moon and have despair luck, i dont get gored often, but i dont crit nearly as often as my stats say i should either.

Combo 70% crit chance weapon and 35% crit chance accessory, should mean perma crit, but despair doesnt let you perma crit, weird stats and i just cant find anyone posted a full description of all game mechanics anywhere.

These kinds of games dont get popular enough for wikis.

NIS really pushes alot of the same content, disgaa type anime strategy rpgs that are just so in depth with theorycraft and game mechanics its a shame there's no frame of reference for all the details i want.

Thanks for letting me know about the theatrical star pact, and the eventual rose mage pact.

[SleepingSeaweed]

The compendium is a bit of everything, it doesn't go very in depth but it does bring up the most important mechanics.

I wouldn't recommend grinding for soul clarity before the postgame, but if you do you can at least hold off until a specific section of Umbra Towers where you can find multiple ringa metallias per battle

As for crit, it doesn't depend only on your crit chance because there's also crit resistance. Getting crit gores on bosses is ridiculously powerful which is probably why it's balanced to be somewhat difficult to achieve.

[<color=#CD3210>Lunatic]

Well i just created a SC4 hammer class with triple S in STR & HP, and used the symbiote and a couple runs of the zone 3 metal to raise her to lv40.

I also found the umbra towers portal, but am upto the bee in the garden.

Thinking i might go track down the metal slime farm in umbra and raise my attackers to lv60 or so.

[<color=#CD3210>Lunatic]

But really any advise you have for getting legendary weapons is what i really need.

Some high power 1k dmg beastly affix legendary weapons for hammer, bell, lamp and crossbow is what i really NEED.

[SleepingSeaweed]

Originally posted by Lunatic Heretic:

But really any advise you have for getting legendary weapons is what i really need.

You could place a mud exit in front of key chests that have the weapons you want and reset for desired affixes.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tQMOVtDrJnyqAGC4wdkZP1d8eI7E6CqHWP3B-IHa1XU/edit?gid=0#gid=0

As part of the Umbra story you also get something like a starter pack of legendary gear to outfit your brigade with, and a special 2-handed sword that can hit groups, but it's mostly notable for giving you better armors.

I've come to start thinking the attack value of weapons isn't that important though, at least beyond a certain point. As far as I can tell weapon stats are simply added on top of the puppet's stats, which means it mainly makes a difference in the early game and drops off in significance the more their base stats increase. Secondary attributes like crit, stun chance and the weapon's element would be more important in that case.

Also I can assure you Marginal Mazes are broken even without specific gear, of course with the restriction that you can't restore DP inside the dungeon. And just in case you don't know, their passive to increase donum power stacks with each one you have in a coven, including from the ones that are in support slots.

Originally posted by Lunatic Heretic:

Also, most of my dps are moon and have despair luck, i dont get gored often, but i dont crit nearly as often as my stats say i should either.

Moon stance is a bit of a trap, it nerfs your max HP to 60% of normal and it's really punishing against some of the later bosses. Classes with natural S HP growth can handle it, and the extra DMP is very nice for Marginal Mazes, but the extra weapon ranks only really matter for triggering specific passives, which mainly comes into play with soul transferring skills, in which case you can just transfer the corresponding weapon master passive instead. So aside from Sun for Fortress and Moon for Maze, standard stance is the best choice in the majority of cases.

For grinding you'd really want the Heaps of Exp or Heaps of Exp G pacts, which drop from rare mana over bosses (they're easy to defeat, unlike the reapers). You can trigger mana over pretty quickly by collecting it one of the later areas and going to Campanula through the antechamber without going back to base.

[<color=#CD3210>Lunatic]

Well uh, i reached the top floor of umbra and her generous advance payment gave 8 of my characters a nice boost.

I have since been using tactician pact with 3 marginal mazes all above 800dmp, and they just 1 shot most pack encounters for 27-32 dp with a 1900dp cap. I have a dark pact, but its only 1 attacker slot and double donum costs but the spells are all tier 2 of tactician, tacticians better imo.

My tank pact consists of 2 peerless with a hammer class supported by another peerless for 1.5x defense. Their my ready to farm metal team. But my marginals and my healer also have blunt so....

I didnt know you could save scum the affix and rarity of a chest drop. But yeah my bushidos are both high agi/dex/luck with dual wield swords between 250-450dmg so by design they either crit or double hit.

My failure team, not the best dps, somewhat good for applying startle and abyss, are my twin raptors, and poison arrow for 70dp out of 650cap isnt that bad in some boss fights the boss gets poisoned and takes 1-2k per turn lol. Still not the greats dps team but they too are high agi/dex and crit often, but their crossbows really suck, suuuuuuuuuck, under 200 attack zzzz.

I didnt realize that two handed swords hit the whole group like scythes and bells, i'll consider it.

When both my bushido hit lv99 ill transfer them into reapers.

Now that last bit i was unaware of, see early in my playthrough i went over mana on campanula 2 and before i could reach the well exit, a reaper one shot my team, and i thought awesome, wont do that again, but later a witch petition came up for bringing mana into the lab with you, now that makes sense with your reveal, "mana over bosses" are they like purple eye spawns when your mana is over?

Would using the increased loot drop spell on mana over bosses be a good farm?

With maxed escape petition can you flee reapers and use mist to avoid them?

[SleepingSeaweed]

My tank pact consists of 2 peerless with a hammer class supported by another peerless for 1.5x defense.

For farming that's fine, but for general use it's usually better to put the hammer user in a different coven so the fortresses can defend without losing your attacks.

I didnt know you could save scum the affix and rarity of a chest drop.

iirc the rarity is fixed and only the affix is random

I didnt realize that two handed swords hit the whole group like scythes and bells, i'll consider it.

They don't, it's just that one sword.

"mana over bosses" are they like purple eye spawns when your mana is over?

I'm talking about the big eyes (only ever red I'm pretty sure) that appear when mana is over the limit, the encounter can be either reapers or another special enemy, and unfortunately the only way to tell them apart is to go into battle with them.

Would using the increased loot drop spell on mana over bosses be a good farm?

The pact is a normal dropped item so I believe that should work

With maxed escape petition can you flee reapers and use mist to avoid them?

Not sure which petition that is

[<color=#CD3210>Lunatic]

Originally posted by SleepingSeaweed:

My tank pact consists of 2 peerless with a hammer class supported by another peerless for 1.5x defense.

For farming that's fine, but for general use it's usually better to put the hammer user in a different coven so the fortresses can defend without losing your attacks.

I didnt know you could save scum the affix and rarity of a chest drop.

iirc the rarity is fixed and only the affix is random

I didnt realize that two handed swords hit the whole group like scythes and bells, i'll consider it.

They don't, it's just that one sword.

"mana over bosses" are they like purple eye spawns when your mana is over?

I'm talking about the big eyes (only ever red I'm pretty sure) that appear when mana is over the limit, the encounter can be either reapers or another special enemy, and unfortunately the only way to tell them apart is to go into battle with them.

Would using the increased loot drop spell on mana over bosses be a good farm?

The pact is a normal dropped item so I believe that should work

With maxed escape petition can you flee reapers and use mist to avoid them?

Not sure which petition that is

How far into the game are you right now or are you just mucking around?

I just beat alice on my 1st try, ♥♥♥♥♥ was hard, kept aoe 450-650dmg to my non tanks, had to individual use jittery bugs to revive, i got lucky with a gore hit near the end for 5k dmg.

So now i gotta find 2 items, no idea where to begin, didnt find a single antechamber throughout the entire umbra tower exploration, use the joker card on alice so i assume theres another fight back at her throne room.

There's one exclamation mark in the north on the same floor as the prison but no idea how to reach it.

Thinking i might finally do campanula floors 6+ and maybe the holy mausoleum below meln.

Other then that i could pump the difficulty to nightmare and farm the metals/manas on floor 5 of umbra, i always leave one mud exit over there now to farm exp/mana. Though 60% of 50k isnt fair, but earning that 50k is fast since there are heaps of mana bug encounters.

[SleepingSeaweed]

Originally posted by Lunatic Heretic:

How far into the game are you right now or are you just mucking around?

Played through it a few times, including the post game content

So now i gotta find 2 items, no idea where to begin, didnt find a single antechamber throughout the entire umbra tower exploration, use the joker card on alice so i assume theres another fight back at her throne room.

There's one exclamation mark in the north on the same floor as the prison but no idea how to reach it.

There's a path among the darkened rooms. You may have to break some walls, not sure about that though.
You'll find Alice there as well

[<color=#CD3210>Lunatic]

Originally posted by SleepingSeaweed:

Originally posted by Lunatic Heretic:

How far into the game are you right now or are you just mucking around?

Played through it a few times, including the post game content

So now i gotta find 2 items, no idea where to begin, didnt find a single antechamber throughout the entire umbra tower exploration, use the joker card on alice so i assume theres another fight back at her throne room.

There's one exclamation mark in the north on the same floor as the prison but no idea how to reach it.

There's a path among the darkened rooms. You may have to break some walls, not sure about that though.
You'll find Alice there as well

Yeah i also bought labyrinth of whatever its sequel name is.

I accidentally stumbled on yunon in the mausoleum she killed everyone except my theatrical, she had like 900 avoidance 99% all resist and 2k charm, for whatever reaason 40 something attacks missed her.

If i fail to farm/grind for 15 members at SC60+ each to do all the postgame and ubers, ill just head off to the sequel.

Also yeah i beat maggot alice with ease. Am on the 2nd area of the dream.

[<color=#CD3210>Lunatic]

Bloody hell umbra was freaking huge

[SleepingSeaweed]

You need a pact with a special skill to remove protection from the mausoleum boss. It directly mentions her in the description, so you'll know when you get it.

[<color=#CD3210>Lunatic]

Originally posted by SleepingSeaweed:

You need a pact with a special skill to remove protection from the mausoleum boss. It directly mentions her in the description, so you'll know when you get it.

Yeah i kinda figured that, most of the areas of this game have like a more difficult extra depth dungeon with some kind of super boss. There's something at the bottom of campanula floor 7 and there's that giant pecoro in the autumn zone, and they each have something weird about them, but thats just my theory, plus ive stumbled on comments on other posts about some kind of terror boss the black wanderer.

Knowing NIS, theres bound to be some really tough risk/reward fights, i remember getting laharl and a few classes into level 8000 in disgaea 1 to fight baal and uber prinny baal.

This game though, extremely long enduring dungeons with easymode random fights, but then real hard ass bosses you need reinforcement buffs, debuffing, status effect procs and figuring out their weakness while somehow displacing aggro and keeping the whole brigade alive.

I live the story as weird as its been so far, and am theorising whom lucas parents are, or what she is, but im still a bit on the fence about soul clarity exp grindage and the difficulty spike for the upcoming dungeons and bosses and post game content i keep reading about.

But so far im considering some combinations of bushido/capo/demon transfers with SC57 stats. But as for my marginals i might just transfer them back into marginals, im thinking two 3man marginal teams are better then marginal>raptor>marginal. idk.

If i beat the last boss as is somehow and get clear data i might just play the sequel i already own.

Since apparently it has optional advanced classes per class and 14 total base classes and multitudes more game mechanics.

+ id have a better start knowing just how useful luck is and how only peerless need suns and maze need moons.