House Escher Sabotuer

[Volpe]

Im having some trouble as to how i can/should equip an escher saboteur.
The flamer and cryogun sound nice, but escher has an emphasis on one handed weapons;
so im thinking 2 pistols or a single pistol, as I dont want to split the stats more than i have to between ranged and melee.
Question is, which makes the most sense?
Any help or comments would be appreciated

[FlameWar]

Well, a few things here:

1) You nearly always want to go with 1-hand stuff as Escher. the passives ar ejust to good to pass up on imo.

2) Dual Wielding either melee or rnaged has very limtied benefits.
You get a bit mroe front loaded damage due to two magaziesn compared to one, but sicne you also pay for realoding two wepaons instead of oen when they run dry the difference is very small.
Similary, the benefit from having two different dmaage types/effect types is low imo.
The only real benefit is if you got some strong one-off Ap cost reductions that are % based, as then you can get the reduction form the 30 AP for dual wielding instead of from the 15 AP for just one hand. Though I find as Escher I didn't have that many of them.

3) Definitely skill the null grenade early on the escher saboteur. the 1-handing will mean mroe htis o nthe enemy no matter if solo or dual wielding, so their stacking deffensiv ebuffs can stack fast.
There's also a bug aorund currently with randomly stacking glaze hit chances in melee I encountered yesterday which you can't do anything about, but the Null nade will at least help with the unbugged cases. (and with Iron will, which the AI seems to like a lot later on)


Overall, I'd go with a chainsword and pistol combo. The chainsword works fairly well even with mediocre melee stats, as so far I ofund no stat that actually influences the secondary effects liek bleeding, so oyu get full value even on a not that melee specced fighter.

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by FlameWar:

Well, a few things here:

1) You nearly always want to go with 1-hand stuff as Escher. the passives ar ejust to good to pass up on imo.

2) Dual Wielding either melee or rnaged has very limtied benefits.
You get a bit mroe front loaded damage due to two magaziesn compared to one, but sicne you also pay for realoding two wepaons instead of oen when they run dry the difference is very small.
Similary, the benefit from having two different dmaage types/effect types is low imo.
The only real benefit is if you got some strong one-off Ap cost reductions that are % based, as then you can get the reduction form the 30 AP for dual wielding instead of from the 15 AP for just one hand. Though I find as Escher I didn't have that many of them.

3) Definitely skill the null grenade early on the escher saboteur. the 1-handing will mean mroe htis o nthe enemy no matter if solo or dual wielding, so their stacking deffensiv ebuffs can stack fast.
There's also a bug aorund currently with randomly stacking glaze hit chances in melee I encountered yesterday which you can't do anything about, but the Null nade will at least help with the unbugged cases. (and with Iron will, which the AI seems to like a lot later on)


Overall, I'd go with a chainsword and pistol combo. The chainsword works fairly well even with mediocre melee stats, as so far I ofund no stat that actually influences the secondary effects liek bleeding, so oyu get full value even on a not that melee specced fighter.

About number 2, Escher does have some pretty good ones. I just dont think they fit well with the Saboteur.


The Saboteur is the "master carry" in every gang, potentially getting mulitple buffs for picking stuff up and still being able to use their abilities even when running around with 2 boxes/objectives on their shoulders. By that point, any passive that focus on "one-handed weapons" do no longer work. Just something to keep in mind if you intend to use them in that role.


Anyway, currently I using a Hand Flamer + Sword, but rarely uses the weapons except for ambush or overwatch. Will probably switch to Hand Flamer + Unarmed, or Laspistol + Unarmed just to get better initiative.

[Volpe]

2 very useful answers and so fast too, thanks guys;
so, coming to think: hitting once with dual costs the same AP as hitting twice with a single weapon, right?
Therefore, does it make sense to go 1 weapon only and have the extra INI?

[Adeon Hawkwood]

I normally run my Saboteur with a Pistol and Melee weapon (generally Autopistol and Spudjacker). IMHO the spread weapons aren't really worth using, the damage is pretty low and the debuffs aren't that great.

I use the saboteur's skills more than their weapons, especially chem-synth and homemade grenade. It's possible to run with pistol and unarmed for higher initiative, but I find that Saboteur's have high enough initiative anyway so it's not a big deal, although I play Orlock rather than Escher so YMMV there. I do like having the flexibility to engage in either ranged or melee as the situation requires though.

[Adeon Hawkwood]

Originally posted by FlameWar:

2) Dual Wielding either melee or rnaged has very limtied benefits.

I think that dual wielding melee has more benefit than ranged. I like to run my brawler with one high stun weapon (currently a shock maul) and one that's more damage focused (currently a power sword for armor pen). Since being stunned removes evasion I can hit them with the stun weapon first and then switch to the other weapon once they are stunned.

[melkathi]

I run mine with a hand flamer and spudjacker but mostly use her Sab skills. Homemade Explosives are great. Traps are fun on the right maps.
I have the spudjacker on her for the high stun chance. If she gets charged and survives, she can get a hit in and may stun her opponent before disengaging and running away.

[FlameWar]

Originally posted by Adeon Hawkwood:

Originally posted by FlameWar:

2) Dual Wielding either melee or rnaged has very limtied benefits.

I think that dual wielding melee has more benefit than ranged. I like to run my brawler with one high stun weapon (currently a shock maul) and one that's more damage focused (currently a power sword for armor pen). Since being stunned removes evasion I can hit them with the stun weapon first and then switch to the other weapon once they are stunned.

True, but it also ocsts you as Escher. If you don't have a pistol equiped you can't use the passive for extra melee evasion, which is pretty good imo.
But comes down to preference in the end. Maximise melee or ranged, or go mixed for maximum versatility (and extra buff si nthe case of Escher)

[Lead Paintchips]

Personally, been running my Sabos with dual las pistols, that way I can at least grab the crate and still have the option to overwatch while running around towards objectives.

Reason for the las pistols is the other one handed options for them just don't do enough damage compared to the las pistol.

I tried running with just one pistol and an empty hand, but I found that there wasn't enough killing power against a lone target in case I needed to drop someone carrying two objectives to stop them from getting away.

[Kmany]

I have not min maxed anything.. just chilling and light rping my gang.. but I found a two handed flame gun that was okay.. atleast at the point I am in the game..
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2229859655

[Kmany]

hmm that screen is from the campaign i guess not from my operation lol

[Ingvar]

I run mine with an auto pistol and no off hand. She's there to buff up and heal my other gangers, debuff the enemy and secure supplies that's it. If I could find a decent hand flamer I'd probably run that instead.

[Bamboot]

Sabo is the ultimate grenadier, so much so that weapons become less relevant. I keep one hand flamer equipped or in pack for close encounters, but generally it’s all about throwing your nades, maybe with a pistol for occasional over watch. The flamer etc is mostly good for the AE, but your nades have better range and similar AE. Pro tip you can throw nades even when carrying crates on both shoulders.
So, I’d put all exp into nades and nade buffing skills and make it rain from the catwalks.

[Ingvar]

Originally posted by 123:

Sabo is the ultimate grenadier, so much so that weapons become less relevant. I keep one hand flamer equipped or in pack for close encounters, but generally it’s all about throwing your nades, maybe with a pistol for occasional over watch. The flamer etc is mostly good for the AE, but your nades have better range and similar AE. Pro tip you can throw nades even when carrying crates on both shoulders.
So, I’d put all exp into nades and nade buffing skills and make it rain from the catwalks.

This

[QueenMab]

It depends on how you've built them. I enjoy traps. You need to have a weapon out to apply the toxin on turn start, though I'm not sure if it stays from then on or not so could always juggle. I like high crit and an autopistol to roll the dice a few times. Putting down a trap and walking back enough to either apply the pinned condition or overwatch can lock down a given route pretty well.

Having the melee weapon for that back and forth if it occurs is nice, spudjacker's stun allows you to draw things out. Putting traps at the base of ziplines also makes them annoying. Coagulant stops the DoT on yourself if you want to go for a clever ruse or chose all things poorly and need to run away. The debuffs from the sab weapons could fit into certain builds. There are the one handed versions which can keep the melee evasion buff up and still have options.

But the real answer is chem thrower, we all know that. Just gotta gamble for it, so whatever ups your gambling potential seems like the best option atm.

[FlameWar]

Originally posted by Lead Paintchips:

I tried running with just one pistol and an empty hand, but I found that there wasn't enough killing power against a lone target in case I needed to drop someone carrying two objectives to stop them from getting away.

That actually makes no sense. Shooting 1 laspistol costs 15 AP. Shooting 2 Pistols at once costs 30 Ap. So either way, 15 Ap per shot.