What's the point of dual wielding?

[FlameWar]

Well, pretty much the title. I tried dual wielding either pistols or 1h melee weapons, and it seems like it's mostly pointless.
You get twice the attacks/shoots, but since the AP are also added together, you pay exactly as much as just getting a single 1 hand wepaon and shooting/striking twice for half the AP cost each. Same with ammo, where you start with twice the ammo since each pistol has it's own magazine, but you also pay for reloading each, so not much difference there.

Am I missing something or is the choice basically to bring a 2 hand weapon or just bring both a pistol and a 1 hand melee weapon? (or just leave the second hand free )

Edit:
First, to clarify sicne peopel seem to misread this a lot: I am NOT talkind about 2 hand vs 1 hand weapons. I am specificaly tlakign about DUAL wielding as it's normaly understood, so 2 pistols OR 2 melee wepaons. NOT 2 hand wepaons or mixing a pistol and melee.

Second to sum up the results so far:
Benefits that were found so far with dual wield compared to mixing rnaged and melee 1-hands are that you can mix damage types to pick and choose depending on enemy resists, and that you can have more ammunition/stabiltiy 'pre-loaded' so to speak for wepaons that use ammo.
Oh, and if you use the Heroci skil lfor multipel attacks/shoots, it is obviously better to have either a 2 hand wepaon or dual wield either rnaged or melee, as that gives you maximum result fro mthat skill.

[Kelset]

You can apply bleeds with some melee, you can still disengage and shoot and flee (which all this game is based upon unless you're on buff stacks to go in for the kill). You can have 2 different damage types to counter armor resistances (very situational). But yes, it's not optimal to have ranged + melee unless it's a backup equipment for ranged specialized characters that are about to get ganked. It's very situational, it also depends on the skills being used, well only on the skills used, and the buffs received. We might have some depth here, but it's largely obsolete when there's way more effective ways to get around this kind of issues.

[glenn3e]

There is a Ganger skill that when you shoot with a one handed ranged weapon, it drasically lowers the AP cost of the next melee skill.

[FlameWar]

Originally posted by Kelset:

You can apply bleeds with some melee, you can still disengage and shoot and flee (which all this game is based upon unless you're on buff stacks to go in for the kill). You can have 2 different damage types to counter armor resistances (very situational). But yes, it's not optimal to have ranged + melee unless it's a backup equipment for ranged specialized characters that are about to get ganked. It's very situational, it also depends on the skills being used, well only on the skills used, and the buffs received. We might have some depth here, but it's largely obsolete when there's way more effective ways to get around this kind of issues.

Thanks for the reply, but I think oyu missed what I meant. I can udnerstand the ebenfits and drawbacks of having a 1-hand melee wepaon and a pistol at the same time. I am wondering if there is any benefit to dual wielding either 2 pistols OR 2 1-hand melee weapons.

Though yeah, havign two different wepaons against different reistsanced probbaly might be sligthly usable in higher levels where the enemy has grade 4 or 5 armor.

[FlameWar]

Originally posted by glenn3e:

There is a Ganger skill that when you shoot with a one handed ranged weapon, it drasically lowers the AP cost of the next melee skill.

Aye. But again, that's for wielding a ranged and a melee wepaon at the smae time, not dual wielding one or the other.

[Kelset]

Originally posted by glenn3e:

There is a Ganger skill that when you shoot with a one handed ranged weapon, it drasically lowers the AP cost of the next melee skill.

Yes, stuff like that, but again, as it stands today, there are better options and builds. Also you can't shoot if engaged at the target you're engaged with so still you have to go.

[Kelset]

Originally posted by FlameWar:

Originally posted by glenn3e:

There is a Ganger skill that when you shoot with a one handed ranged weapon, it drasically lowers the AP cost of the next melee skill.

Aye. But again, that's for wielding a ranged and a melee wepaon at the smae time, not dual wielding one or the other.

Dual wielding for melee is VERY good for stacking bleeding dots. They're deadly.

[glenn3e]

Originally posted by FlameWar:

Originally posted by glenn3e:

There is a Ganger skill that when you shoot with a one handed ranged weapon, it drasically lowers the AP cost of the next melee skill.

Aye. But again, that's for wielding a ranged and a melee wepaon at the smae time, not dual wielding one or the other.

Leader Heroic skill uses both hand weapons and hit with them 3x. You can only use them once a turn, so its best dual wielded.

There is one for melee, and one for ranged. Also, a Brawler with Charge will swing with both hands.

[FlameWar]

Originally posted by Kelset:

Originally posted by FlameWar:

Aye. But again, that's for wielding a ranged and a melee wepaon at the smae time, not dual wielding one or the other.

Dual wielding for melee is VERY good for stacking bleeding dots. They're deadly.

But do oyu actually bring more bleeding with 1 hand melee weapons? Since as far as I can tell, every attack skill simply doubles in cost when you use 2 weapons instead of 1. So you apply twice the amoutn of dots, but also need twice the Ap. So oyu could simpyl strike twice with 1 weapon for the same cost/result?

Originally posted by glenn3e:

Leader Heroic skill uses both hand weapons and hit with them 3x. You can only use them once a turn, so its best dual wielded.

There is one for melee, and one for ranged.

Hm, didn#t think of that. so at least for a leader it might be worth it not to mix.

[Kelset]

Originally posted by FlameWar:

Originally posted by Kelset:

Dual wielding for melee is VERY good for stacking bleeding dots. They're deadly.

But do oyu actually bring more bleeding with 1 hand melee weapons? Since as far as I can tell, every attack skill simply doubles in cost when you use 2 weapons instead of 1. So you apply twice the amoutn of dots, but also need twice the Ap. So oyu could simpyl strike twice with 1 weapon for the same cost/result?

There's skills that allow you to make a lot of attack with melee dual wield at low costs compared to their respective strike counterpart even if 2handed, that also work good with stacking crits and reducing grazes. That's for bleeds, arguably you might prefer a heavy hitting 2h weapon, which is some cases is better, as I said it depends on your choice on how you wanna kill and cause /effect you want to generate. All this is anyways in my opinion too early to discuss, as the game needs tweaking and things will change (I hope). for now experiment with the most fun way to play for you, it's the best way to see things atm.

[glenn3e]

Originally posted by FlameWar:

Originally posted by Kelset:

Dual wielding for melee is VERY good for stacking bleeding dots. They're deadly.

But do oyu actually bring more bleeding with 1 hand melee weapons? Since as far as I can tell, every attack skill simply doubles in cost when you use 2 weapons instead of 1. So you apply twice the amoutn of dots, but also need twice the Ap. So oyu could simpyl strike twice with 1 weapon for the same cost/result?

Originally posted by glenn3e:

Leader Heroic skill uses both hand weapons and hit with them 3x. You can only use them once a turn, so its best dual wielded.

There is one for melee, and one for ranged.

Hm, didn#t think of that. so at least for a leader it might be worth it not to mix.

Yeah I have a Dead eye dual wielding Autopistol/Boltgun. She empties her ammo with one shot of the skill, and one shots opponent’s leaders.

[FlameWar]

Originally posted by Kelset:

There's skills that allow you to make a lot of attack with melee dual wield at low costs compared to their respective strike counterpart even if 2handed, that also work good with stacking crits and reducing grazes. That's for bleeds, arguably you might prefer a heavy hitting 2h weapon, which is some cases is better, as I said it depends on your choice on how you wanna kill and cause /effect you want to generate.

Which are those? besides the heroic skill Glenn3e mentioned, my testing so far shoiws all the other skilsl use the 2 hand cost when you dual wield, which seems to alway sbe exactly twice of the 1 hand cost.

[Kelset]

Originally posted by FlameWar:

Originally posted by Kelset:

There's skills that allow you to make a lot of attack with melee dual wield at low costs compared to their respective strike counterpart even if 2handed, that also work good with stacking crits and reducing grazes. That's for bleeds, arguably you might prefer a heavy hitting 2h weapon, which is some cases is better, as I said it depends on your choice on how you wanna kill and cause /effect you want to generate.

Which are those? besides the heroic skill Glenn3e mentioned, my testing so far shoiws all the other skilsl use the 2 hand cost when you dual wield, which seems to alway sbe exactly twice of the 1 hand cost.

It's the heoric skill, and other I was using with Escher now I can't remember , i had to erase that warband because of a bug, plus you can be buffed to spend less AP points and stack more Bleeds since 1h weapons with both can perform more attack per AP point spent. With dual wield melee in 1 turn attack I got 30 stacks of bleeds on a guy for a total of 80damage next activation, if I remember correctly. I have to be in the game to tell you how i did it, now I don't have it on this machine.

[FlameWar]

Originally posted by Kelset:

Originally posted by FlameWar:

Which are those? besides the heroic skill Glenn3e mentioned, my testing so far shoiws all the other skilsl use the 2 hand cost when you dual wield, which seems to alway sbe exactly twice of the 1 hand cost.

It's the heoric skill, and other I was using with Escher now I can't remember , i had to erase that warband because of a bug, plus you can be buffed to spend less AP points and stack more Bleeds since 1h weapons with both can perform more attack per AP point spent. With dual wield melee in 1 turn attack I got 30 stacks of bleeds on a guy for a total of 80damage next activation, if I remember correctly. I have to be in the game to tell you how i did it, now I don't have it on this machine.

Woudl appreciate it if oyu coudl look it up later and post it here :)

Especialy since I am runnign an Escher gang myself right now, and the passive 1 hand bonsues are to good to pass up on imo.

[melkathi]

Other than the Leader Heroic the benefits I am trying to come up with are:

Combining different weapon effects: for example a sword in one hadn for the Bleed and a spud jacker in the other for a better chance to Stun. By dualwielding you may get both.

% Lower AP cost may result in a greater discount if it is on Next Attack only. Not sure if there is a percentage discount though in any situation or if they are all flat discounts.

[Avlaen]

Originally posted by FlameWar:

Originally posted by Kelset:

You can apply bleeds with some melee, you can still disengage and shoot and flee (which all this game is based upon unless you're on buff stacks to go in for the kill). You can have 2 different damage types to counter armor resistances (very situational). But yes, it's not optimal to have ranged + melee unless it's a backup equipment for ranged specialized characters that are about to get ganked. It's very situational, it also depends on the skills being used, well only on the skills used, and the buffs received. We might have some depth here, but it's largely obsolete when there's way more effective ways to get around this kind of issues.

Thanks for the reply, but I think oyu missed what I meant. I can udnerstand the ebenfits and drawbacks of having a 1-hand melee wepaon and a pistol at the same time. I am wondering if there is any benefit to dual wielding either 2 pistols OR 2 1-hand melee weapons.

Though yeah, havign two different wepaons against different reistsanced probbaly might be sligthly usable in higher levels where the enemy has grade 4 or 5 armor.

Say you have 45 ap you can do a double attack and then a half attack whereas a 2h would only attack once. thats the primary benefit.

Also for chainswords that can only attack 3 times before reloading, 2 chainswords lets you front load more damage.