Power and Chain weapons.

[Majere]

I'm increasingly growing deeply sceptical about both Power and Chain weapons. Both of them seem to give only marginal improvements over their mundane counterparts (10% precision here, a bit more stun there, or a little more damage and a DoT in the case of the Chainsword) but the 'ammo' requirement seems borderline ridiculous. The Power Maul is a notable exception in that it has a large 'clip', a significant bonus (90% Stun) and importantly only swings once.

The other two (Power and Chain swords) use two ammo per attack since they hit twice, and so need to be 'reloaded' almost every turn- in fact, my Leader is capable of running out her batteries twice in a good turn.

On her sword, get your minds out of the gutter.

It seems to me that, as Brawler specialised equipment, these weapons should actually be objectively 'better' than their mundane counterparts, rather than situational at best. At the moment I'm not at all convinced that's the case.

[mourningstar]

ya'll ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Melee Prowess on a goliath brawler makes the recharge make you do more than double attacks per round.

[Lead Paintchips]

Originally posted by Get Some!:

Melee in Necromunda is supposed to be brutal. You get somebody in close, they should carve through that sniper, no exceptions. They paid the price in getting close.

The problem that I see is that there's no real price to using melee with how much we can move. I can get into melee no problem and just wreck someone's day regardless of what melee I'm using as long as the character is specced for it. There isn't really a risk/reward when I can zoom my melee units 3/4 the length of the map to get into melee in one turn.

I'll admit I haven't played multiplayer yet, and haven't cranked up the difficulty because the extra hp that the AI gets doesn't appeal to me, so that might be coloring my perception of melee.

[Wibble the Obscure]

I do not know why only Deadeyes can use the Bolt Pistol, they would be a great weapon for other classes (Saboteur, looking at you) but if the DeadEye is not using Autogun and that Deadeye Active (where if you get a critical you get +X AP ) then you are wasting a slot.

As for the Chainsword and Powersword.
I can see why they are Brawler Specific, they are not really weapons anyone could just pick up and flail away with. As for their usefulness? Hmm... tough one. I like the Bleed from the Chainsaw for sure.
Honestly though i think Chainsaw and Powersword are too heavily nerfed... they should be horrific weapons to face - IMHO they should be rarer and more lethal but still Brawler specific.
Also, would love 2-handed Chain Axes!

[FlameWar]

Originally posted by Wibble the Obscure:

As for the Chainsword and Powersword.
I can see why they are Brawler Specific, they are not really weapons anyone could just pick up and flail away with. As for their usefulness? Hmm... tough one. I like the Bleed from the Chainsaw for sure.

Honestly, while you might have a point for the chainsword requiring more training/experience in melee fighting, the power sword is just a sword that cuts slightly better in the lore.
It's mainly a sword with an energy field aroudn the blade to make it cut better/easier, and penetrate armor better. But for most purposes it's not really different from a normal good sword, except that it doesn't blunt.

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by Majere:

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

I dont think they should be "better weapons" than the others, just different(sidegrades, if you will). And it seems like they have hit that pretty well.
- Power Swords have better hit precision, stun chance and armor penetration, but lower initiative, crit chance and base damage(and uses ammo), making them overall better against high armor targets than standard swords of the same tier.
- Power Mauls have much better stun chance than Spud-Jackers, but slightly worse base damage and uses ammo.
- Chainswords have better base damage and adds bleed, and has similar stun, crit and precision to a standard sword, but worse initiative and uses ammo(they are definately the worst for leaders and others that focus on multiple attacks per turn). This makes them fairly powerful on non-leader brawlers that focus on charges or brawlers that mixes ranged and melee attacks(alternatively, you can dualwield them, and simply use them one at the time. That would give you 6 attacks per round).

If something should be changed(and I am not sure about that to be honest), I think a better solution to power and chain weapons would be to use reliability rather than "ammo". That way you can counteract it with Anointed(and killing the enemy Lay-mechanic will hamper the enemy "flow" so to speak).
That or they need to increase the ammo count on some of the weapons, but I dont really like that solution.

They should be the better choice because they're class-locked. If they weren't, it'd be fine for them to be sidegrades however much that might annoy the 40k purist in me (which is still dealing with Lascannons and Autocannons not atomising people in one shot). I think I'd be happy enough, just, with the ammo limit being either ditched entirely or significantly raised, but it's certainly out of whack as it stands.

But they are slightly stronger. Did you not read my summary?
Especially against high armor targets. They also just have some additional conditions that you need to manage.
If anything, you could consider them more specialized than the weapons that everyone has access to.

[Helldiver]

There's also a virtue (or talent?) that reduces reload AP by -5 making it practically free.

I would be happy if Chainswords were 8/8 rather than 6/6. Would allow me to charge and heroic, or heroic and chain hit at least and give me more options.

I was so happy to finally find a Tier 5 Power Sword for my leader, only to discover it hit like a nerf bat. Despite high strength (25) and melee prowess (23), I'm still seeing tons of blue numbers/glances although I'm working up accuracy (16) to improve the criticals. 10/10 is fine on the power sword but it just doesn't feel as threatening or imposing as what I recall from the lore.

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by Scout:

Have to agree with OP. At least where I am, with a 5k+ rated Goliath Gang with a 25 STR Brawler leader who's prone to using Delay, Slaught, and Roidstimms... he's better off with a Brute Cleaver he doesn't have to recharge every time he turns around.

There's probably any number of ways it could be adjusted, and I wouldn't venture to say which is 'right,' but I do know that all other things (like tier) being equal - a chainsword ought to feel objectively better than a regular sword. The advantage to the regular sword should be that it is cheaper and easier to find/replace. At least in the IP this is based on, the two aren't meant to compete. The chainsword is flat out better, and the power sword more so, but they are also progressively harder to get hold of and more expensive.

And the problem is... what exactly? It is your decision to use the Brute Cleaver on a Brawler Leader.
On a regular Brawler, a Power Maul(stun), Powersword(balanced) or Chainsword will work just fine. Or on a Brawler Leader who doesnt focus on maximized attacks, but maximize Orders or defenses.

The Brute Cleaver has terrible Precision and stun chance(the worst of all 1-handed melee weapons). A Leader can pull it off, because they can potentially have a higher amount of attacks than a regular Brawler and higher base stats to compensate for the negatives.

In this game, the Chainsword, Power Maul and Power Sword ARE better at what they do(better overall damage and stun chances compared to the non-brawler weaponry vs high armored targets). They just have a restriction to them(being ammo), so that they dont become an easy default.

[Voronyx]

Brawler weapons with ammo are great because of being able to combo reloading with Melee Prowess passive discounting the next attack by half. Turn that 40 ap skill into 20+5 reload, then do it again. Completely ditched 2h weapons when I found this combo.

[glenn3e]

If you have ‘calm’ they are free. Otherwise the virtue would be useless for melee guys.