Is combat the same as tabletop game?

[Dweemish]

or did they "enhance" the mechanics like they did with Mordheim?

[Mogg]

Originally posted by melkathi:

Besides, the unbalanced trainwreck of the tabeltop is something I don't need transfered to the PC. (BS 2+ Van Saar, or the horror stories you hear about Corpse Grinders, compared to terrible Cl Escher who run at the drop of a hat)

No GW game is balanced, unless you play the exact same factions and both get apply the same RNG results post battle. At least that was how the old game was like. I didn't mind it so much. I preferred the Ratskins due to their cheese most of the time, although they suffered with gear compared to all other factions.
You play the new game? I'm keep on trying it out at some point, once Ratskins, Scavvies and Spyra come back.

[RodHull]

Originally posted by melkathi:

Originally posted by RodHull:

Thanks I was genuinely curious didn't doubt it existed I just couldn't find it, all that was coming up under my searches was old references to outdated and new versions of the TT game and very vague mentions of this in the gaming press.

I mean it when I say that it is a lot easier to find things when you know what you are looking for :)


What I like about Necromunda is the setting, so I am not too worried if they change gameplay, as long as the atmosphere is right. Besides, the unbalanced trainwreck of the tabeltop is something I don't need transfered to the PC. (BS 2+ Van Saar, or the horror stories you hear about Corpse Grinders, compared to terrible Cl Escher who run at the drop of a hat)

I never played beyond the 6 original gangs, none of the newer stuff they added so cant speak for any of that. I always found those original 6 fairly well balanced personally. I used to wreck my friends VS with my Goliath gang

[melkathi]

Did your Goliath spam grenade launchers? That is what made them strong for a while in the new meta. Otherwise, especially since the hardcover rulebook prohibits consolidating into melee, close combat is terrible, and any Van Saar who isn't above cheesing can kill any gang that doesn't get silly lucky just by hardly ever having to roll above a 2 to hit.

[RodHull]

Originally posted by melkathi:

Did your Goliath spam grenade launchers? That is what made them strong for a while in the new meta. Otherwise, especially since the hardcover rulebook prohibits consolidating into melee, close combat is terrible, and any Van Saar who isn't above cheesing can kill any gang that doesn't get silly lucky just by hardly ever having to roll above a 2 to hit.

It was so long ago honestly the details have escaped me, but I remember it was mainly due to tactical positioning. Not sure on the new rules but old rules meant VS had roughly half or less the amount of units on the field so any gang that out manoeuvres them and get into close and melee range can beat them. And I was always pretty good at thinking outside the box and doing just that.

[Mogg]

Originally posted by RodHull:

It was so long ago honestly the details have escaped me, but I remember it was mainly due to tactical positioning. Not sure on the new rules but old rules meant VS had roughly half or less the amount of units on the field so any gang that out manoeuvres them and get into close and melee range can beat them. And I was always pretty good at thinking outside the box and doing just that.

Why would they field less units? How many you could field on the table depends on the scenario that gets played. All core game gangs have the same costs, stats and gear, rules, with the only difference being skills concerning which are more likely to be acquired.
Only Outlanders (which was the only expansion for the game) had diverse gangs: specific gear roster they must conform to, differeing costs, unique rules, etc.

[RodHull]

Originally posted by Mogg:

Originally posted by RodHull:

It was so long ago honestly the details have escaped me, but I remember it was mainly due to tactical positioning. Not sure on the new rules but old rules meant VS had roughly half or less the amount of units on the field so any gang that out manoeuvres them and get into close and melee range can beat them. And I was always pretty good at thinking outside the box and doing just that.

Why would they field less units? How many you could field on the table depends on the scenario that gets played. All core game gangs have the same costs, stats and gear, rules, with the only difference being skills concerning which are more likely to be acquired.
Only Outlanders (which was the only expansion for the game) had diverse gangs: specific gear roster they must conform to, differeing costs, unique rules, etc.

Not sure what version we played then, I mean my memory is crap and it was over 30 years ago but i recall one gang having more expensive start roster but superior gear and stats (basically functioning the same as say elves in BB) perhaps I have remembered it entirely wrong though, thats a definite possibility.

[Mogg]

Originally posted by RodHull:

Not sure what version we played then, I mean my memory is crap and it was over 30 years ago but i recall one gang having more expensive start roster but superior gear and stats (basically functioning the same as say elves in BB) perhaps I have remembered it entirely wrong though, thats a definite possibility.

Wiki has Confrontation listed as Necromunda's "prequel" for some odd reason, but I only know of the original Necromunda. I know there were a series of books released for the game that I think may have added optional material which I never got to see. Not meaning White Dwarf magazines, although these did add new scenarios to the mix and campaign ideas. Perhaps those sort of updated the base game to give the various core gangs some more personality.
I've seen a lot of homebrew rules back in the day to make each core gang different so they aren't just carbon of copies of each other.
One of the reasons Outlanders was so nice was each gang within that expansion wasn't just another copy of the original few. Scavvies, Redemptionists, Ratskins and Spyra. New rules specific to them, different types of gang members some not even having an equivalent to any other, and gear loadouts exclusive to them/

[shadowlurker]

Probably not, same as Mordheim CotD. Which isn't a bad thing. If I want to play with TT rules, I'll just play TT Necromunda.

[Balgin Stondraeg]

Originally posted by Mogg:

Originally posted by RodHull:

Not sure what version we played then, I mean my memory is crap and it was over 30 years ago but i recall one gang having more expensive start roster but superior gear and stats (basically functioning the same as say elves in BB) perhaps I have remembered it entirely wrong though, thats a definite possibility.

Wiki has Confrontation listed as Necromunda's "prequel" for some odd reason, but I only know of the original Necromunda.

Conrontation was percentile. All rolls were d100. I still have the magazines somewhere. It had 3 stats. Initiative, Combat Skill & Ballistic Skill. Everything else was assumed to be identical for all gangers. It had activation in initiative order and, during an activation, you'd get 2 actions (walk, shoot, duck for cover, open a door, throw a grenade, fight etc). Basically anything that felt like it should be a separate action was an action. The new version of Necromunda borrows heavily from this although it's gone to alternate activation instead of fixed initiative order.

The first Necromunda big box release about 4 years later used the 40k 2nd edition rules set with d66 tables for extra stuff between matches. This is the version that was well known and well supported.

The new Necromunda uses the new "Age of Sigmar'd" 40k rules with alternate activation and 2 actions per activation similar to the original Confrontation. It uses cards (similar to the stat cards GW used to supply on the back of unit boxes in the 80's and inside boxes for about 2-3 years in the late 90's before they stopped doing stat cards for about .... 15 years).

[Balgin Stondraeg]

Originally posted by RodHull:

Not sure what version we played then, I mean my memory is crap and it was over 30 years ago but i recall one gang having more expensive start roster but superior gear and stats (basically functioning the same as say elves in BB) perhaps I have remembered it entirely wrong though, thats a definite possibility.

That would have been 2nd edition (Necromunda, as opposed to Confrontation). In Confrontation all gangs were created equal. In Necromunda (90's edition) some gangs (Spyrers) were considerably more expensive with a lower model count than others.

[RodHull]

Originally posted by Balgin Stondraeg:

Originally posted by RodHull:

Not sure what version we played then, I mean my memory is crap and it was over 30 years ago but i recall one gang having more expensive start roster but superior gear and stats (basically functioning the same as say elves in BB) perhaps I have remembered it entirely wrong though, thats a definite possibility.

That would have been 2nd edition (Necromunda, as opposed to Confrontation). In Confrontation all gangs were created equal. In Necromunda (90's edition) some gangs (Spyrers) were considerably more expensive with a lower model count than others.

Yeah it must have been that one I remember it was the 90s for sure (that whole decade gets a bit hazy as I was a teenager lol) and I remember it was the boxed version with the included scenery. I always remembered it as VS being the gang that had higher unit costs and lower unit count but it seems likely it was the spyrers and I just recalled it wrongly.

[Balgin Stondraeg]

Van Saar might have been a little bit more expensive. Spyrers were so expensive that you'd literally only have 3-5 people in your gang.

[RodHull]

Originally posted by Balgin Stondraeg:

Van Saar might have been a little bit more expensive. Spyrers were so expensive that you'd literally only have 3-5 people in your gang.

Yes that sounds like the ones, my mate played them he always had less units but they functioned better. It was a bit like say Elves in BB in terms of how they related to the other gangs.

[melkathi]

You are talking the 90s version. Things are very different now. Van Saar and Corpse Grinders are silly.

I don't even want to know what Spyrers would look like if they let JTY write the rules for them (if he liked them).
The guy writing the current Necro rules honestly argued on Facebook that it is perfectly balanced because he uses the same excel sheet he uses to balance BloodBowl teams (he deleted the comment and I forgot to grab a screenshot :( )

[Mogg]

Originally posted by RodHull:

Yeah it must have been that one I remember it was the 90s for sure (that whole decade gets a bit hazy as I was a teenager lol) and I remember it was the boxed version with the included scenery. I always remembered it as VS being the gang that had higher unit costs and lower unit count but it seems likely it was the spyrers and I just recalled it wrongly.

Spyrer were the most unique of all gangs being basically 3-5 models but super teched out. Van Saar were just a regular gang. You had me confused when you said it was Van Saar you played as and suffered such limitations.
Spyrer can't even be considered a proper gang considering how they operate. They make for really sweet 'Predator' type opponents.There was an awesome alternate Ambush scenario specifically Spyrer as the target inside one of the White Dwarf magazines.

Originally posted by melkathi:

Things are very different now. Van Saar and Corpse Grinders are silly.

I don't even want to know what Spyrers would look like if they let JTY write the rules for them (if he liked them).
The guy writing the current Necro rules honestly argued on Facebook that it is perfectly balanced because he uses the same excel sheet he uses to balance BloodBowl teams (he deleted the comment and I forgot to grab a screenshot :( )

lol, BloodBowl balanced??? Bwahahaha! Only played it on PC but those were basically the board game rules anyway and balanced it is not unless you play versus the same race.
The first Necromunda was as about as balanced as one could get (only including the core box contents). The minor unbalancing stems from the likeliness of getting good skill combos which only crops up after several games.

So is it safe to say the new version of Necromunda is garbage?